General Chat / Decision 2004(for USA anyway..)

Geez... he has such an amazingly warped spin on how he's "led these past years in greatness." Honor to America? Nope. Justice to the enemy? Barely. Rebuilding the economy? In your dreams.

Ah well... that's politics.

You guys realize that the rest of the world is stunned that this guy got re-elected. I think the fact that D.C. voted 90% Kerry and 9% Bush is as telling as any stat I've seen from the election.

just got done talking to my friends in Middle East, each and every one of them are stunned Bush got re-elected.

wow.... i guess we don't mind the President is a dumbass, because everyone likes him because he's a "personabile man" or "Someone who is just like me".....

Well the world is not liking his re-election. 80% wanted Bush to go and 10% did not know. Especially the younger people hate him here, including me.

How can anyone seriously call Bush a dumbass? Sure sometimes he fumbles sentences, but doesn't everyone? The guy went to Yale, that's more than most people can say.

Anyways, everybody knows Bush screwed up on some stuff (some more than others), and my prediction is that he was very serious about the country having to be united now, and will change a lot to accomplish that. I expect to see a lot of change and improvement in the next four years.


Second time's a charm.

OWNAGE. Maybe we'll get more foul ups like the Kyoto agreement!

or the bio-weapons treaty
or the Geneva convention...
or the I.C.C...
or the star wars project...
or the A.B.M treaty...

Wow, I feel in a safer world. After all, the amount of terrorism in the world has gone down. (sic) Thanks Dubya, I owe you one.

And we have another 4 years of it.

Score.

I heard today that he has now caused more Iraqi civilian deaths than Saddam ever did (close to 100,000... or something). Thought that was interesting.


With a properly handled campaign, I think we could have gotten him thrown out easily. It's downright amazing, even, that we couldn't. Evidently most people don't respond to negative campaigning, I guess.

Saddam killed several million. I think around three.

World opinion be damned. Nobody in the United States shoudl give a fuck what the rets of the world thinks. Only caring what the world thinks makes you the world's pawn.

World opinion be damned. Nobody in the United States shoudl give a fuck what the rets of the world thinks. Only caring what the world thinks makes you the world's pawn.

That attitude right there sums up why your country is a target for terrorist attacks and why most of the world resents the U.S.A. You are a fucking arrogant ass if you really believe that.

Saddam killed several million. I think around three.

World opinion be damned. Nobody in the United States shoudl give a fuck what the rets of the world thinks. Only caring what the world thinks makes you the world's pawn.

I agree!
So, then, let us remove troops from Iraq immediately!

They are not America and therefore not our problem.

I can't wait for the EU to start throwing its weight around like it should.
A good 'ole slap across the face is what Washington needs.

For those of you pointing out that a majority of DC voted Kerry, let me point something else out to you. I may sound like a racist, but that's not my intent...a majority of people who actually live in DC are blacks...blacks have been known to 'generally' vote democrat. A majority of people who work for the government or companies that work with the government (i.e. the "Beltway Bandits") actually live outside DC in Maryland and Northern Virginia. Your point really isn't very valid...DC is just one little area, it's not, for a large part, the actual people who know and work for the government itself.

As for the argument Kerry has had about actually being in Vietnam while Bush was in the National Guard here at home, that doesn't mean a thing. If you really want to include that as an issue, Kerry came back home and became one of the most outspoken activists against the war. Sure, he won purple hearts and other medals, but he jsut shoved them in a bin rather than display them proudly. Hey, its fine to say, "We should leave," but Kerry completely left his fellow troops in the dust. Even if a soldier disagrees with the issue at hand, he still has the responsibility of supporting his peers still in service (my dad was one of them). As crazy as Zell Miller is or seems to be, he put it best as keynote speaker at the RNC:
"For it has been said so truthfully that it is the soldier, not the reporter, who has given us the freedom of the press.
It is the soldier, not the poet who has given us freedom of speech.
It is the soldier, not the agitator, who has given us the freedom to protest."

The argument Kerry has had on Bush's tax cuts only benefiting the rich. I don't see how this can be completely true, but that's beside the point. He's married and has come from money himself--his wife is the heir to Heinz--so how he can say he knows so much about the poor in the US, I don't know.

The issue of gay marraige...well, both essentialy oppose it, that's just about null and void. I myself couldn't care less either way.

For those of you worried about a draft, Kerry would be the most likely to issue it. Why might that be? Well, we're already too far into "fixing" Iraq that we can't just pull out now. If we did, the entire country would collapse all over again and the radical parties would take over...AGAIN. Kerry would want to finish the issue right away, so that would require MORE (yes MORE) troops in Iraq. We don't have the manpower to do what Kerry would most likely do with Iraq. All of this came from a clear Kerry supporter!

I have kept myself informed, and I know enough about much of the issues. I haven't been swayed by my parents hardly at all. Bush has done a lot of crap, but need I remind you all, so did Clinton and every president before him. We say that Saddam had to be removed; we put him there in the first place, and whoever was in power would be blamed for flagrantly bursting into Iraq with guns drawn. What people don't realize, and the news doesn't report, is a majority of Iraqis love the American troops for what they have done. We only hear about the smaller radical groups. We have found entire squadrons of MIG fighter jets hidden in underground hangars...we found the equipment to make WMDs. Oh, so we haven't found the actual WMDs...they had the tools, so who knows, they could have already been made and sold to the highest bidder in the black markets. The media only reports the negative minority...they forget the rest. It was amazing for me to see the difference between American news and Australian news (heck, Australia does quite a few things much better). Sure, there were the standard negative stories, but there were a heck of a lot more positive stories on the news too.

One thing I don't understand is how so many people still idolize the Kennedy family (including a majority of democrats, especially Clinton and Kerry...JFK!) because the entire family was corrupt: they worked with the mafia, made their money through rum-running during prohibition, completely botched a military operation we know as the Bay of Pigs, etc. The reason why Americans loved him at the time was majorly due to his youth and if I dare say it...'pretty face.' His leadership skills as President were average, not 'exceeding expectations.'

Although this post has been slanted toward a pro-Bush view, I could go on and on about Bush too. I feel, however, there has been enough anti-Bush already stated. So go ahead, flame me for defending Bush, but it's so easy for everyone to nay-say an incumbent and forget to question the other parties involved.

That attitude right there sums up why your country is a target for terrorist attacks and why most of the world resents the U.S.A.  You are a fucking arrogant ass if you really believe that.

Leader:
2 : a person who leads : as a : GUIDE, CONDUCTOR b (1) : a person who directs a military force or unit (2) : a person who has commanding authority or influence c (1) : the principal officer of a British political party (2) : a party member chosen to manage party activities in a legislative body (3) : such a party member presiding over the whole legislative body when the party constitutes a majority d (1) : CONDUCTOR c (2) : a first or principal performer of a group

Nowhere do I see pussy who bows to the UN.

The US is the target for terror because no matter who is attacked it is the US that will be engaged. The US defends many of the worlds nations without thanks.

Why are we in the UN if we are just going to make our own decisions regardless? If the rest of the world is going to be effected by our actions, shouldn't they have a say in it?


I don't know much about that factoid I posted earlier, honestly. Just heard it somewhere. Maybe it was limited to a certain time frame or something.

There is nothing wrong with hearing others opinions. But always following them is not the way to go.

Why is Kerry being called out as the savior in this election? He wasn't going to turn the US back into a utopia, or even make it THAT MUCH better. Sure, he wanted to raise taxes, I heard somewhere he wanted 60,000 more troops in Iraq too (whether or not thats true I don't know). I don't trust him because he fails to keep his sides on many issues, and seems to change his views.

Okay, Bush isn't very good either. I think we'll be okay if he actually listens to the UN and at least does something good with Iraq and doesn't invade any other countries unless completely necessary. You guys are talking like he cannot learn from mistakes. Any person can, I think since he wanted to mend with the Democrats, this could hopefully happen. If it doesn't, eh...

umm...

You guys realize that the rest of the world is stunned that this guy got re-elected.  I think the fact that D.C. voted 90% Kerry and 9% Bush is as telling as any stat I've seen from the election.

Just to let you know, DC is one of the poorest and most poverty stricken cities in our country... People in this economic standpoint usualy vote democrat because democrats appeal to their views (i.e. policies on welfare, etc.). The government's vote there would baisically cancel each other out. So yeah, that stat is somewhat misleading.

Anyways, other countries should be stunned, they only hear of our world policies, not all of our federal policies... But that's not saying much.

I did'nt say he was a dumbass, my friend said that back in Saudi Arabia.

I have never believed Bush Jr. was ever in charge, i've always been under the impression he was heavily influenced by his more experienced and more cunning (sp) co-workers (i forget the word).

I think personally Bush is somewhat stupid, not to the extent of calling him a flat out idiot, but his views on things are so one-sided and so Christian religious related that it is what makes him so appealing to people in America. people in America to me, whether Democrat or Republican usually don't have the other end of the story, or at least know it. granted i myself don't know everyhing. but if you ever saw my room back at home, by book case is filled with historical articles, non-fiction books like "How Israel Lost" which is a recent one, "Gay Marriage and why its good for America" another recent one, as well as "Protecting Morals" from an evengelical group i ran into when hanging with some of my more hard-core Evangi's. I try my best to keep with what is going on. I've even read Saddam Hussien's Biography, not just watch it on TV but the book on what is so far known about his life, and what leaves me stunned is about Saddam. is what is it that makes Saddam so hated to Americans? i mean, i can understand Israeli's and some Arabs hating him, but why Americans? it dosent add up, Saddam invades an Arab neighbor which ORIGINALLY was part of Iraq, but thanks to Imperial Britain for seperating them "Seperate and conquer". well anyways, i find Bush that way, thats why i think so many Americans find him "He's just like me so i'll vote for him" rather then actually look at the facts what his policies and actions have done. I do though don't mind if people voted for Bush and AGREED with what his ideas and policies are and believe they will in end work. I don't agree if you blindly vote for him, or vote cause he's personable, or vote cause he's better lookings, or (I hate this) He's a good Christian.

John Kerry, and John Edwards i think were perhaps the WEAKEST people from Caucus they could of picked, i listened to them, and neither one of them had anything interesting to say. I mean Wesly Clark, Howard Dean, even Joe Liberman would of been better choices. John Kerry was a good speaker, but his past on voting in the government is what greatly brought him down, especially his sort of indecisivness from his past. John Edwards really didn't do ANYTHING for N. Carolina, and he was pretty much a pretty boy, which i seriously regret politics have now crumpled to.

I think in the end, they were both crooks (Kerry and Bush), yet, i found more so that Bush's co-workers, Dick Cheney for instance, a corporate theif, who supports corporations over environment, environment that keeps this life on this planet alive.

I'm done ranting on this, for now.

but as a side note, i was going to originally vote Walt Brown (yes that is true) but he did not show up on any of the ballots, so i diverted my vote to Kerry, who i still think, would of been a smarter and at least a better leader.

oh by the Lazy Boy the world does matter, you don't have to be a pawn, you only feel like a pawn because you have to get off your throne and actually interact and deal with nations and their leaders. If you dont' get your way then you feel pawned, if you step over enough people (nations) you'll eventually be resented. and when America falls, (money is power and in the world market America IS losing) to the EU, China, and other Asian Tigers, as well a slight competition with India. Don't expect kindness from the world, and i also think if another Terrorist attack happens, a major one. nations will not be surprised nor do i think it'll be as "we'll pray for those innocent people" as it was in 9-11. the World was united with America after 9-11, after Iraq the world resents us more now then Bush first came in.

Giving into popular opinion is being a pawn when you do not agree. I love how all these other natiosn scream bloody murder over the US going to Iraq. The US became "imperiallistic", "toltalitarian", "militraristic", etc. Yet who the hell dolls out the most forgein aid each year? It isn't those compasition people in Europe. It is the United States. Wheter it be government subsidies or charity, the US just gives money away to other people. And not only to we give financial support we also give military support. If France or Germany was attacked it would not be their troops defending them, probably even if they crawl into the fetal position. It would be American troops defending these nations and pursuing their attackers. You can defend ever the attacks all you want as Americans being one sided. Byt he fact is these terrorists are scum bags that i would rather see as a smoldering pile of body parts. These are the type of people that invade a school and kill CHILDREN. How can anybody with a conscience support these types of acts. The school may have happened in Russia, but these fuckers all come from the same school thought. They do not want to get along with others. They want an Islamic fundamentalist world that is a sick and twisted perversion of what anybody should seek. People bitch all the fucking time about Born Again, Evengelical Christians, well at leats they pass out flyers and not shrapnel.

wow... where do you swing from that LazyBoy. just because you give out aid and chairity to other nations, does not give you the right to do whatever the hell you feel like. Its like you put a tag on the aid saying "Oh by the way don't bother us after this" it makes your aid seem like Shut Up Money/Food, It make me think more resentful if you believe that Nations ought to just shut up and have no say because we already do enough good for it. If France were to invade Haiti unilaterally because they believed the government was going to do something to it, and America was against it. It would be the same effect on France as it would be now with the U.S. in Iraq - so please stop the doublt sword talk.

Wanna talk about Terrorism? your idea of stoping them is idiotic, You can go and fight them and only serve their reasons for war against the west or you can find out where the hate comes and where to cut their support.

1. Stop meddling in Middle Eastern Affairs (as in supporting corrupted Islamic nations)
2. Stop Unilaterally support Israel with Military Arms.

If you do at least those two, you will... I gurantee cut the support of those terrorist groups against the U.S. right beneath their feet. Or you could just go into a bloody conflict of killing people, people of which you do not know if they are Terrorist or Innocent.

If you want to go into school shootings and killing children. Its hard for some people to accept the fact that an American bombing trying to kill a terrorist. the Terrorist forces can use these American accidents to their advantage.
http://www.democracy...03/12/08/152227
http://www.victoryne...niVillagers.htm

Here's a link of the results of America's results of the sanctions that brought Iraq's economy to its knee's despite it was a dictatorship, here are also a few photos of killed children by American missiles, at the bottom of is explicit pictures of children who were born severly deformed due to American use of depleted Uranium. of which one out of 5 Iraqi children born in the southern regions of Iraq has some sort of physical deformity. Iraqi officials had asked the United States during the U.N. inspections if they could get equipment to clean up the radioactive areas. U.S. though this would be some sort of use to MAKE nuclear weapons, how dare Saddam despite his ruthlessness could ever be a person who'd try to stop the children, a lot of which were his supporting Sunni's, dying of the radioactivity from the Gulf War I war.

http://www.theunjust..... pictures.htm

I'm saying this... America after stabelizing Iraq, must in all cases dis-engage from the Middle East, not because it would be a victory for terrorist forces but for the protection of the U.S.
We have done too much to the Middle East that it is near impossible to calming the U.S. if we would just leave. Europe has done the same years ago and now is a safer more peaceful place. America as belligerent it stands to its beliefs will fail and only open the wound of terrorism greater.

To think LazyBoy we can make all those scum bags into a bunch of ash only makes the fight worse. To think you can "destroy" terrorism is plainly arrogant, America has their own versions of terrorist we have had Columbine Shootings, we have also had Oklahoma Bombing, the Uno bomber. you can only greatly decrease it, by finding out what makes them crazy, you can greatly decrease it. religious frevor only amplifies the ambitions ten times over, by fixing the political mess by stopping our involvement in the Middle East you WILL destroy the religious nuts frevor with the people.