General Chat / Official NBA 2005 Playoffs Thread

how 'bout them Knicks... Eh?

how 'bout them Knicks... Eh?

and every other team in the Atlantic conference

It took 51 games, but the Lakers FINALLY have a three game winning streak!!!

Also, Ed's kicking himself cuz the Kings sent Webber away for three jobbers. I mean nobodies.

The real tough part for me is Corliss Williamson. Not that long ago he was the "powerhouse" of our offense. We don't want to go back to those days.

WOW. A TON of trades!

http://www.nba.com/n...dline_2005.html

Big Deals Go Down Before Deadline
C-Webb a Sixer? Baron by the Bay? 'Toine back in Boston? Thursday's trade deadline saw all of these moves and more.

The trading started late Wednesday when Philadelphia acquired five-time All-Star Chris Webber from Sacramento for Brian Skinner, Kenny Thomas and Corliss Williamson. The deal gives the Sixers some lift as they head into the stretch run neck-and-neck with the Celtics for the lead in the Atlantic.

Philadelphia GM Billy King is also excited about the Webber deal because he thinks it will help the team's talented, young core to grow.

"I think, the way we play, it will allow our young guys to develop more, because now you've got a big guy who can make passes and hit the jump shot," King told Sixers.com.

Philadelphia wasn't done dealing, however, and sent Glenn Robinson to New Orleans for Jamal Mashburn and Rodney Rogers.

Boston also made some moves of their own on Thursday. First, they sent Jiri Welsch to the Cavaliers for a first-round pick in 2007. Then, they brought Antoine Walker back to Beantown by sending Gary Payton, Tom Gugliotta, Michael Stewart and a future first-round pick to Atlanta. Walker is averaging 20.4 points, 9.4 rebounds and 3.7 assists per game so far this season.

In the West, standout point guard Baron Davis was sent from New Orleans to Golden State for Speedy Claxton and Dale Davis. Although Davis has been hampered by injuries this season, Warriors Executive Vice President of Basketball Operations Chris Mullin believes the move gives his team high hopes for the future.

“We're thrilled to be able to acquire a proven All-Star like Baron Davis,” Mullin told Warriors.com. “He ranks among the best point guards in the NBA and we feel that he will be a tremendous addition to our roster – not only with what he brings to the table on his own, but also what he can provide to the continued development of our team.”

Meanwhile, in Dallas, the Mavericks brought versatile forward Keith Van Horn to Texas from Milwaukee. Mavericks President of Basketball Operations Donnie Nelson thinks the move will give Dallas more flexibility on offense.

"We are excited to bring Keith Van Horn to Dallas," Nelson told Mavericks.com. "Keith’s versatility, experience and shooting ability were the factors for us to make this decision."

My Opinions

Trade: Nuggets get Eduardo Najera, Luis Flores and first round pick, Warriors get Nikoloz Tskitishvili and Rodney White
Who cares? Najera is a good defender and rebounder, Rodney White is a bad offensive player. I have no clue who Luis Flores is. Tskitishvili was Darko Milicic before Darko.
Winner: Denver

Trade: Knicks get Malik Rose and two first round picks (2005 Phoenix pick and 2006 San Antonio pick), Spurs get Nazr Mohammed and Jamison Brewer.
Obviously the Spurs felt the need to upgrade at the center position in order to compete better in the playoffs. They will need one with size, because when Duncan and Neserovic aren't on the floor at the same time, good centers go crazy (See YAO and SHAQ). Malik Rose is solid and is actually a better player than Nazr Mohammed, its just he was undersized. Bad move for the Knicks considering their thinness at the 5 spot.
Winner: San Antonio

Trade: Knicks get Maurice taylor, Rockets get Vin baker, Moochie Norris, Knicks 2006 second round pick
The Rockets were obviously looking to replace Maurice Taylor while getting a quality backup point gaurd, and thats what they did. Mo Taylor is an offensive weapon when healthy, his issue is his rebounding and defense. He'll be a solid off the bench scorer behind Kurt Thomas in NY. Vin Baker is a 5 minute a night guy at most in Houston, and Moochie probably won't get much play when Sura gets back. Shame, the Rockers must not really trust Andre Barret (Good rookie gaurd we have).
Winner: New York

Trade: Celtics get Antoine Walker, Hawks get Gary Payton, Tom Gugliotta, Michael Stewart, first round pick
LMAO. As bad as Antione Walker is, the Hawks did not get the value they needed to get from Boston. HELLO, Gary Payton is ancient! A Marcus Banks throw in or a Delonte West throw in would have made the value equal, considering that the Hawks need a PG (Tyronn Lue??? no). Antione won't work in Boston, he never did and he never will. Paul Pierce won't get the shots he used to with 'Tione jacking up 8 threes a game. Interesting fix at Point gaurd now...who starts? Banks or West?
Winner: Boston

Trade: Houston gets Mike James, Milwaukee gets Reece Gaines and 2006, 2007 2nd rounders
Houston gets a steal here. Milwaukee needs to ask for more than Reece Gaines to get Mike James, who actually is a good point guard. He fits well in a system with a big man like Yao and a playmaker like McGrady due to his shooting ability. He also helps the Rockets defensively and will allow them to guard the better PG's in the west until Sura gets back (ala Tony Parker and Steve Nash). Perhaps the Bucks should have asked for Mo Taylor... Who is the Buck's Power forward???
Winner: Houston

The BIG trades (Including Sacto's biggest mistake in franchise history) later.

WHAT THE HELL!!! Danny Ainge only ran Toine right out of Boston the first time, what does he want him back for now? in fact i think that if Ainge hadnt got rid of Toine, then his presence on the team would have kept Paul Pierce from turning into the selfish egomaniac that he is today. the deal helps the Celtics, but Ainge is probably just going to dump Walker at the end of the year again, making this trade a big waste of time anyways. I can only hope Ainge gets some sense knocked into him and at least offers Walker a contract extension.

Tell me about it. I think everyone's laughing about that deal.

Maybe Ainge wanted to steal some thunder back from the Sox and Pats. Except he's gonna get hammered.

I hope Ainge gets laughed out of town. I place blame solely on him as to why the Celtics have been underachieving during his tenure.

Ugghhh my Kings what have you done!!! How could you possibly trade one of your best players (and others) for a bunch of nobodies? Wow, the Kings are taking a plunge now. Tradin Christie, Divac, AND Webber in the same year =/

Toine got 24 points and 10 rebounds in his first game as a Celtic again. he looked like he did back in his prime Celtic days a few years ago. promising.

Spurs did a great thing by getting rid of Rose's contract. The fans seem pretty upset here and the local media is making it some sad story, but I think Nazr Mohammad will help the Spurs a lot. So I like the trade.

As for some of the other trades, I don't understand why Dallas went for Keith Van Horn. Shooting the ball is not their problem and do they go and do...trade for a shooter. Not a good move in my opinion. I think Houston made some good trades (getting a point guard and getting ride of Mo Taylor's contract). I'm not sure what the Knicks are doing.

Oh and Philly...good job.

Now my opinion ont he big trades....

Trade: Warriors get Baron Davis, Hornets get Speedy Claxton, Dale Davis
Im now convinced that the Hornets must want to lose. I can understand dealing Baron Davis, as I am sure he was unhappy in NO. But getting Dale Davis (OLD) and Speedy Claxton (Decent at best) for a top 5 Point Gaurd in the league? No good. The Warriors of MANY players that they could have asked for. Throw in Troy Murphy, maybe even Jason Richardson (probably would not have flown with Mullin tho). Pick up Adonle Foyle as a throw in, do something! The value that the Warriors got for Davis is just appaling, and this ranks up there with one of the worst trades ever.
Winner: Warriors

Trade: Mavs get Keith Van Horn, Bucks get Alan Henderson, Calvin Booth and cash
Heh, typical mark Cuban. Trading defense for offensive power. Not only did the Mavs get a decent player, they now have a playing time issue. How will you incorporate Can Horn into the lineup? Bench Michael Finley, not play Jerry Stackhouse? Ignore Josh Howard and Marquis Daniels? There is NO room for Van Horn on this team. Dallas traded away solid rebounding in Booth and Henderson and left them with Shawn Bradley as the only backup for Dampier. Tisk Tisk. Dallas will eventually learn, they need defense and rebounding to win a title. Even still, they got the better value.
Winner: Dallas

Cut: Sixers waive Kedrick Brown
Kedrick who ?

Trade: New Orleans gets Glenn Robinson, Philly gets Jamal Mashburn and Rodney Rogers
If Jamal Mashburn was healthy, this would have been huge for the Sixers. Unfortunately, his bum knee will probably force him to retire soon. Rodney Rogers is a big body that can nail the three, so hes a nice fit with Webber and Iverson who will recieve double teams. They needed to get Big Dog out of the picture, so this was a decent trade. As far as Robinson goes, when he does play hes great, but until he does the Hornets are in a WORLD of hurt. The Hornets got the best of this one though (If he plays mind you).
Winner: Hornets

Trade: Cleveland gets Jiri Welsch, Boston gets 2007 first round pick
Bah, another foreign player with no game whatsoever. I would only assume that Cleveland would use this guy sparingly, as they have a nice core of bench players that work well with Bron. A first round pick is always good, maybe Boston can add some more young talent to their raw roster.
Winner: Boston

[b]Trade: Sixers trade Brian Skinner, Kenny Thomas and Corliss Williamson to Kings for Chris Webber, Matt Barnes and Michael Bradley.[b/]
Boy, if I was a fan of the Kings I would be in revolt. Look, Chris Webber is an All-Star, Top 5 Power Forward, and a borderline superstar. This would be the equivalent of Houston trading Yao Ming for Samuel Dalembert and Kyle Korver.... ITS IDIOTIC! The Kings could have found MUCH more talent for Chris Webber. Send him to Chicago for Tyson Chandler and Chris Duhon. Throw him to Houston for Maurice Taylor, David Wesley, and maybe Scott Padgett. ANY deal is better than what they offered Philly. Kenny Thomas is decent, but damn hes not nearly enough to equal half of what Chris Webber does for a team. Brian Skinner??? He sucks. Corliss Williamson??? Hes a modest scorer at best. And not to mention that Matt Barnes could actually play! Goodness I hope the Kings do something stellar in the off-season to fix this boo-boo.
Winner: Philly



Here are my new playoff predictions...

EASTERN CONFERENCE

1) Miami (55 - 27)
2) Detroit (51 - 31)
3) Philadelphia (44 - 38)
4) Cleveland (50 - 32)
5) Washington (49 - 33)
6) Indiana (46 - 36)
7) Orlando (45 - 37)
Chicago (44 - 38)



WESTERN CONFERENCE

1) San Antonio (64 - 18)
2) Pheonix (64 - 18)
3) Seattle (57 - 25)
4) Dallas (57 - 25)
5) Houston (50 - 32)
6) Memphis (48 - 34)
7) Sacramento (47 - 35)
Minnesota (45 - 37)

As a Kings fan I must get in on this. The National media is really blasting the Kings on this trade, but the local media really understands what this deal was about. To put it simply, Chris Webber is a hindrence and a cancer to the team we have right now. His "me first" attitude has kept the future nucleus (Bibby, Peja, and Miller) from succeding. The deal was all about getting selfish damaged goods out of Sacramento for anyone who would take him. His numbers this year are really good, maybe even great, but his game no longer fits into the style of play here in Sacramento. Philly gets one of the most talented offensive players in the leauge but they get a power forward who can't move lateraly, play defense, or play on the low block. In return we get some big bodies and depth (which is what the whole trade was about) and I think Kenny Thomas has some potential here on a team that refuses to rebound. It may sound funny but I think once all these new pieces are in place and Adelman has time to practice and gameplan, then you will see that this trade wasn't as bad as everyone is makeing it out to be. Besides, when was the last time Jeff Petrie let us down here in Sac town?

Boy, if I was a fan of the Kings I would be in revolt.

Im pretty mad about it myself, but im becoming more understaning. He was definatly one of the greatest in the league, but he was weakening the Kings in a couple of ways.
-Money was a big issue here. Webber wanted a lot of it, but the Kings said no.
-Ever since Webber's major knee injury about 2-3 years ago, he's been slipping a little.

Memphis?! You're picking Memphis to finish above Sacramento? I was shocked and appalled when I first read about the trade too but give me a break. They didn't get that much worse.

And the more I think about it, the trade isn't as horrible as it seems at first (much like those Oakland trades). Yeah everyone respects the big names, but you've got to look at the facts too. No question they didn't get equal value for (arguably) the third best all-around PF in the league right now. But then, he does seem to be playing way above himself right now. I love the guy, he has the winning attitude and he loves Sacramento, but his game was not helping the team. He shoots too much. Some games he makes a whole lot and some games he doesn't. Meanwhile he clearly can't play defense (aside from defensive rebounds and poke away steals). None of which makes it excuseable to trade an All Star triple-double threat for three bench players - but there's a lot of details that make sense here. Peja plays better when he's unquestionably the primary offensive weapon, which he is now. It doesn't matter if they triple team him, he's a catch and shoot guy anyway and with the Kings offense, they're going to get him the ball if they keep moving it across the court. That's the trouble with Webb, he'll make nice passes to cutters but he likes to hold the ball. The new guys do bring in toughness and rebounding which we haven't really had off the bench for some time. I guess the hope is that one or more of them can be packaged to bring in a respectable starter at PF. Or at season's end, possibly at SG too. I figure BJax is leaving no matter what, though with all the injuries, he may not get what he's hoping for elsewhere. Peja is still here for another year if the Kings exercise the option, it's not up to him. Mobley's probably leaving - especially now. So that leaves us with no PF, no SG and a whole bunch of bench players with midsize contracts to deal with. And there's some decent FA's on the market this year which could fit. Larry Hughes? I don't see Ray Allen or Michael Redd signing here, they'll want too much money, but there's quality guys out there who would make for a nice starting 5. (PS - We DO NOT want Antoine Walker) Some kind of deal for Theo Ratliff doesn't sound insane. I guess on the one hand, this move could be taken as a sign that the franchise is now in decline, but then it does open spots for guys in the starting lineup which there hasn't really been for a couple seasons and the guys they'll be playing with, Peja Brad and Bibby, are all All-Star caliber players. And it's a proven offensive system which seems to make guys better. If the money is there and (more importantly) the desire to spend it is there, it could be an attractive situation. No question this deal puts the Kings in a rebuilding mode, but did anyone really think they were ready to make a run at the Finals in their current state? Better to rebuild sooner rather than later. Chris Webber was not the future of this team. I know we all thought he would bring more in return, but the point is, now was the time to move him so any trade is better than no trade.

[QUOTE]Memphis?! You're picking Memphis to finish above Sacramento? I was shocked and appalled when I first read about the trade too but give me a break. They didn't get that much worse.[QUOTE]

Ed, Memphis and Houston are both better than Sacto without Webber, and Sacto doesn't have a gigantic lead over either. Dont be angry that youll get San Antonio or Pheonix in round 1

I'm not angry, just amused. Memphis is terrible. Houston I can see, they're playing better. They might pass us. But I laugh at the thought of Memphis. Oh yeah and since the trade, 2-0. Against Webber's new digs and against Washington (a banged up Washington sure, but they've still got 2 All-Stars to our 0). Also, we're rebounding a lot better, predictably. And we're still playing without Peja. A lot can happen between now and the end of the season. And Phoenix isn't that tough. They only seem tough to teams whithout 100+ ppg of offense. But they play no defense. They're highly beatable. The Spurs however, are tough, but it's not like anyone else is going to beat them either so I don't feel bad. And Tony Parker and Manu Ginobli are both overrated. There's a lot of guys like them around the league who don't get as much credit cause they aren't playing with Tim Duncan. I'm still proud to be a Kings fan, and there's reason to think we're going to get better now that we aren't paying Webber a bazillion dollars to slow down the offense. It wasn't a fair trade, but that doesn't necessarily mean we got worse. And come to think of it, putting Minnesota finishing that close to us is an insult. They deserve no bit of credit whatsoever. What a sorry franchise. I hope the Lakers knock them out. And this coming from a Kings fan.

Yup I agree with Ed. The Kings arent going to be hurting too much from Webber's trade. He was hurting the Kings more than helping, one because of his injury and two because he was asking for way to much money. The Kings were hurt more when they lost Christie than Webber, because atleast Christie played Defense. This may seem like an unfair trade, but the Kings rarely make bad trades, and they always seem to make the playoffs. On top of that, you said the Kings would finish 47-35 and right now they are 34-21. That would mean from now till the end of the season they will go 11-14. I just don't see that happening.

I actually may have to rescind that statement, because I though the Kings had a tougher schedule. They should be able to go .500 or better (SHOULD, but i think theyll start to miss Webber).

And Ed, don't sleep on Memphis. They just beat San Antonio at home and have an incredibly deep team. From 1 to 5 they are just as good as your Kings without Chris Webber. Bibby is a bit better than Jason Williams, Cutinno Mobley and Bonzi Wells are as good as one another, Peja would have to deal with Posey's defense, nobody on your team can gaurd Pau Gasol, and Lorenzen Wright is a double double threat. If your Kings and Memphis met in the playoffs, it would be very hard for me to pick Sacto (Considering your playoff woes of the past). Without Chris Webber Sacto is not a better team, and you all will find this out when you square off against a team with a good 4 or 5.