General Chat / New tape from Bin Laden

Here is a transcript from CNN of the new tape from Bin Laden.
http://www.cnn.com/2...ript/index.html

I just wanted to see what some of you think of what he had to say.

As for me, I'm not to sure what I think atm. I'll post my thoughts if I think of any.

I can't tell if it's an apology, claim to the 9/11 attacks, or an explanation of why he has done the things he has done.

In any case, he is making more sense than anything I've heard about our own politics. Problem is, he is the same one who organized a mass attack against America.

I don't know who is right. He hits on some points I (to my surprise) agreed with, and I'm just all confused right now.

Now i bet the Spaniards are happy. Al-Qaeda won't strike them.

I'm a little perplexed by this, he's talking way more reasonably then usually. I think Bush and Kerry truly are sort of spun by this. for the very fact that Osama is alive, and that he says everyone can calm down their will be no more attacks if we stop:

supporting Military Regimes : Iraq (used to be) Egypt, Syria
and Monarchies: Kuwait, Saudi Arabia, Qatar, UAE, Bahrain, Oman, and Yemen
Also stop supporting Israel.

i don't think for a fact America will do anything that he asked, I agree though with him, that America should have a more open foriegn policy like Canada or the Scandinavian nations do with the world. He's right though, no one from terrorist groups in the middle East has struck any of those nations.


Americans however are really stubborn, they want revenge for 9/11, and with a military like the U.S.'s they can achieve that. Think of it if were towers were burning in your nation, but you were powerless to gain vengence for what happened. you'd find a way. More or less, i think people here are blinded or have a sterotypical view of what the enemy is thinking and where did they get the anger. We'll blame the religion, the culture, society or the governemnt of our enemy before we accept we have done to them.

I say... meow

This can be interesting if looked at in the right and or wrong ways but Damn this is freakin like "Oly Shite"

Oh and By the way, has anyone noticed John Kerry's middle name starts with F.... He'd be the new JFK wtf.......

I don't get what's with all the crap. We all know that he's threatening us. What was he thinking when he bombed the twin towers for revenge? Also, Bin Laden obviously hasn't heard of stealth. If we had a more competent president, we wouldn't even be watching this tape.

wow... do you mean if we had a more competent leader, the live video feed wouldn't or shouldn't be aired? Mind i remind that just about all of Bin Laden's, Al-Qaeda, the Iraqi insurgents, video footage of Arafat and the Fatah movement, usually come from Al-Jazeera not American news outlets. Al Jazeera is the Arabian world new outlet, and they air every major event or word beign said by important people..


Also, have you no idea, that Osama hasn't been seen for almost over 2 years now. this is the first time he's shown his face in a LONG time.

the twin towers for revenge? seems logical, if you ever even bothered to look at American forign policy with the nations there, what the CIA has done there, its constant support of a militaristic-society Israel and such. It makes perfect sense why we got hit, failed forign policy, complete utter failure. just like our Public School systems but that is another issue all together.

Oh and By the way, has anyone noticed John Kerry's middle name starts with F.... He'd be the new JFK wtf.......   

Newsweek pointed this out back in...May or April I believe.

To be frank, I'd be more worried about Global Warming.

Yes, it's all about our support of Israel. Let's blame the Jews like everybody else has.

"Hence today I believe that I am acting in accordance with the will of the Almighty Creator: by defending myself against the Jew, I am fighting for the work of the Lord."

Yes, it's all about our support of Israel. Let's blame the Jews like everybody else has.

Heh.

Isreal is the biggest threat to world peace.

I think that because I'm a anti-semetic prick.

not blaming Jews LazyBoy, its all about the one sided support of 6 million people (whether jew or not) over 200 million in a region. Not to mention we also support some of the most oppressive leaders. we used to support the insepted Shah-N-Shah in Iran, we supported Saddam Hussien, we supported the past militaristic King of Jordan (he's dead now in the late 90's) the 20 year running President Hosni Mubarek of Egypt. so many things we do and support taht the general populace, the area where Terrorism thrives in the region resents us for not just support, a unilateral one at that, with Israel. but also for its dictators, Saddam killed and tortured thousands of Shiites, Shah-N-Shah made his countrymen poor as dirt and was as torturous as possible at the extent of making the Western nations happy with cheap oil that was until the Mullah's came.

In short, USA is still doing a grand fuck up job in the Middle East, why can't we just do what Europe does, say "Fuck off" and let them duke it out, the only we can do is make sure no nukes are thrown at each other. when it is done it is done.

It took all of one day for Israel to be attacked by the surrounding nations. And Israel has lost the support of the very body that created it.

If they are mad over our past support of Saddam then why do they hate us for getting rid of him? Shouldn't they be happy?

If this was revenge against our forgein policy then why did they attack civilians? An attack on the Pentagon would have been accepable. But their means involved civilians. They hide in home that they fill with children. These are not nice people that are just trying to be understood.

If we had a more competent president, we wouldn't even be watching this tape.

Are you suggesting that the president should have stopped the American public from seeing this video, or that its Bush's fault that Bin Laden isn't already dead? On either point, I'd love to hear your reasoning.

My reasoning is that we should have kept more troops in Afghanistan and not let Bin Laden slip away. That's all I was trying to point out.

wow.. have you even seen the destruction the middle east has taken as a count of us. look at the dead Iraqi civilians as a direct result of Shock and Awe campaign. oooo it was a cool light show. and those missiles probably did his those targets. but take this into account Baghdad is the about the size of L.A. imagine a city that never sleeps. and at the same imagine some guy with his friends driving past BMP or a Lion of Babylon tank on his way home to his mother and gets blown to bits. not to mention if those tanks were placed in residential zones. and don't tell me they were using them as a human sheild, you can twist it around and also say they were try to defend their cities. which is EXACTLY what we would do. American missles are smart no doubt about. and the mostly hit their targets, but think of the range of explosion and force those bombs make in a CITY. imagine it. the civilian count death toll alone. which is now at 15,000. 15,000! OMG and you cry over 3,000 well jeez. its war right? who cares right.

Why are they mad? Saddam is gone, yeah sure. now please leave. Americans are not going to be loved and kissed. even if you taken out their dictator. because its like this. and i'll put it in American form for ya. you (Iraqi/Arab people) are loving this girl (America) aight? this girl dumps her old boyfriend (Saddam), but turns out is still fucking with your worst enemy (Israel), the same guy who beat the shit out of your brother (Arab people) and stole his car (land). Wow... do you trust your girlfriend anymore? i don't think so, in fact i'd think you'd be so mad you'd think she's a whore and a bitch. even though she may have dropped her old boyfriend for you, is miniscule then her fucking the asshole who stole your bro's car.

I also think, its venting out all the anger the Arab world has with the U.S. at the cost of its own blood no doubt.

Why do they attack our civilians, just as we attack theirs. our bombs. despite hitting targets, may hit the wrong buidling based off of bad intelligence and send that message to the enemy. Our weapons are no less, I have to mention it, are being used the good ol' Israeli army, which rutinly blows up civilian areas. but oh no.. God forbid i say their wrong because you know... they PURPOSLY place children in places where they actually sleep. my.. well if i didn't know.. those darn terrorist their so cruel to their own people, because we all know their fighting to kill both their own women and children and their enemy. do you not see how absurd that sounds? I've lived in the middle east and i am in no way surprised to see why we got hit on 9/11. you have to give them the credit for having the balls and odacity of what they did and why. which to me makes perfect sense. i support neither. but i do now see this is a battle where even if you kill Osama and his people you only further push their cause. terrorist are in a sense the average joe, who lost his family due to American/Israel/UK weaponry, who lost his family to starvation due to America/UK sanctions, who lost his family because they were executed by a dictator who was propped and supported by American/UK.

the best strategy right now, is to withdraw support of Israel, and get the fuck out. leave it alone. the situation is too screwed up to even be repaired. stop kissing Saudi Arabia's ass for oil, and stop supporting a militaristic Israel. whatever the cost maybe for Israel, it must win its war on its terms, without the U.S. with U.S. support we only further the reasoning for the terroristic causes and thinking.

not nice people is no different from a guy who is sitting on his ass in some Destroyer hundreds of miles away firing off his salvo of Tomahawk.

Where was America, to help the Iraqi's when after Gulf War 1, Bush Sr. called on the Iraqi people to revolt against their dictator, and they did. but the Iraqi army quickly squashed the opposition. where was America, to insure democracy came to Iraq.

Um, wow Guardian you're just so clever. Yes, the army destroys people's houses (a move which I'm against btw) but you forgot to mention the other side. You think it's nice to come back from school and hear a terrorist blew up a bus full of little children? Well, no it isn't. And it happens every week or so. So yeah, shut the fuck up before you know the whole story. You're assuming we do all the bad shit, and that's why this all began. But hey, guess what? You're dead wrong. You know, I usually don't even bother defending any country but when I hear all this stupid shit with not evidence to back it up I just get pissed off.

And let me tell you a little story, back in 1947 the UN proposed two counries side by side. Some exteme palestinians (not everyone) didn't even care for the land they got, they just wanted Israel out. Guess what? They started on war. Israel never stole someone's "car", you're just too naive (sp?) to realise that. And btw, Israel isn't Iraq's worst enemy and the Palestinians aren't their "brothers". That's the biggest load of bs I've heard in a while. Iraq's worst enemy was democracy. You're just too blinded to see that.

Most of Iraq is not up in arms over us being there. The terrorists there are attcking Iraqi civilians. Why woudl they do that if they are on their side? Maybe because they are trying to intimidate the people into submitting to their will. If they were truely fighting for them they would only attack Americans and try to rally the supprot of the locals. The terrorists there don't even know who is in Iraq. That's why the took hostages demading their nations pull out when their nation wasn't even their to begin with.

On Israel, here is a question i would love for you to explain as a result of injustice. Why have NON ZIONIST Jews been deliberatly attacked? Areas known to be populated heavily by orthodox, non zionist Jews have been attacked. These are the very Jews that are against the state of Israel.

Oh, and I forgot to answer one of your questiosn earlier. Why is Europe not attacked? Because either way the United States will be engaged. If any European state that isn't actively involved was attacked the United States would give military aid. Why attack Europe when the brute strength will always come form the United States?

No Disney Freak, your wrong. look at this http://www.akhlah.co...ry_timeline.asp

in 1948 the state of Israel was born, out of its inspetion by the U.N, through the help of United Kingdom (which controlled the region at the time) proposed this land to be split, the land that of which was all Arab controlled. who is to come into your land, and tell you to get the hell out because we made a deal with these people, and were gonna give them a home.

Wanna see where the first terrorism began, as far Israel issue is concerned, okay here. http://www.voicesofp...g/massacres.htm
You think thats not supporting enough? okay, how about a little bit more modern for ya http://news.bbc.co.u...ast/2145267.stm
notice it says eight children were killed as well with the Hamas leader.
want more okay here
http://www.arabicnew...2003041011.html

Tell me if you want more, because i got plenty for you guys on Israel. you see the Palesitinian problem, because the Media is quick to point it out each and every day, if ever their is something Israel does to the palestinian people, masscering them or what not, God forbid it'd become actual pointed out news here.

Now Iraq, Iraq's worst enemy is democracy, no it isn't that's plain silly. and on a side note, if the Iraqis didn't think the Palestinians were their "brothers" then why did Iraq send in its armies to rid the Arab world of Israel? in 1973, the Yom Kippur War, Iraq sent forces to help in the cause. http://www.factmonst...qtimeline1.html
oh by the way, no one bothers to remember this, or cares. Iraq did try setting a democracy,
Britain at first installed a Saudi prince to be in charge of Iraq which ofcourse didn't work, then they Kassim took over as reigning dictator, when Baa'th Party killed Kassim, Al-Bakr takes over advocating democracy, at the same time killing all opposition. Colonal Aref makes the move and purges the government of all Baa'th Party members in the country, in for a true democracy. three years later Colonal Aref dies, and his brother (who happened to be vice president) takes the command. low and behold Baath Party comes back and kicks Aref's brother out. in a bloodless coup. Democracy can work, but not in the situation it is right now.

why have non-zionsit been attacked? well, think about it. did a white guy know the difference between a black slave and a free black slave? i don't think so. line up a bunch of southerners and pick who is a KKK member, you won't be able to know who is who. destinguishing people by ideas is a lot harder. could you imagine an enemy combatant coming to America and handing out survey's so they knew who not to kill? Even then, if they non-zionist, people who are against the state of Israel, what are they doing in Israel?

Disney Freak, YOU have you history screwed skewed, Arab nations were totally against an Israeli state. why is it any surprise when Israel was declared a nation, the next day they were at war with all the arab nations. what you said was a load of BS. the arab people didn't care about the land is a load of BS. What do you start with? what would you start with Disney Freak, these people have taken your homes, have gone all around the world to the top powers and got help, making any attempts by you futile. the terrorist attacks the Israeli factions have done to the Palestinian villages and such? what you expect them to sit down and "lets talk it out" in that type of situation? Israel fired off the first salvo as far as i care on that day when they attacked the King David Hotel on July 22, 1946, and low and behold two years before Israel became a state.

I'm not so much anti-Israeli, which sounds super contradictary based off of what i just said, but Israel is now in fact almost 50years old, it is in itself a true democracy, though heavily influenced by the Orthodox no doubt different then Evangelist here in the U.S., its people have had generation grow up in the state, it is a nation, and i cannot nor have the right to say it dosent have a right to exist. BUT i will point out, that they don't have the happy, "We won a Indepence war just like America" start up, they are just as bad Palestinian forces. doing nothing more then fighting over land.

Wanna talk "Well its all those Islamic Extremist trying to kill the Israel" hello? 'knock on head' what do you call alll those settlers taking over Palestinian lands?

No, Disney Freak i'm not assuming America or her allies started it all, the approach they take is what is wrong. You think i don't know the whole story? dude... i've been there, i've talked to Jews and Muslims, i've talked to people who are there!
want more links of Israeli killing children? want links of Israel targeting cities,
http://www.hrw.org/p...5/jenin0503.htm
http://www.tvnewslie...l_killings.html - a DVD no doubt also-lots of links also.
http://www.obv.org.u...t20021002a.html
http://www.telegraph...3/05/wmid05.xml

You know, what the Palestinians do to the Israelis right? your so fucking wise. you know the WHOLE story no don't you.

Face it the entire region is fucked up, (Israel and Palestine), the Palestinians need to understand that it cannot take over Israel, it can never do it. Despite whatever horrors and plane attacks Israel does the Palestinian peoples, they need to understand no.. their forced to live side by side with their Israeli neighbors. Israel needs to understand that it alone cannot take care of the problem, it acts right now as the occupier of West Bank and Gaza, but will not allow the U.N. or even let the U.S. take over the situation and help the Palestinians out. Israel cannot either continue to allow Settlers to take potshots at Palestinians, in THEIR lands, and be all surprised when Palestinians fight back, sending in the Israeli army to save a few trouble making religious zealots who think THEY are re-uniting Israel's land. I by the way, commend Sharon for having the balls - no - the odacity to pull out of Gaza, now its time to do the same in West Bank as well ( I don't know if he's doing it or not) bring the U.N. and peace keeping forces in to take care of the problem.

Iraq, well here's the death toll proof for ya http://www.iraqbodycount.net/

wow look at the database by the way, if you bother. and look at what the targets are at. why, and what weapons killed the Iraqi civilians. notice its police stations, and police patrols/convoy are targets as well. that is by no means a surprise because those police men, are working for "what is supposed to be this puppet/appointed government" yet are also at the whim to fight with the U.S. in hopes of using Iraqi's against Iraqis so that they won't fight. What i'm saying is to the Iraqi's insurgents it makes no difference if your Iraqi or not, it means, what side are you on. notice also MOST of the attacks are not on civilians. http://www.iraqbodycount.net/database/

digest that, and i'll give you my next rebuttal when your ready. I have plenty to support my reasons.
In the end, i'm saying this, you may point out on thing, i'll point out the other, the area is a total mess. total chaos. the only way to stop it is to let it go through without having the U.S. continue to meddle with it. no nation took over America forced America to adopt Democracy, no America learned it on its own. we should be assisting (secretly) pro-democratic movements in Egypt, Syria, Jordan and the Persian Gulf. not with bombs, bombing the enemy serves only their reasons to be in charge.

Please tell me if ever Sweden, or Holland done anything in the Middle East except perhaps purpose a U.N. peace treaties? Has Sweden gone out of its way, and tomahawked a village of suspected Terrorist, has Holland gone out of its way to support Israel with billions (or maybe millions in their case) in military hardware and military assistance as well as logistics. Not to mention have either nations helped any nation in the middle east gain nuclear technology. I know France has, Russia has as well, not too sure about Germany (About nuclear technology) and they themselves are in more danger from terrorists (Israeli or Arab) for supporting an A. Arab nation and B. supporting a corrupted Dictatorship that oppresses its people.
Spain, England, and don't let me forget Poland are in more danger then France, Russia and Germany. just for supporting the Iraq invasion, and what happened, on March 11, 2004 Spain gets hit with bombs on its trains systems as a result. It is more dangerous right now to be engaged in the region then it is to just keep out.

[quote]in 1948 the state of Israel was born, out of its inspetion by the U.N, through the help of United Kingdom (which controlled the region at the time) proposed this land to be split, the land that of which was all Arab controlled. who is to come into your land, and tell you to get the hell out because we made a deal with these people, and were gonna give them a home.
[/quote]
How was it all arab controlled? I know my history, it wasn't arab controlled.

Interesting articles you have there.
[quote]Mr Sharon - who reportedly gave his personal approval for the operation - expressed regret for the civilian deaths[/quote] This was in no way a terrorist attack. Wanna know the difference between this and a terrorist attack? When this happened, Israeli citizens spoke out against the killing of the civilians. On the other hand, go ahead and look at some extremist sites on the web. Countless threads express the happiness of these extremists who today celebrated the death of atleast 5 Israeli people. They celebrate death. (again, I speak only of the extreme groups).
Notice where that last article is coming from? Arab press. If I remember correctly it was proved to be an arab group who executed that. I don't remember all the details but I do know no group in Israel have fought yet with suicide bombings or murder.
[quote]oh by the way, no one bothers to remember this, or cares. Iraq did try setting a democracy,
Britain at first installed a Saudi prince to be in charge of Iraq which ofcourse didn't work, then they Kassim took over as reigning dictator, when Baa'th Party killed Kassim, Al-Bakr takes over advocating democracy, at the same time killing all opposition. [/quote]
Never knew that. Thanks for pointing that out.
[quote]Even then, if they non-zionist, people who are against the state of Israel, what are they doing in Israel?[/quote]
I believe I fit in under the term "non-zionist". If it's what I think it is, than I am one.(one that isn't strictly jewish?) Why am I in Israel? I'm not against this country (or any country for that matter). A "non-zionist" can exist here. Many people here aren't strictly religious but live here and aren't against the country.
Back to the point, even if they can't tell the difference between the two, it doesn't justify mass murder (same goes for the other side).
[quote]Disney Freak, YOU have you history screwed skewed, Arab nations were totally against an Israeli state. why is it any surprise when Israel was declared a nation, the next day they were at war with all the arab nations. what you said was a load of BS. the arab people didn't care about the land is a load of BS. What do you start with? what would you start with Disney Freak, these people have taken your homes, have gone all around the world to the top powers and got help, making any attempts by you futile. the terrorist attacks the Israeli factions have done to the Palestinian villages and such? what you expect them to sit down and "lets talk it out" in that type of situation?[/quote]
You missed my point. I was talking about the extreme palestinians. Of course the citizens who lived there cared for their home. But the same ones who opened fire were extremists.
[quote]they are just as bad Palestinian forces. doing nothing more then fighting over land.
[/quote]
I agree with that completely. To this day I fail to see the reason we fight over small pieces of land.
[quote]Wanna talk "Well its all those Islamic Extremist trying to kill the Israel" hello? 'knock on head' what do you call alll those settlers taking over Palestinian lands?
[/quote]
Those settlers are in the process of being moved as we speak.
[quote]dude... i've been there, i've talked to Jews and Muslims, i've talked to people who are there!
want more links of Israeli killing children? want links of Israel targeting cities,
[/quote]
Dude, I am a Jew (kinda anyway lol) and I've talked to Muslims aswell. Israel has killed too many children but I never justified that. I am sickened every time I hear something like that in the news.. But that still doesn't justify suicide bombings hurting innocent children who aren't even part of this fight.
[quote]Face it the entire region is fucked up, (Israel and Palestine), the Palestinians need to understand that it cannot take over Israel, it can never do it. Despite whatever horrors and plane attacks Israel does the Palestinian peoples, they need to understand no..  (etc)[/quote]
I agree. I would love to see the day when we live side by side in peace.
[quote]In the end, i'm saying this, you may point out on thing, i'll point out the other, the area is a total mess. total chaos. the only way to stop it is to let it go through without having the U.S. continue to meddle with it. no nation took over America forced America to adopt Democracy, no America learned it on its own.[/quote]
May I point out that while America learned on its own, it took Germany two wars to figure it out.
[quote]we should be assisting (secretly) pro-democratic movements in Egypt, Syria, Jordan and the Persian Gulf. not with bombs, bombing the enemy serves only their reasons to be in charge. [/quote]
I agree. I've never been a fan of war. I too believe there's always a better solution.