(Archive) Advertising District / Busch Gardens San Simeon (LL Park)

I understand that, I just didn't understand the way he put it. Which was, in part, why I posted what I did. All I got out of his post was what I wrote, which I knew wasn't nearly what he intended.

Still, I don't see why anyone would want to build this stuff, even if it was the easiest thing in the world...

cg?, there is indeed something worthwhile about playing LL and working much harder and for a longer period of time, even though you might achieve something that doesn't necessarily look any better than if you had simply stacked a bunch of RCT2 pieces in 10 minutes. It's not prestige, it's a toughening process. The only way you get better at anything is if you are limited and forced to be creative, inventive, and skillful in using the tools you are given to achieve something that is rewarding. You can't become more skilled and creative at anything without limitations first. When you are limited in what you can work with, the improvement comes exclusively from within yourself. When you are not limited, you have no ground on which to crank out a certain skill over time. There's no improvement. That's why doing stuff like Fatha' has done here, instead of just building it with an almost endless array of custom object options, is worthwhile.

CoasterEd, so let me get this straight, you like to build this way in LL because it's hard, but you hate building in RCT2 because it's hard? Um, okay...

Well okay, if you take the word 'challenging' to mean hard and 'unexperienced building with RCT2' to mean hard, then I can see why you might get that but it's quite obviously not what I meant. Challenge is a kind of difficulty I control myself. I would like to challenge myself to build things in RCT2, and have planned to quite a few times, it just hasn't worked out with the H2H schedules and I haven't really had time to build anything outside of H2H for quite awhile. But anyway, I don't need to struggle with RCT2 to challenge myself, and since it's mostly about having fun anyway, I don't see why I should. Parkmaking for me is about taking the tools available and making them into some imaginary place. With RCT2 you could theoretically make an object for anything you want and then place it in the game. That's definately a skill, but I wouldn't call that parkmaking. If it were all about how it looks in the end, that would be a better way to do it. But I think how you make something is just as important as what it is you make. I'd much rather find a way to build objects with what is already in the game. Stacking objects and merging tracks and all of the little tricks people do with LL, it's really the same thing as stacking 1/4 tile blocks together in RCT2 to make things. The tools are different but the concept is the same. The 'building blocks' are clumsier, they're things like coaster tracks and glass blocks, so you have to be creative about how you use them, but the concept is the same. Take what is already there and use it to make something else. Preferably something new. It's not specific to LL. People do the same thing with RCT2. Those 1/4 tile blocks have become landscaping and skyscrapers and cathedrals and strange twisting support structures. I remember your Park Wars park. Sea World. It looked like a mrICE park. But you had dolphin pools and pens for zoo animals. Those things aren't in the game, but you found a way to make them anyway with the tools that are in the game. So why stop there? Why stop with Sea World? Why not a Brazilian slum? Why not Macchu Picchu?

The simple way to say it is, inventing new types of rides and architectures in the game is a way to keep the game interesting. Why build in RCT2 when you have more fun building in LL?

I'm not attacking innovation, I'm attacking innovation for the sake of innovation, and the praising of innovation simply because it is innovative.

That really doesn't make sense cg?

No? What I mean is this: everyone talks about this park in terms of being "innovative", and willingly ignore the fact that it looks like shit, and absolutely nothing like any of it's supposed "themes". That's what's REALLY upsetting me...

the fact that it looks like shit

Since when is opinion a fact?

and absolutely nothing like any of it's supposed "themes"

I think most of them look dead on. But maybe that's just me.

Since when is opinion a fact?

My opinions have been fact for as long as I remember!

You can't stand to lose an argument, can you?

I'm not attacking innovation, I'm attacking innovation for the sake of innovation, and the praising of innovation simply because it is innovative.

Actually, I agree with you about that. And that goes for RCT2 as well as LL. I'm not all that impressed by the screens from this park, but I figure that might be because I have a pretty good understanding of how to do these things and I've seen them before. I think Nate's attempt at the urban look in The Aegean was more succesful, and it's hard to say much about El Dorado so far because it's just one building. But then I'm also used to not liking Fatha's screens but liking his parks, so I'm maintaining a 'wait and see' strategy. On the otherhand, I think trying to do something difficult and falling short is still more impressive than not taking any chances and succeeding.

But yeah, just because you've stacked a bunch of shit together in a new way doesn't mean it's anything good. A good amount of LL parks I've seen lately seem to take an 'everything but the kitchen sink, well maybe that too' approach to theming which I don't like. That's not what theming is to me, but it's their park, they can build it how they want. And I don't know how 'innovative' this is anyway. I've seen those domes before in several parks and Blitz used those same geometric shapes as windows in that RCT2 mini he released. But Grinch is still mixing elements in a unique way which is infinitely more interesting than another collection of pretty little 2x2 buildings with balconies and ghost train windows. I don't really see where people are coming from with the 'omg wow!' comments, but whatever. I generally don't understand most people's comments. Yours included, although I understand what you're saying here. I guess ultimately we filter other people's work by relating it to our own. And just because this particular park may not appeal to you doesn't mean the whole concept of trying to reinvent architecture in LL is flawed. I've seen 1/4 tile buildings which I think are wonderful and 1/4 tile buildings which I think are terrible but I'm not ranting about how 1/4 tile architecture is the stupidest thing ever because of it.

You can only win an argument when you change the mind of the person you are arguing with, and you haven't. But I'm not trying to argue with anyone, merely have my views be understood.

Edit: I wasn't trying to argue against the style, as I said, just trying to understand why people are so impressed by it, and are doing it. I'm not sure I still understand, honestly. But, yeah, I agree, and such, and whatever, and yeah.

I think trying to do something difficult and falling short is still more impressive than not taking any chances and succeeding.

Bang. Thats why so many parks nowadays bore me to tears...

The park looks decent. Some parts aren't so good, but slightly innovative, some parts are very good (which in my opinion is a good share of the park) and are innovative. Even if it looked good, but not innovative, it'd still be good. But now that sense of "good" has been done so much that it is no longer considered good in my eyes but mediocre and boring, so something innovative is clearly something different that captivates in a way, otherwise it may just be "creative", and creativity doesn't quite mean its good...

No? What I mean is this: everyone talks about this park in terms of being "innovative", and willingly ignore the fact that it looks like shit, and absolutely nothing like any of it's supposed "themes". That's what's REALLY upsetting me...

LOL.

Look Chauncey, the day you show me how to make a better El Dorado and a better City of God is the day you can call my screens "shit" and "looking absolutely nothing like the themes". That comment is bullshit, because I for A FACT KNOW they look authentic due to all the research and pictures and such I have looked at.

What upsets me (well, not upset, more like annoys) is the fact that you have audacity to call somebody's park SHIT when your work is probably the most unoriginal boring bullshit on the planet. Prove me wrong, until then shut the fuck up.

Update 16 - El Dorado Picture 2

After seeing the first update, this screen is a bit different as it does not use the stacked scenery as much (no, not because idiot gardner hates it, but because it did not fit this building). The building I am showing you is basically un unnamed tower complex (much like IOA's lighthouse in the port of entry, well at least in concept and use) that greets you at the entrance. It juztaposed alongside a cliff like every other building in El Dorado. In fact, El Dorado is basically built into a canyon, sort of (well in my version of it, there is really no proof that it was built this way in real life, if it exists). Anyway's, here is the screen.






Explanations:

- I did use some columns from the temple in the left portion of the building. I did this to interact the building with the cliff, so it just didn't "sit on the cliff" sort of, but was more "a part of the cliff" sorta.
- The visible chairlifts..........im working on that.
- This is the first screen in my park where you see the RRP windows (the golden glass squares). You become more familiar with them as you see more.

The actual entrance gates are shown in this screen (Look to the right of the tower complex). I basically just wanted them to stand above their immediate area, which is why I raised the pathing and entrance gates one level above the general entrance path level. I used the city wall (And forgot to hide the little windows, my apologies) and raised castle walling to make the tops of the entrance gates. My goal was to have it look similar to the tower, but look a bit different as well.

Another thing to note....the tower is again unfunctional to the guests. It is located outside of the entrance gates...so therefore it should not be an attraction or a shop in the park. Every building in this entrance harbor will be for theming purposes only.

Enjoy the screen, you wont see another for a little while.

I'm not liking this screen at all...

Theres just something I can't quite put my finger on that ruins it.

Hmm, well I like the second screen a lot more. More than anything else you've posted in this topic actually. I like how you used those little tents. Very clever.

I agree it is not impressive on an overall scale if you look at it from a distance, but once you get to look deeper within the screen i think it is simply fantastic. The small details and hacks, that must take hours to complete. Therefore i just spend ages looking at the screen trying to think of ways you managed to achieve each of these hacks, because some of them are totally unbelievable. I know i may have not seen or played LL that much, but i do know what i see in that screen you can't do in 5mins!
I know that if i tried something like this, i would lose patience very quickly. So i can't help but admire the screen and all the time you put into it and the overall level of 'hack-iness'.

-X-

honestly, i think chauncey makes perfect sense. always.
the new screen is somewhat interesting but also somewhat not really dragging me in. i still think it's good you've changed your style, fatha'. how far is this park %-wise?

Umm. wow.

I like it as always. details are superb. No complaints.

Spectacular.

I don't like it as much, but I think it's because of the darkness of the screen.

Take another shot of the same area in full sunlight... I think that would help it out- seeing how it really looks.