General Chat / Euro 2004

They were all born in england, though.

Maybe this is personal for me, but neither of my parents were born in Britain yet they're both British... I'd drop this conversation if you didn't keep going on about it. It's such a trivial, useless, desperate way to find reasons to criticise the French team in the face of defeat. Criticise Henry's lack of impact or Silvestre's cock-a-doodle-doo-a-doodle-doo-a-doodle-doo-ups, but don't even bother trying to criticise their legitimacy as a team.

Yeh. I'm just struggling to hold onto a drunken argument.

England deserved at least a draw, and the way it was taken away was cruel. That annoys me.

I guess I'm a very British person. I'm not saying that if you're not born in a country then you shouldn;t be elligble to play for them... or I was, but that was in the aftermath when I was more pissed off than I am now. But patriotism is important to me, for instance when Indians who live in England go to test matches in England and support India, that annoys me so much. Just part of my character...

I get that, but if you went to live in India, would you not go and support England at the test matches?

No, I wouldn't. But then again, I would never move away from England

Whats done is now done, england lost in a cruel way to fracne last night, and now its over. Theres no use in making excuses saying this is because, that is because.. Once a team loses they lose, and no going back.

I feel if beckham scored that penalty, it would have wrapped it up for england, but they payed the price.

But on the other hand, richie, England need to look at their defeat and take crucial lessons from it.

But on the other hand, richie, England need to look at their defeat and take crucial lessons from it.

I know that, i just mean that its done now, so they need to look at their next game, and go behind so they chase the game. It worked against germany all that time ago

End of the day we got beat, i am gutted and speechless.

We deserved something from the game, at least a draw.

Gerrard - awful pass, but one of the best midfielders in the world. He will bounce back.

Beckham - should be fined for missing a penalty really, didnt play well.

James - cant blame him

heskey - complete and utter shite

Half of the people on here havent got a clue

Play heskey or vassell instead of owen ???? Are you fucking stupid.
Hes one of the best strikers in the world, end of.

Gerrard, vieira and zidane are the 3 best midfielders in the world.

Im undecided on the scholes thing, because he hasnt scored for such a long time, but sometimes i think u cant leave him out cos he can produce the goods.

Hes probably injured for the swiss game so i would play dyer who has the energy of a train. Put him on the left wing.

HESKEY IS A FUCKING YARD DOG AND THATS COMING FROM A LIVERPOOL FAN WHERE HE PLAYED THE LAST 5 YEARS OF HIS CAREER
HE IS SHITE

Hes one of the best strikers in the world, end of.

You needed 2 posts for that?

Anyways, im a liverpool fan, and i want owen to leave. You say hes the best in the world? I laugh at that. If anything, hes the most overrated player in the world. The season just passed, gerard houllier played him every game he was fit, and almost every game he was silenced, maybe pouncing on a goal from the goal line. In the england game, any small chance he got, he messed up. I dont remember him taking a shot? I know he can have good games, but they dont come often enough.

And for those comments, i can agree that he is sometimes a complete donkey, yet i think hes better than owen at the moment. I really wish he didnt leave liverpool, i wish it was owen that left instead, think how much a team would pay for someone like owen? Give chelsea a quick sniff of him and there will be a nice bug cheque sitting at anfield. With cisse coming in next season, owen will have to battle for his spot in the team. Meaning he either starts playing well, or he doesnt play at all.

Cisse + Baros up front is what i want to see. Yes, baros is better than owen IMO.

I agree with most of what you said, scarface, but I'd personally rate Ronaldinho as the best midfielder on current form. Zidane peaked back in '98 and euro 2000, he's not the force he was then - he can be contained as england showed for 90 minutes.

I'd play Joe Cole against the Swiss, I think his tricks will work on a slightly weaker defence.

And Heskey I completely agree on. I don't understand why he continues to play for England. He never looks like he's trying at all, and he is just a big lump.

And for the Owen doubters... I wouldn't be so quick to critisize a player who has scored a goal like he did against Argentina or a hat trick like his against Germany. Owen is useful because he is on poor form if anything; like France did, teams will concentrate on marking him out of the game, leaving Rooney with more space which resulted in a penalty for england last night.

Richie how old are you ? Let me guess at 14-16 ?

Michael owen is one of the best strikers in the world and thats a fact, i never said "the best". I said one of.

I rate baros highly as i rate cisse highly...Its better to have competition. But how can u say heskey is better than owen, i dont understand that comment at all.

Dean - Ronaldinho would be up there yes, but its hard to catergorize him inbetween striker and midfield due to the fact barca play him up front a lot of the time and brazil play him in midfield. If he is classed as a midfielder i would put him in the top 5 also with the other 3 and pavel nedved.

People who criticise owen are stupid, because they will end up saying in the end "oh yer he is good, it is just a bad patch"

TPM, you and me look at football differently. I put on my England shirt, go to the pub, and shout with passion at the TV. I can imagine you sitting there, impassively, waiting for England to concede. Correct me if I'm wrong. And can you really say England didn't deserve a draw from that match? How many times did you hear the names Makelele or Trezeguet mentioned for example?

Actualy I was with a bunch of my mates, drinking, jumping around when we scored, slagging off Beckham when he missed and loosing it when we lost just like most England fans. Don't ever think I wanted France to win I am just a realist and after the game I analyse it just from my point of view as a neutral football fan would. I do believe we deserved a draw out of the game but nothing more because we just didn't understand that you can not sit back and invite one of the best teams in the world onto you for 45mins and not expect to conceed at some point. The fact Makalele and Trezeguet weren't mentioned much does the French favours if anything because even though they were played out of the game they still had the class in other areas to come through.

I really dont see anything special in owen, apart from pace which plenty of other strikers have. I didnt actually mean heskey is better than owen, just that he seems more of a force than owen most of the time. Its not all about scoring, hes a strong attacker, and can play balls for team mates. Owne just stands around waiting for someone to send him the ball, where heskey comes back and attempts to get the ball himself.

What is so special that owen does game in, game out anyway? Tell me that.

Bloody hell tpm. Smile, look at the positives we can take out of the game. All your "if shevchenko can't score we're doomed" bollocks was proved wrong for starters.

Richie how old are you ?  Let me guess at 14-16 ?

Michael owen is one of the best strikers in the world and thats a fact, i never said "the best".  I said one of.

I don't think he is. Its not a fact that he is, its an opinion.

In the Argentina match, yes it was a good goal, but did anyone comment that both the Argentinean center-backs were on yellows? Would they risk taking Owen down for a sure fire penalty? No, better to take the risk he'd miss. The Germany hatrick? None of the goals were particuarly amazing, but they all count. However, he was playing one of the weakest Germany squads for years.

Anyway, I'd rather have:

Ronaldo
Raul
Rooney
Shearer
Vieri
D'Piero
etc, etc.

Hes overated. Wow, he has pace. Can he head the ball? Not brilliantly. Can he shoot from outside the box? No. Can he take free-kicks? Don't make me laugh. Does he have good stamina? ... Can he hold himself up against bigger defenders? No.

Bring back Shearer and Sheringham and get rid of the boy I say.

Owen can hold himself against big defenders. Just cos hes small doesnt mean hes not strong. Plus he is good in the air for his size, not the best obviously cos he isnt tall, but he has a good leap.

Del piero is overrated.

Owen is proven class, hence he has been european footballer of the year.

dont know how people can slag him off

Bloody hell tpm. Smile, look at the positives we can take out of the game. All your "if shevchenko can't score we're doomed" bollocks was proved wrong for starters.

Fuck me you just can't drop it can you. I have taken positives out of the game I just post about the bare essentials on here and the essential fact is we lost.

As far as that Shevchenko statement being bollocks. For one he didn't play anyway, secondly it was mainly to get people talking and to add an incentive for people to watch and thirdly we never looked like scoring against them in open play anyway and before you start the same applys for France against us, our defencee was solid.

Actually I'm not going to go there. Not worth my time.

So, Italy were lucky imo to get away with a draw - Buffon saved them a couple of times.

Put it this way this could go back and forth forever, case example, you say Rooney's was the best open play oppertunity - I say it was Henry's.