General Chat / Troubled times, but...

Great discussion!

In a way I feel partly responsible for the impression of the relative popularity of "crazy theming" and parks that don't look like parks. As I've said before, I like to push the boundaries of RCT and demonstrate the possibilities that are open to each and every one of us. I'll never forget the rides, though. They're still my favorite part.

I don't claim to know a lot about the history of RCT and all the great parks, but I understand there was a time when "fantasy parks" (as they were called) were held in reasonably high esteem. I see this as merely a resurgence of a certain style. Ideally, we can have realistic parks and crazy, caricatured parks and there can be appreciation of both. Think of it as Posix vs. cBass, maybe. And if we're lucky, our styles will influence each other and everyone gets better.

Also, I agree that there's a lot of useless fluff going around, both in the AD and elsewhere. Sometimes I can't figure out if I'm contributing to the problem or helping. Regardless, I could probably respond to park topics more. Yeah, "Change that red to blue!"

One more thing: I wouldn't be here if not for Kai and the 'Masters, and none of us would be here if not for Iris. But you knew that last part.

Ok so we know what is going wrong... this is what I'd like to see happen:

Inactive parkmakers need to go. No point being there if they're not releasing anything. At the same time, iris needs to make sure the new parkmakers that come in will release stuff.

I think NE would benefit from tutorials to show new people how to create rct2 buildings and hack etc, it's very hard to learn, and I think in some respects harder than LL.

The term n00b needs to go. It's intimidating and scares off new members.

More parks need to be released for rct2. I think this is because people are starting workbenches that are too big.

Spammers need to be banned. This should always be the decision of iris, not the community like metal-gate. This just goes down to popularity... that's unfair.

Members like super rich need to stop acting like they know everything and stop trying to post in every topic in the ad district in as short a time as possible. Sorry to be specific but he's just one person who comes to mind.

Shitpile needs to go. However now the problem is doubled with leftovers... both need to go imo. Perhaps replaced by more general forums, eg. about music etc. This needs to be a place where people can relax.

Competitions for less experienced members - don't get me wrong, the pro tour is immense but for less experienced people such as panoramical it's hard to get into any decent competition here.

That's it for the time being.... end of my study period at school.

anways, too many of thise damn sorrow topics, get happy people.

You know Glitchwolf, that's why I hatelove you so much...
You've always kept NE from any positive movement with these kind of comments. "Don't you do anything. I love NE. QOTSA, Pym, me, SFK and all the other pseudo-funny and intellectual guys are having a blast here. You're not stopping us!"
Please go straight to hell with that.

Hello.


As long as I am around, this site will never die....



But seriously, things slow down every once in awhile. Big deal.
I haven't been around recently, but that's because I have been busy doing a lot of other things which caused me to be out of my house.

Hence no RCT or anything.

I got a promotion at work, so my time on the internet at work was literally cut in half, since I am on the road almost all day now.

I still love the site and the community. I was going to post my next article today and it was going to be a "State of the Union" involving New Element and all of the quitters and whiners that I see, but Panic one-uped me this time and did it without bashing anyone in particular.

It's really funny because the amount of idiots on this site is baffling. Remember last time a slew of people started quittig? Anyone? People were quitting because they thought it was a "cool" thing to do.

How fucking pathetic.

It seems the same thing is happening now. What is also really funny is SA's comment. Chris, buddy, I know you aren't around for more reasons then the one's stated, so yeah, don't sugarcoat anything.

To everyone who has lost faith...

Get off of your lazy asses and do something about it. Complaining isn't going to get you anywhere.

I particularly loved California Coasters' departure. It made me laugh (really).
Why even bother living you fucking moron. "I couldn't compete with anyone",...

That's food for thought.

I am responsible for Hi-Rollers AND the NE Pro Tour. I love the site. I give up my own money to show that I care for people's work and effort into the art and parks they make.

I am not asking for your praise or sympathy. I just ask that you try harder if you don't like how things are.

Fuckers...


Platinum Angel of Death
§Æ§

How about you stop telling us what to build and let us do whatever the fuck we want?

How about you stop telling us what to build and let us do whatever the fuck we want?

Agreed

I get so tired of all this "doesn't look like RCT anymore" talk.
Why limit yourself to themeparks when you can build smaller universes, entire miniature cities and whatever that comes into your mind?

How about you stop telling us what to build and let us do whatever the fuck we want?

Um, exactly who is stopping you from building whatever you want?

I think he was referring to some of the earlier posts in this thread where some people were saying that parkmaking should be about making parks and coasters and not just have a cool idea. A bit clumpsy formulated though, I quoted him really only to get into the discussion.

I solemnly swear to PM anyone who goes against what is written in the subtitle for the Ad District. (IE send them to the 11th level of hell, reserved specifically for losers).


Oh, and I agree with whoever it was. Iris, could the Shitpile/Freespeak/Coatroom all disappear? Soon?

Oooh, NE's great

(sircursealot @ Jan 7 2004, 07:44 PM)
How about you stop telling us what to build and let us do whatever the fuck we want? 

Agreed

I get so tired of all this "doesn't look like RCT anymore" talk.
Why limit yourself to themeparks when you can build smaller universes, entire miniature cities and whatever that comes into your mind?

Rollercoaster Tycoon.....

You want to build a city, go buy Sim City. It's pretty simple. One of the topics that has been coming up when I have been speaking to certain members of the community, and reading this thread, is that RCT isn't looking like RCT anymore. I personally blame the sudden influx of custom scenery. I have nothing against custom scenery when created using an RCT template, (look at any of Toon's stuff, apart from those Suess' Landing objects, they looked rubbish - no offence, just an opinion) but having custom objects for things that were never meant to be included in the game is just wrong in my opinion. Partly to blame for this is WW and TT, but that's been said already...

However, although I am very impressed by people like cBass in the Pro Tour, thinking about the Alien round in particular here, I don't like the direction you are taking. Sorry to single you out here, but I believe you are single handedly starting a revolution that I don't like the look of. Call it jealousy, I certainly could never build anything half as impressive as that, I just don't have the imagination, but I just feel like I am going to be left behind. I am particularly happy that a lot of you are welcoming the return of the realistic theme park, a trend obviously started by RoB. I feel at home with this style of parmaking, the traditional, atmospheric style. Long may it live.

I'm babbling here, and I know it, but hey, i'm on a roll.

There certainly seems to have been a sudden influx of the so-called n00b parkmakers onto the boards, and the Advertising District in particular, thinking they are "all that". Get over it. You are not going to be the next Schussler. You are not going to be the next Fatha Grinch either. I remember a time when those who were new to the boards held a respect for established parkmakers and posted once every now and then, to add a valuable piece of information, or an honest opinion. Now people are coming and telling established parkmakers how to build their parks. I'm all for letting people have their say and their own opinion, but it's getting ridiculous.

About the idea of getting rid of certain forums, i am completely agreed. Get rid of Freespeak and Shitpile, that is just inviting people to fill up the boards by posting crap. The Coatroom is pretty much a joke anyway, lose it.

Don't get me wrong here, I am very thankful to you Iris. I will be thankful to you for a long time to come. I am also thankful to the "Platinum Angel of Death", as you insist on being called, for ploughing money into contests and the site itself. Keep doing that, I know I couldn't.

Long live Rollercoaster Tycoon...

What someone should do is make this wonderful Cities but make them Ride Based. Its beutiful but it aint a theme park and thats what this game is about: Theme Parks.

Of all the things people are talking about, I actually disagree with that. RCT is a tool and I think it's cool people are using it for vastly different things - we need variety, and it should be encouraged.

I think it's quite even at the moment - the majority of parks being made have quite traditional values, but at the same time people want to be outlandish and maybe surprise people.

I for one admire people who make understated, beautiful parks - I could never do that. Criticism of all types of parks should be encouraged, but only if it's thoughtful. Which is the problem. Which will be addressed.

Saying that parkmaking is taking a turn for the worse isn't going to solve anything, because everyone has different tastes. Making sure that your style of parkmaking is well publicised and gets the type of feedback you're looking for IS what's needed.

(as an aside: RoB may be a traditional and beautifully understated parks, but it takes risks - asian theming, suspended coaster, aquaducts and those corkscrew colours to name but a few.)

So yes, I agree things should be done, and i'm sure things will improve from here - but leave parkmaking style and choice out of it because that's NOT where the problem lies.

I loved Wisconsin because the rides were all built into it. Thats what makes it my favourite park of the year. Amazing buildings and themeing and great rides.

Red Brain's Buildings are amazing but I dont see any rides and yes, RCT is a tool but its not a theme park without rides. But I don't realy know why it has to be a theme park.....

Ok so my argument just crumbled beneath me. I was talking shit, don't mind me.

However, although I am very impressed by people like cBass in the Pro Tour, thinking about the Alien round in particular here, I don't like the direction you are taking. Sorry to single you out here, but I believe you are single handedly starting a revolution that I don't like the look of. Call it jealousy, I certainly could never build anything half as impressive as that, I just don't have the imagination, but I just feel like I am going to be left behind. I am particularly happy that a lot of you are welcoming the return of the realistic theme park, a trend obviously started by RoB. I feel at home with this style of parmaking, the traditional, atmospheric style. Long may it live.

I don't think you have to worry too much about an RCT revolution, Turtle. My Pro Tour entry was an experiment, designed and conceived mainly for shock value. But if you look closely there are also a few flat rides, stalls, benches, and yes, even a Rollercoaster. In other words, it still functions as a theme park, and so will everything I ever make in RCT. In fact, since it's peep-friendly, it could be considered more of a theme park than many parks released here, though that's a whole 'nother discussion that frankly I've given up on.

But your point is about the look of such parks, and to a degree I am sympathetic to that view. My other recent work in the Masters Palette is a little more traditional. The custom scenery is mostly Toon's, and the architecture, while undeniably over-the-top, is more like what you're used to seeing in the game. And it's by far the best thing I've ever done.

I'm going to continue building whatever I feel like building, and my goal will always be to make you say "wow". But I love theme parks as much as we all do.

Iris, could the Shitpile/Freespeak/Coatroom all disappear? Soon?

What, I'm not alone ?!

I for one admire people who make understated, beautiful parks - I could never do that.

Because you never try.

I think all this discussion about how RCT is meant to be played is not really neccessary at all. The game itself was designed as a platform for making theme parks, but over time, people like cBass have altered the purpose of the game. Whether or no you make a realistic theme park or an out of this world "Universe", there are people who will appreciate good RCT work.

The type of work being made is not the problem at all, its the amount, as far as I'm concerned.

I've been waiting to post here cause I wasn't sure yet what I wanted to say. The last time NE went through a slump like this I was able to post more and try to getting things going again. This time I've just been too busy and that leaves me feeling guilty. A lot of people have been quitting and with the pressure I'm under right now, I have to admit I've really considered taking that road myself several times. What it always comes back to though is that I'm not done with RCT yet and while it will certainly be awhile before I can get some projects really going, it's worth it to me to weather that storm however long it takes. That's my own personal burden. I'm sorry I haven't been as much of a presence here as I used to be and I'm even more sorry that NE seems to be slipping into tough times. I don't know my fellow parkmakers enough to know why they all seem to be quitting their projects at the same time, but I do know how tough it's been for me not being able to work on anything. I wish I had more time to devote to RCT right now but I just don't. Sometime I will though. Sometime. Staying in Park Wars 2 is going to be tough to me, but it's my own small way of showing that I still care what happens to NE and want to help out how I can.

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I think you guys are selling SACF short by calling RoB the return of realistic parkmaking. It's nothing of the sort. Realistic parkmaking never went away for one thing. It's everywhere at NE. Sure some things have changed over the years but I think most of what is produced here is primarily realistic. Secondly, I don't think SACF ever sets out to start a trend. I don't believe he did that with his Legends parks nor did he do it with RoB. He's building what he wants to build and having a good time of it. That's what parkmaking is about. His parks are so good because he cares about them and puts time into them. If you expect RoB to start a wave of more realistic parks than you missed the point. It's the extra effort and attention to detail that makes the park great. Now that would be a refreshing new trend if people actually picked up on that.

I have noticed a disturbing trend in the Ad. District for awhile now. The number of parks being advertised has increased exponentially while the number of parks actually released has dropped. It's no big mystery what's going on here and it's partially everyone's fault. The parkmakers that come here are proud of their work. Speaking for myself, I like to talk about parks I've made and parks that I've enjoyed and even parks that I've admired. This discussion has been one of the funnest aspects about NE. It becomes a real community when people interact and share experiences in that way.

I really don't know what the general impression of NE is at other RCT sites cause I don't visit any of them, but occasionally the issue of elitism comes up here. Maybe some people behave in an arrogant manner sometimes but I've always felt the vast majority of the members to be very polite and generous. Well it used to be that way anyway. I think there's been too much emphasis placed on reputation though. Contests and competitions are fun and making lists is a good way to show appreciation for fellow parkmakers but sometimes people pay too much attention to that kind of public recognition. If everyone starts building parks just to get recognition for themselves than the whole community breaks down. Part of being in a community is being generous to your peers. You have to give as well as recieve.

The bottom line is, how many parks you make is not really important. It's the me-first attitude that is taking the fun from this site. I look through the Ad District and I see people starting up topics for parks they've barely even started. I'm sorry, but I have no interest in commenting on two buildings and a couple trees that you call an entrance area for a park you probably won't ever finish. No thank you. The Ad District is for showing people your work and releasing your parks. It should not be your own personal hype machine. If you have something worth showing, great. If you honestly want some help than by all means ask for it. But remember that this site is for everybody. You don't have to be skilled to be a valuable member, but you do have to respect everyone else as people.

So to me, the negative trend is in people's attitudes not in the parks themselves. Throughout my participation in H2H2, judging of the Hi-Rollers parks, and viewing the Pro TOur entries I'm constantly amazed by what people are doing with RCT and RCT2. Innovation is a good thing, a great thing. For those that look back at the "good old days" I think you're forgetting that RCT has always been about innovation. Seeing new things is exciting, especially when they come from a game that is over 4 years old. If innovation goes, so too does the community. I think what you devoted realists are really looking for is people who care enough to make their parks look good. In my opinion, making something beautiful has more to do with the amount of effort and love you put into it than how skilled you are. So let people experiment and innovate and build parks however they want to. What's missing is not the realism of the old days, what's missing is people who care enough to put detail and effort into each park instead of slapping shit together and moving on to the next project. This is why you haven't seen anything from me in awhile, because I haven't had time to put the effort into something that I really want to. And anything less would be a waste of everyone's time, most especially my own.

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I know I sometimes get carried away and post lengthy responses like this. It's not because I desire some kind of admiration though, it's merely because I feel free to express myself here. The fact of the matter is, I can't make anyone change their mind. All I can really do is post what I think with the hope that it will make sense to others. Of course my great hope is that one person will agree with me and decide that it's worth it for them to change a little and then another person will do the same and another and another. That's how change occurs. Cause guys, you are the community, every last one of you. Making a choice for yourself is the start of making a choice for the whole community. All you can do is what you believe is right and trust that others will follow in the same path. If everyone did that, it may take a while, but progress would be inevitable.

A BIG Amen to that! That pretty much sums it up for me.

What's missing is not the realism of the old days, what's missing is people who care enough to put detail and effort into each park instead of slapping shit together and moving on to the next project.

I agree with this and its what I was getting at a little while ago.

Nice read Ed, I'll try and do my part

::applauds ed::