General Chat / Troubled times, but...

Just a little pep talk.

The house of cards is showing signs of instability, folks. Teeter-totter. What to do, what to do? How to keep it standing?

I remember July. Yes, I surfed the site as a guest only in those days. Those were some good days. Euroscape and SWA released. Bam! Bam! All those runner-ups on both of those parks. The NE Awards. Smooth sailing, the horizon had never looked brighter. Our spirit as a website was high and we were making full speed ahead across the RCT ocean.

Now, here we sit, in January. God, has it been only six months? You would think that we would have been coasting, with new ideas being released all the time, originality in RCT1 and new concepts in RCT2.

But no. We are in something of a rut. The overall attitude of the site has gone downhill. And some things have happened that have left marks on the community. A bunch of people leaving. I thought I'd never see the day when we actually establish a forum for departees. And then those incomplete parks. Much appreciated for effort, but still somewhat of a disappointment.

Iris is losing heart rapidly. He has been working his ass off on all these contests, lists and events, and we seem to be responding unenthusiastically. All these things are organized and no one responds.

So, what to do?

Before I give my suggestion I would like to say to Iris:
I have the utmost respect and appreciation for you and your efforts. This site kicks ass and it wouldn't be that way without you. This is the last outpost of the true RCT spirit, and it has all been due to your tireless efforts. Don't lose heart. I know that we all love this site, however gloomy the attitude may be. Stay the course.

This applies to everybody:

Ride this time of turbulence out and look to the warmer months as a time of recovery and smoother sailing.

As long as we survive, we survive. That's it. That's all there is. As long as we have a community then we will always be NE. There are plenty of opportunities still out there. We are all bogged down by schoolwork at this time of year. So I say look to the summer as the months when we will really flourish, when people have more time to work on RCT stuff. The winter months can be expected to be a low time of year. But if we ride out the turbulence, there is smooth sailing ahead.

So Iris, whaddya say? We look to the warmer months for better prospects, and we let our upcoming parkmakers do what they love. Now I'm not saying you should cancel anything. Everything that is going on right now is excellent. But don't look at the situation now; look to the future.

I thought I'd never see the day when we actually establish a forum for departees.

'Twas Fatha's idea... and my little joke.

Troubled times? Just because a few people release a park? That seems to be a bit much, don't you think?

Not to mention, your post alone just sounded like you're sucking up, no offense. It's really none of your business, nor anyone else's, to tell people what to do. I mean, building for the enjoyment is good, and I agree with you, but if people think they need to prove themselves, who are we to stop them?

The site hasn't gone downhill and still remains one of the biggest communities in the community. Pretty damn good for a site going "downhill." I think the site is going fine. The lack of spotlights doesn't bother me. When a good park is made, it'll get posted. People do have lives outside of this site and game, and I feel that is really being neglected when it comes to people getting angry about cancelled or unfinished parks.

Don't get me wrong, I understand iris' frustration. Sitting without e-mail in your box for a while is quite annoying and depressing at times, but the next wave of parks will come in soon. Many parks have been started very recently, so that may be another accomadation we need to make.

Not sure where I'm going with this, but hopefully my point is shown well. My hat is off to every webmaster that tries to run a site well, and iris is definitely not an exception. I congratulate and thank him for the work he's done on NE, but I still feel your post was a bit, well, dramatic for the situation.

Thanks Panic, I appreciate all that you said, and I think you do make some really valid points in your statement.
Right now, I think my life is heading back in a direction where I'll be a little more enthusiastic towards updating the site, but I need the parks in order to do that.

Thanks again Panic, and hopefully better days are ahead...cause at the rate it's going now....I'm not having any fun.

I edited the post, deleted the part about doing only what you love. As Underground said, it's none of my business to tell people what to do around here. We are all off on our own individual pursuits.

Thanks again Panic, and hopefully better days are ahead...cause at the rate it's going now....I'm not having any fun.

Well said...my thoughts echoed.

Don't worry, this time of year is traditionally a time where many sites and online communities find themselves in a rut, with people occupied by the holidays and such.

Thanks again Panic, and hopefully better days are ahead...cause at the rate it's going now....I'm not having any fun.

Strangely enough I think many of us are feeling that way and I've been thinking about this to some extent. Really in the heydey of the site when you were getting lots of park submissions that was the main focus of the site. You had the original H2H, but other than that the contests all seemed to be rather weak in terms of submissions. Recently it seems the emphasis of the site has been H2H3, Hi-Rollers, etc. It seems the best work is now being produced in the competition phases of the parks but as a result the mega-parks are lacking. I think it's hard to have the quality in the competitions and have the volume of megaparks being produced at the same time. I'm guessing that the average park now takes much longer to produce due to the changes in the game and the detail involved in creating great work now. All these put together add up to lower production. If I hadn't competed in Next Element, H2H3, and Survivor I'm sure I'd have had something done by now, but I just can't get to everything.

The problem for me is that in the process of all these commitment type parks, I've lost some enjoyment for the game. I really enjoy myself when I'm working on IOA, but everything else just seems like work to me now. Thus once I get the bench for the RCT2 collabo ready to go I have decided to disappear for a few weeks and immerse myself in IOA. Hopefully that will rekindle my love for the game by building something that is 100% me.

Anyways, I hope Iris realizes that this is a very successful site and that whether the production is coming in the form of H2H, contests or megaparks, the best work is still being done here. I for one do not begrudge you the lack of updates as we all need a break now or then. Your expectations of your site may at times be too high, which is commendable, but may put extra pressure on your parkmakers as well.

Here's to a productive 2004.

Don't worry, this time of year is traditionally a time where many sites and online communities find themselves in a rut, with people occupied by the holidays and such.

I really doubt this.
Winter is the time where you can't really do much outside and where you stay inside the house most of the time. Plus, there are christmas holidays as you said and they bring alot of spare time. How would we not have much time during the winter months?
I'm not getting this.
And also, just waiting for brighter days gets us nowhere. No master park comes sent from heaven in summer if you wait patiently. That's bullshit.

You know, lately I have seriously been considering quiting the community for good. Its not because of this site, its because of the members of this site. The only thing which kept me going was the fact that im close to becoming a parkmaker, and im finaly establishing myself as a talented member of the community. It royaly pisses me off when I see members of the community going for ego boosts, whilst at the same time trying to put down other members. It pisses me off when work is actualy finished and released, and it goes un noticed. Lately NE has been a real bad place to visit, and that is what pisses me off more than anything, because I know this site is the best thing IMO on the net, and all you have to do is look at the abundance of content to see how much hard work iris puts into the site, it is irreplaceable. When I see people needlessly flaming people, spaming up the boards, and generally being dicks it realy does annoy me, theyre just ruining it for us all, they are the people who dont deserve the right to come here. NE offers too much to be abused, so why do people do it?

iris deserves all the credit he gets and more, who gives a fuck if we brown nose him, he deserves it for workin so fuckin hard on the site, and for putting up with all the bullshit comments people give him. I dont think a single member of this community would work relentlessly try to sort out the best 100 coasters, or organise an intricate competition worth $100, whilst taking some of the shit iris does, and while strange demented freaks fuck up the boards because they have nothing better to do than create 7 different accounts, hating certain memebers *caugh*ihatedeanors*caugh*.

Parkmakers and non parkmakers dont get enough credit either, people spend more time typing about stupid shit in the Shit Pile or the games forum than they do in the ad district, and quite disturbingly, spotlights and runner ups get next to no comments, even though people beg and bitch for so long for iris to post them.

NE no longer has the same feel it used to have, either. It has no "great" parkmaker like it did this time last year, back when fatha' was on top of the RCT world, and people like Pyro were regular posters. I guess times change, and I dont know how to counter the downhill trend that the community is going through, but I blame it on the fact that certain non productive members of the community now have a bigger rep than the parkmakers. How can this be? Its because they repeatadly post shit they think is funny, when in effect its just a form of using other peoples mis fortune and mocking other members to make them selves move up in the heirachy. I have been talking to several people lately about this matter, such as Turtle and BchillerR, and we just dont think the community is what it used to be, RCT2 is no longer about coasters, or even parks for that matter. People now concerntrate so much on producing something origional that it is stoping anybody from releasing a park, and when they do it is nothing like a theme park, more a Sim City rec. RCT has lost its atmosphere. Its just no longer about theme parks, which I find disturbing, and IMO its runining the feel of the game. Maybe thats why people claim my work is like RCT reinvented in RCT2. I know thats certainly the reason RoB was so popular. I try to make parks, not creative ideas. RoB was a park, not a creative idea.

Ok so I ranted on in that last paragraph, and its hard to understand where im coming from, but I just feel NE is losing its old school, kind of exclusive feel. You no longer have to be a good parkmaker to advertise here, back in the day a bad park was tore to shreds, but in a constructive way, only the best people from sites such as the Station and Danimation would make it here. Now we have generally bad people advertising here, thats another reason why the quality of runner ups has deteriated so much.

Anywho, im going completely off on one now, so im gonna round it up with this:

iris, your a legend, keep doing what you doing, just as we parkmakers do. Parkmakers, keep doing what your doing. Useless people, become useful or disapear.

Now im outie, for a long time. I'll still be making parks, and its totaly down to how things pan out in the community weather or not I release them. I would feel like I was letting myself down tho, if I didnt release my work. I guess the most important thing to me aside from the fun in the game, is seeing where iris would put it amoung all the other parks.

l8rs

I think a great remedy for "beautifying" the forums and ridding of the junk spam crap would be to get more moderators and to just get rid of the generally stupid and useless forums that don't really generate any positive for NE. Freespeak is useless [IMO] if you have a viable topic, "freely" speak about something worthwhile in Basic Chat. And Troubled Crowd has gone to hell. It used to be about actual problems, now it's worthless garbage.

I would agree with voodoo about parks nowadays not being theme parks. It seems more about being inventive and creating something that isn't RCT than about making a classic themed park. It really is depressing, too. I would say I fall under that category. I don't want to continue with stuff after seeing the response from different things that look alien to RCT. They're getting positive response, whilst a "run-of-the-mill" park gets the "oh, it's been done before" and "it's getting repetitive" replies. That is really discouraging and I don't necessarily think the "inventive" things are all that great. Sure, they might be cool, but it just doesn't have the same atmosphere. It just isn't the same. I personally love classic Fatha' parks, I loved BGSS, many people think he needs to be original, but all of his stuff is amazing, it doesn't matter if it looks similiar, it is still wonderful. I love the classic theme park style, no matter how many times the theme has been done. If you can add anything, anything at all, to make it your own unique piece of work, it is worth it to me.

I know that now, as my own contribution, I will look at the parks and updates iris posts, and actually respond to them, no matter what game or how small they're for. I have been rude not showing appreciation for it, and that's disgusting. I appreciate everything that is done for this website, and I'd love to have the chance to help out with specifics in anyway I can. I find the Top 100 Rides, The List, Hi Rollers, NE Pro Tour, and all other things on here very unique and I love it all. I'd hate to be without a NE now.

I would also hope this "Next-Wave" of parkmakers don't lose the classic park feel. I'd hate for us all to end up making things totally unlike what a theme park is. We all need to step it up, quit being shy about parks, and realize that our talent, no matter how small, is worth something to this community in some way or another.

So with that babbling, I'd like to sincerly thank iris for everything he's ever done for NE. I appreciate it, sorry for not showing my appreciation by contributing how I should with productive posts, and park submissions. I've finally realized that what I do is a contribution, and it will help to sustain NE.

Its just no longer about theme parks, which I find disturbing, and IMO its runining the feel of the game. Maybe thats why people claim my work is like RCT reinvented in RCT2. I know thats certainly the reason RoB was so popular. I try to make parks, not creative ideas. RoB was a park, not a creative idea.

I guess times change, and I dont know how to counter the downhill trend that the community is going through, but I blame it on the fact that certain non productive members of the community now have a bigger rep than the parkmakers. How can this be? Its because they repeatadly post shit they think is funny, when in effect its just a form of using other peoples mis fortune and mocking other members to make them selves move up in the heirachy.

Most of the reason that I left is because of the attitude here. I still browse the forums and I still see all the things that made me leave. What you said about parks being creative ideas is dead on. I personally am far more attracted to realistic parks then these bullshit landscapes with buildings and an impossible coaster somewhere inside. Hacking took it way too far, especially with rides that aren't even on tracks.

I want to see this place lighten up and prosper, with some realistic parks. I think that if everybody went back to making theme parks like voodoo said, it would be a hell of a lot better. I would most definately start posting and making parks again if I saw that same committment from the rest of the community. But, sadly, it seems that that will never happen. I think everybody forgot what made them come here in the first place.

Stop being stupid, people.

Interesting topic this is. I have enjoyed reading what you guys have said so far and you have all made really good points. I think this is the reason why I may not enjoy RCT so much. Since most people (including me) scrap the entire idea, It makes me loose motivation, especially since some parks were starting to look very nice, and maybe phenomenal.

I don't post often, mostly because I never have anything to say really, but for a safe future for NE, I will try to post more often on spotlights, runner-ups and other updates like that. But I do have to agree, some people really do destroy the 'mood' here at NE. People who spam most of time and saying we have no lives. I'm sure most if not all of us do. It really pisses me off when useless spammers, like forceogG for example, register on multiple accounts and say how pathetic we are for playing a game.

People have also made a few good points on how RCT is loosing its feel and becoming more like Sim City. I personally hate that game. Always thought it was boring. That explains why I probably don't enjoy RCT so much. The lack of coasters and thrill rides in a park. RoB was such a nice refreshment of what RCT is really about. This has made me focus on rides more, rather than detailed architecture. If a park could combine both of those, like they used to, I think things would get a lot better around here, and prevent people from leaving. It will make them want to come back here and have fun.

Well, everyone else has already stated the rest of my thoughts, so I'll just stop there. No need to repeat anything already said. But, this has really made me want to play the game. Which is a good thing.


Kraken

EDIT - On another note, lets try not to get to serious about a game. I read what Panic said and he is right.

You can't force people to build what you want. Times change, and tastes and styles change along too. Most of the reason people hack is because realistic parks are getting boring. Rct as a whole is getting boring. But I would really wish that I could build that I did before NE. I really do.

I propose iris has a contest in which you make a park like they were a long time ago at Danimation. No hacks whatsoever. (Or atleast very small amount) Parks like Moonlight Magic or Legends West. I think this will bring back the fun aspect of rct and really get some people motovated. Heck, we could even have peep access! I love peeps.... I think we should really do this.

Well, I have to admit, I've been discouraged by the state of the advertising district as of late. I can't stand all the people (who truth be told really aren't very good parkmakers yet) commenting on other peoples work as if they're experts. Comments like change the red to blue, or the tree selection sucks are as bad as spam imo. If I were to have come here with the present state of affairs, I would likely have never stayed. I can look past all the crap because I'm used to it, but it must be overwhelming for newcomers. I'm not saying we should all kiss each others asses, but what ever happened to the atmosphere of creativity and expression that I used to feel here. It's funny, but you really don't notice it slipping away until it's almost too late.

This thread is serving a purpose tho. Hopefully we can save this and make this place fun again. As a mod, I'd be willing to patrol things anyway that Iris wants, but really the decision has to be his on how things are run and what type of posts are allowed. I have however decided to spend less time on the boards and more time making parks. I need RCT to be an escapist, fun hobby so I'm going to make an effort to get that back.

As for park styles, I like them all. I am sad that the classic style park is not as common as it once was, but I'm hoping RoB opens that genre up again. I still think building a beautiful park in the style of Moonlight Magic or RoB takes as much if not more skill that building the far out hack-filled parks that seem to be so prominent today.

Anyway, I'm hoping this is not the beginning of the end, but rather a resurgence of what this place should be to parkmakers. It's strange how many people have noticed this, but that no one has spoken up til now. I think a lot of us are discouraged that things don't seem fun anymore.

Wow, this is so amazing. Finally others are annoyed by the situation we are in. I've been since half a year, really...
NE keeps going downhill since a long time and made all of it's good parkmakers leave. Now I don't consider myself as one of them but if I'd have the strength like SA then I'd leave too. My hopes that this place is going to get better again are stronger though.
I agree on alot of you guys' points and I must say I love you. For example, what voodoo said about parks is something I'm going to put in my signature after posting this. We're not here to come up with creative ideas, we're here to make parks. Realism is something that every park should be based on. No matter what crazy colours and shapes it has, as long as it is supposed to be a theme park, everything is fine. Look at Harakiri's work. He was exactly building like that. I would never ever call him a "crazy" parkmaker since his parks are pure realism put into innovative and daring looks which managed to appeal to alot of people in the end.

What I consider as NE's main problem is as follows...

I blame it on the fact that certain non productive members of the community now have a bigger rep than the parkmakers. How can this be?

iris, I know you want freedom of speach here and that's perfectly fine, but in my opinion you're more like letting kids spam all over the place. I don't want it to be all that serious here, but there has to be at least a bit of seriousness to keep things going. People are really doing what they want. The community has totally lost it's aim. Everyone has his own. It's one big mess.
I agree that it's bullshit not to allow invectives but there should be a bit more seriousness to reach an appropriate behaviour of the community.

Then about RCT2. It's true that it looks either like SimCity or Age Of Empires nowadays. I believe that many people changed to it because it was new and all they're doing now is failing at it because they're missing the constancy to finish an RCT2 park. The good guys are basically only making scenery and then one or two buildings with that, which they advertise... fullstop.
I'm worried since quite a while that this situation would reach NE. Now it has and I don't believe we'll get out of it.

Wow, this is certainly the most interesting topic I have stumbled upon at NE in a while.

As for the degeneration of NE, although I have obviously not been around half as long as many of you guys, its very easy to tell that the site is in a "drough" of sorts. Like others have said, the best indicator of this is the quality of the recent runner-ups, along with the lack of work itself. The quality of work has truly deteriorated, at least as of late to the point that it seems this site is slowly losing its focus on RCT itself.

I see too many new members come onto this site, with high hopes in RCT (whether it be 1 or 2), post there screens hoping for constructive criticism, and more than often receiving meaningless bullshit from more than one person. From this point on, many of these "new members" lose interest in the game becuase they feel they suck (as this community can be very intimidating). What is interesting, and I think detrimental to the success of this site, is that they stick around due this sites addicting nature. So many members are here with nothing to contribute in the world of RCT. Don't get me wrong though, i'm not saying that all members have to play RCT. I think there are many of you guys who don't play anymore that contribute greatly to the site (QOTSA, Pym, SFK, many others) but there are those who don't contribute but rather hinder this site with all the meaningless bullshit they post.

In an attemp to solve these problems, I agree totally with John, as I have discussed with him. We could certianly use some help from the moderators in clening out this site. I think we could retain the ideal of free speech that iris desires, while still improving the overall quality of the site.

As for the state of RCT itself at the site, its easy to see that there is a drought, but I really think that there will be a jumpstart in the coming months, especially with Park Wars, H2H3, and the Pro Tour. But most importantly, I don't think we need to force members to make parks. Thats no solution.

Just make parks for the fun of it.

Sorry if I babbled on. I'll try and do my part to contribute too. I think I'll advertise a lot of the work I have been so quiet about lately...

10 Signs NE is NOT DEAD

--------

Sure, the recent runner ups sucked a lot. But NE is not dying. Here's 10 Reasons why:

1) The NE Invitational-
Huge Success, 3 amazing megaparks released. NOICE.

2) Hi Rollers-
When I saw bigfoots entry get 20th place, I was sure that a mistake had been made. There is nooo way that this is the worst one! Well, 20 amazing entries to cap off an exciting contest. Too bad so many people dropped out, but what was entered was class.

3) Up and Comers
Anyone seen anything from the koreans lately? How about voodoo or slob? CBass? Micool? A whole new group of parkmakers is stepping forward.

4) H2H2.
HUGE Success. Battlefield RCT? Erwindale? Villa de Lumieres? Exciting matchups. Cutthroat rivalry. Amazing playoffs. Wow.

5) The Pro Tour Qualifiers
Some of the rounds were okay, but some were great. The hotels, the rapids, the movies (and hopefully the video games). And the good news...of all the quality entries, NONE of them were from parkmakers.

6) Toontowner's scenery. And his IOA park.

7) It's expected
After a new game is released, people need time to get used to it. People have finished their preliminary screwing around, getting the right scenery, and I think 256's are on there way. It's a matter of time.

People Care
The existance of this thread shows.

9) Improvement
Erm, when parks that are spotlight quality are actually "outdated" that means that a hella lot of improvement has been going on.

10) The future
Park Wars, H2H3, Pro Tour, the collabo's, all very promising.



Thank you.

slob, where was my name under the "meaningless bullshit catagory"

anways, too many of thise damn sorrow topics, get happy people.

any Glitchwolf post is anything but meaningless bullshit to me.

If you can read large red arial print, I think you can understand why.