General Chat / Euro 2004

Actually, I do think Spain have a worst squad than us as well. They have major weaknesses, remember they don't have Hierro this time round. And our last 3 matches against Spain, we've won 2 and drawn 1 (one of which was 4-0 to us). Portugal I reckon are about the same as Spain now, I'm honestly shitting myself at the thought of Ronaldo running against Neville, even that Icelandic guy tore him apart. Let's hope they play him down the right where Cole can match, if not better him, for pace.

Spain are the underachivers of world football, they have a squad to rival any squad on the planet they just can't translate their talent into a team performance very often. If I was to list Spains 23 man squad next to Englands you'd understand. Just for example look at who they have to choose from as forwards, Raul, Morientes and Torres, compared to our first 3 choices Owen, Rooney and Heskey.

Our past record against Spain is good but let's not forget that this year we will be playing them (if we do) in their backyard, we will have a much better chance against them then we do against France but man for man they have a better overall squad. Portugal aren't at the same level squad wise as Spain is but given the boost of them playing on home soil, Porto recently bringing back the CL and wonderkids like Ronaldo breaking through they have just as good a chance, I agree.

I think you have to make a distinction between the Japan game and the 2 others England have in the groups. First of all, Japan play a very different style of football that England aren't used to, because they're physically smaller (generally) and pass through the middle much more, which England weren't used to. Secondly, physchologically, Japan really wanted to win - more than England. For them, players like Beckham are idols - he's the biggest celebrity in Japan - and they haven't got any big championships to prepare for and worry about injuries for. England will be a lot more up for the games against Switzerland and Croatia (I think it's Croatia).

England are 3rd favourites for the whole tournament at some bookmakers. We really do have a major chance - if we don't reach the semis, I'll be extremely dissapointed. But then, I've been through that with England many times now, so I can't say I won't be surprised.

Do you not think other teams in our group would have looked at the Japan game and realised that by playing through the middle you can break us down easily and thought about using that tactic? France play through the middle mostly anyway, their game is alot like Arsenals. We won't see them crossing the ball as much as other teams against us, which could be a good thing as we can't defend against them very well now we lack the height of Rio, but they will play through the middle just like Japan did but only this time the players doing it will be in a whole different league. As far as the bookies are concerned, look at the top three favourites for the CL last season and see where they finished...

As for Beckham, he's a leader as well as a player. When has Zidane ever done anything special? I can only remember one goal he scored from far out and I can't even remember the details of it. Beckham, I could make a massive list. OK, Zidane's french and Beckham's english so I've seen more of the latter, but Zidane can have games where you won't notice he's playing (Champion's League semi final leg 2). Beckham simply does not have those.

When has Zidane ever done anything special? Single handedly destorying Brazil in the world cup final in 98 springs to mind. I honestly don't know how you can say Beckham doesn't have games where you don't notice him, he drifts in and out of games so frequently, how many times has he made the headlines just because of a freekick or a penalty, if he hadn't had that oppertunity he would have been average in the majority of those games. He is a class player but you can not compare him to Zidane, they are on totaly different levels. The fact the fee payed for Zidane by Real remains the highest ever transfer fee speaks for it's self.

Actually, that fee thing is a weak argument. The value of players in world football decreased hugely between their purchases of Beckham and Zidane, so much so that had they both been bought at the same time, Beckham would have been worth more.

But I agree about the Arsenal/France thing... they are, after all, the same team...

And Beckham is a different player when he plays for England, he gives 100+%. I think England have a special passion exhibited by players like Terry, Beckham etc. Ok, perhaps I'm being optimistic, but as you pointed out, the Champions League proved how utterly useless predictions are anyway,

Yep, here we are arguing over France and England when for all we know, France could repeat their performace in the last world cup whilst England fall to pieces and watch Croatia and Swizterland cruise through.

Yep, here we are arguing over France and England when for all we know, France could repeat their performace in the last world cup whilst England fall to pieces and watch Croatia and Swizterland cruise through.

WAY TO LIFT SPIRITS!!!

I LOVE CM03/04 TOOO!!!!

Wait, don't get me started on champ man... I wasted years of my life with that game... I got to 2032 once, with Brighton winning the champions league and premiership. Yes, that addicted...

So.. still good game. I get really annoyed at it though, like losing 3 - 0 to a div 2 side when im liverpool. I had like 25 shots, 20 on target and they had 3 out of 3 shots on target.

Just had to stop lurking a minute ...

"When has Zidane ever done anything special?"

I don't know if you have Sky and get to watch Zidane every week or not but he does something special almost every game. Even if you don't have Sky you must have seen his goal in the Champions league final against Bayer Levekusen ... you can see it again here (might have to right click/save as). Huge game, incredible technique and with his WEAKER foot. He does also seem to have a knack of stepping it up even further in big games.

The only really special thing Beckham has done is his goal from the halfway line. Zidane has scored all the free kicks Beckham has and better... search Zidane on Kazaa and you'll find them. Sorry but you'd get laughed out of every pub in the country if you asked "When has Zidane ever done anything special?"

I watch sky all the time, case study, the Real Madrid v. Barcelona game, he got completely outshadowed by Ronaldinho. And if he's that much of a genius, why couldn't he rescue Madrid from Monaco when they went down in the 2nd leg? I mean, yes, he's a good player, capable of good things, but Europe's best player ever? That's a joke. And this sort of protaganism is stupid and uneccessary;

"Sorry but you'd get laughed out of every pub in the country if you asked "When has Zidane ever done anything special?" "

I'm entitled to my opinion, and I was actually discussing this in a pub the other day and most people agreed with me. As for your Beckham comment, I would say to you it's not individual bits of football like that Zidane goal that matter. At the end of the day, that counts as 1 goal, just as Vassell's fluke at the weekend did. It doesn't matter how you score, as long as you do - Ruud van Nistelrooy is a classic example of this. And so is Beckham - how many times does he start of moves with inch perfect balls from which goals result? Every one of those is equal to one of those Zidane goals. That's worth bearing in mind.

*and that goal you posted I gave credit to earlier in the thread, it's an awesome goal, but as I said, worth the same as any other.

It doesn't matter how you score, as long as you do - Ruud van Nistelrooy is a classic example of this.

Agreed.

Totally entitled to your opinions, of course. My main point was that goal in the CL final was undoubtedly special. I could go and find more special things Zidane has done but i really can't be bothered =) Also, iirc you're a Man U fan, and when i talk to Man U fans about football it usually goes downhill rapidly hehe.

Wait... you don't support France, sorry, I mean Arsenal, do you?

I accept, if you made a list of the best entertainers in football, Zidane would be right near the top. The discussion was originally about whether England would beat France or not, which is a different question.

Chins up, we WILL beat france! We WILL go through! We WILL WIN Euro 2004!

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Assuming this has become the official EM football topic at NE, Sweden beat Poland with 3-1, yay. Fear us.

France are playing Ukraine tonight, it should be interesting to see how they get on. It'll be a test of their defence. If Shevchenko can't break through then there's no hope for us.

Hopefully Ukraine will play dirty, bone crunching tackles sounds good to me

Yeah the topic came quite popular, more than I thought. If a mod could change the topic to the follwing it would be cool.

Euro 2004
Match thoughts

Cheers.

Or how about "Football" so we can also discuss National football.

Well Euro 2004 is suitable for this time. Maybe it can be that after Marshy.

"France, who are now on a 18-match unbeaten run and have not conceded a goal for almost a year, start their Euro 2004 campaign next Sunday against England in Group B."

Ouch. And I eat a couple of my words about Zidane after he scored the winner against Ukraine... But I'm not even sure if Shevchenko was playing, and he didn't have the best supply from his midfield if he was... so I wouldn't lose all hope for England yet. But, I'd take a draw now anyday.

In more laughable football news:

KAISERSLAUTERN, Germany, June 6 (Reuters) - Germany were jeered off the pitch after slumping to an embarrassing 2-0 home defeat by Hungary in their final warm-up for Euro 2004 on Sunday.

Heroic Hungary keeper Gabor Kiraly celebrates the opener (StuartFranklin/GettyImages)

Two first-half goals from striker Sandor Torghelle gave the visitors, coached by former Germany captain Lothar Matthaeus, a surprise victory.


Germany, who had already worried their fans with a traumatic 5-1 defeat by Romania in April, will need dramatic improvement if they are to trouble the Netherlands in their first Euro 2004 game on June 15 in Oporto. They also face the Czech Republic and Latvia in a tough Group D in the finals in Portugal.

Hungary, who failed to qualify for Euro 2004 and were missing several players through injuries, made a furious start.

A shaky German defence had already struggled a few times when Torghelle, poorly marked by Christian Woerns, raced into the box to surprise Oliver Kahn with an angled shot from 11 metres on seven minutes.

Germany, who looked clumsy and short of ideas throughout the first half, were pressing hard in search for an equaliser when a swift counter-attack caught their defence off guard again. It ended with Sorghelle landing the ball on his chest before beating Kahn from close range in the 31st minute.

The three-times world and European champions stepped up a gear after the interval but were denied by a string a great saves from Gabor Kiraly.

The Hungary goalkeeper was notably tested by a diving header from midfielder Michael Ballack eight minutes into a lively but goalless second half.

Hungary resisted strong pressure to hold on to their lead and spoil Rudi Voeller's 50th match as Germany coach.

Voeller, who had hoped for a better scenario but knows from experience that warm-up games do not count, handed first caps to teenagers Bastian Schweinsteiger and Lukas Poldolski.

Bayern Munich midfielder Schweinsteiger played the second half and looked promising, although Cologne striker Podolski did not appear long enough to be rated.

Something cool

Taken from Euro 2004 website...

Personal touch for finals balls

The balls used at UEFA EURO 2004â„¢ will be specifically personalised for each individual match. The name of the teams and stadium and the date of the match will be inscribed on to each of the 20 adidas Roteiroâ„¢ balls which will be provided per game.

'Unique'
The longitude and latitude of the centre spot of the pitch will also appear on the balls and adidas representative Günter Pfau said: "The Roteiro™ is already a first as it is a ball with no stitching and personalising them for each match will make them unique."

Official supplier
adidas has produced 2,370 Roteiroâ„¢ balls for the tournament. As well as the 20 personalised balls per match there will be an additional 20 plain back-ups per venue, and each of the 16 qualified federations received a shipment in February for training purposes and will receive a second batch on arrival in Portugal.

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Now that is cool!