General Chat / Official Return of the King Chat

That film is amazing. Minas Tirith wasn't how I had imagined it at all... but still immense. The end did drag a bit... the Samwise bit right at the end was unnecessary.

Can someone tell me... where are the ships going? And why did they (the elves) come in the first place? Why does Gandalf go as well?

I'm seeing king this sunday,so I hope it's good...
I haven't been here in a long while,so i'll take a look around to see what's new.

That film is amazing. Minas Tirith wasn't how I had imagined it at all... but still immense. The end did drag a bit... the Samwise bit right at the end was unnecessary.

Can someone tell me... where are the ships going? And why did they (the elves) come in the first place? Why does Gandalf go as well?

The ships are going to the Grey Havens - it's like another world where all the elves and people go to be immortal etc. I guess The Silmarillion would have more info, or the ROTK appendix.

Gandalf goes because he's basically a valar placed in the body of a wizard for the third age of time. And once the battle is over his time is up in Middle Earth so he goes back where he started.

At least that's as much as I can remember

So Frodo's reward is immortality? Nice. I think the film needed to explain that though...

Now for His Dark Materials... only 4 years to wait.

The only way Frodo could carry on living without succumbing to the wound from the Witch King's knife would be to go to the Grey Havens (i think).

HDM will either do a LOTR (and be fucking amazing) or be slightly disappointing (harry potter).

I'm hoping it's the former, because the books are the best i've read and IOREK RULES.

A few things

1) The ships are sailing to Valinor. The Grey Havens is that harbor they are leaving from.

2) Frodo is not given immortality, he will die because he is still mortal.

What the films don't tell you is that after all that, Sam eventually sailed west to Valinor as did Legolas and Gimli. Merry and Pippin died in Middle Earth and their "beds" were placed side by side with Aragorn at Mina Tirith.

As for favorite moments... In no order of course

1) The Ride of the Rohirrim- Theoden's speech and the charge defines the word epic

2) Faramir's suicide attack with Pippin singing.

3) Everything at Mount Doom, especially Sam's "I cannot carry this burden for you, But I can carry YOU!"

4) The Black Gate- Aragorn's speech and his slow turnaround when he whispers "for Frodo" before charging. I also loved that Merry and Pippin were the first two to follow him to certain doom, a nice touch.

5) Every single second of the ending. "My friends, you bow to no one". "Middle Earth was saved Sam, but not for me."

6) Eowyn and the Witch King of Angmar

7) Lighting the beacons

Shelob

9) Suprisingly enough, Arwen's vision in the forest. A very nice touch.

10) The Eagles might be the coolest Deus ex Machina ever.

I'm probably forgetting alot, but I think you get the message.

I thought that Frodo left in the ships because he was a Ringbearer, like Gandalf, and Elrond, and the Lady of Lothlorien??? And I also thought that the ringbearers became immortal.. and I also thought that nobody who sailed to Valinor died?? I guess I'm wrong.

VTD, what do you mean by EE? Do you mean TT? Too bad, really, that would have made for a great bonus on the DVD set I'm expecting next november.

He means that bonus set, dude! The Extended Edition = EE.

I thought that Frodo left in the ships because he was a Ringbearer, like Gandalf, and Elrond, and the Lady of Lothlorien??? And I also thought that the ringbearers became immortal.. and I also thought that nobody who sailed to Valinor died?? I guess I'm wrong.

VTD, what do you mean by EE? Do you mean TT? Too bad, really, that would have made for a great bonus on the DVD set I'm expecting next november.

He was allowed to go to Valinor because he was a ringbearer, he went because the shire was not for him anymore and he was never going to recover from his old wounds (the Nazgul blade wound, but though it is not mentioned in the film, Frodo got very sick every year on the anniversary of the destruction of the ring).

Well, since most people that sail to valinor are elves, they don't... but Frodo is not given immortality.

I meant ROTK extended edition.

I saw it yesterday when i went with my school, it was awsome!
Those ghost things were the best. But it dragged on to long towards the end.
Everybody there thought it finished and cheered but it come back on again. It happened about 3 times
Loopy

I thought the film was incredible, all of it was excellent. I thought the end did go o just a bit too long, I nearly got up to leave in some places because it was the end, but then it changed to another scene. I think it does it on purpose a bit because when Frodo does his book he says" and it's not finished yet". Then it turns to the next scene when you probably thought when he closed the book that was it.

But overall a brilliant film

I have some gripes, and some praises, mostly praises, but first the gripes

I thought Minas Tirith was a bit steep, but thats just an interperetive thing.

They left out one of my favorite parts of ROTK, the voice of Sauron coming out and arguing with Gandlaf before getting pissed and running back into the gates, to return with his huge army

Frodo and Sam were never picked up as rogue orcs because of their armour, but I can understand that, it would have dragged the movie out was too long.

No wild men leading the Rohirrim through the forest? oh well

Didn't like how they handled the paths of the dead, i always imagined Aragorn simply walking in and taking the road, with Gimli and Legolas paranoid through the entire passage, sounds of people following them, and once they come out the other side an erourmous army of undead soldiers would be following them,

the book described no banter between Aragorn and the Dead King, and that scene was no where near as scary as it should have been.

And my favorite part was not there, Eomer standing defeated on the Pellenor taking up Theoden's banner and giving his little speech right before Aragorn shows up on the ships.

Out of doubt, out of dark to the day's rising
I came singing in the sun, sword unsheathing.
To hope's end I rode and heart's breaking
Now for wrath, now for ruin and a red nightfall.
Praises

Grond was great, with the fire in mouth and all the orcs chanting "grond! grond! grond!"

Loved the Haradrim

Shelob was perfect, just how I imagined her

Minas Morgul and Cirith Ungol are perfect

the Witch King and Eowyn was great, ripped right from John Howe's painting (I have been lucky enough to get to talk to John Howe through the process of this)


The army attacking Minas Tirith was perfect as well

and my favorite part of the movie, the lighting of the beacons, beautifully done.

I can't believe I almost cried at the end.

I thought that Frodo left in the ships because he was a Ringbearer, like Gandalf, and Elrond, and the Lady of Lothlorien???   And I also thought that the ringbearers became immortal.. and I also thought that nobody who sailed to Valinor died?? I guess I'm wrong.

VTD, what do you mean by EE? Do you mean TT?   Too bad, really, that would have made for a great bonus on the DVD set I'm expecting next november.

He was allowed to go to Valinor because he was a ringbearer, he went because the shire was not for him anymore and he was never going to recover from his old wounds (the Nazgul blade wound, but though it is not mentioned in the film, Frodo got very sick every year on the anniversary of the destruction of the ring).

Well, since most people that sail to valinor are elves, they don't... but Frodo is not given immortality.

I meant ROTK extended edition.

I thought Frodo go sick on the anniversary of his Nazgul stab wound and the Shelob bite/sting, not on the anniversary of the ring's destruction.

Didn't like how they handled the paths of the dead, i always imagined Aragorn simply walking in and taking the road, with Gimli and Legolas paranoid through the entire passage, sounds of people following them, and once they come out the other side an erourmous army of undead soldiers would be following them,

The book describes the scene as Aragorn riding through the Paths of the Dead. His will was so strong that he forced everyone to follow him, and the horses trust so high that they went with their riders. Just a bit of detail.

More Commentary Banter:
The lighting of the beacons was amazing too. If you relinquish reality for a moment and just pretend that was real, it'd be amazing.

Funny point: Sam discovers the lembas is gone. Golum scratches his head wondering where it went. That was hilarious.

The Witch King is TALL!!

I went back and read the part where Eowyn killed the Witch King. The movie made it a bit more realistic, having her behead the fell beast in TWO strokes rather than the book's one. Too bad Eowyn and Merry end up apparently not too hurt from their encounter.

Billy Boyd's song was just beautiful, and juxtaposing that to Faramir's suicide ride to Osgiliath was very haunting.

Dethenor was treated badly, IMO. He's basically like another villian / Gandalf's bitch. He's evil, cold, heartless. And he gets whacked by Gandalf when the situation arises. They should have made him a sort of tweener until the final part, where he goes to the tower and looks into the palantir and loses his mind. For that matter, they should have mentioned the importance of his having one of the three remaining palantir.

Another detail nitpick, but when you have a film this good, you can do that.... at the end, when they mentioned the three elven ring bearers, it would have been nice to do a quick cut to the fingers of Elrond, Galadriel, and Gandalf, revealing that they were the three Elven ringbearers.

And finally, how I would have done the last half hour, cinematically:
- Eagles rescue Frodo and Sam. The camera follows the eagles for a bit, then pans to the sun where the screen fades to white, then back to Frodo waking up. Cue the slo-mo, and play the reunion celebration.
- Fade to black
- Open to Aragorn's coronation
- Fade into the group's return to the shire
- Play the bar scene in regular speed, not slow motion
- Have Sam and Rosie interact, zoom up to their faces, zoom back out to their wedding (this scene done in regular speed too, not slo-mo)
- Fade to Frodo finishing his book
- Cut to Bilbo's journey
- Cut to final goodbye (but go easy on the slo-mos here too)
- Boat sails out of the Gray Havens
- Fade to Sam's return
- Fade to black.

Basically, it would have been much more effective for that entire last sequence to use a total of two fade to blacks (instead of like five) and have less slow motion. It was a pretty obvious (and possibly superficial) ploy at emotion in an attempt to grab an Oscar or something, but it did drag the movie a bit. Obviously, you have to have an epilogue after the eagle's rescue Frodo and Sam, but everything after that seemed like it was going in slow motion. Speed it up a bit, basically, and it would have been perfect. Ten minutes probably would have been sufficient, since it gives the ending enough importance to not be an afterthought yet doesn't bore or disappoint the audience, which is coming off the climactic high and is probably tired out by now.

Ed, since you do cinematography, I'd like to read your comments to my proposal. And vTd too, since he seems to know his movies.

Just a few perfectionistic details.

I thought that Frodo left in the ships because he was a Ringbearer, like Gandalf, and Elrond, and the Lady of Lothlorien???   And I also thought that the ringbearers became immortal.. and I also thought that nobody who sailed to Valinor died?? I guess I'm wrong.

VTD, what do you mean by EE? Do you mean TT?   Too bad, really, that would have made for a great bonus on the DVD set I'm expecting next november.

He was allowed to go to Valinor because he was a ringbearer, he went because the shire was not for him anymore and he was never going to recover from his old wounds (the Nazgul blade wound, but though it is not mentioned in the film, Frodo got very sick every year on the anniversary of the destruction of the ring).

Well, since most people that sail to valinor are elves, they don't... but Frodo is not given immortality.

I meant ROTK extended edition.

I thought Frodo go sick on the anniversary of his Nazgul stab wound and the Shelob bite/sting, not on the anniversary of the ring's destruction.



The book describes the scene as Aragorn riding through the Paths of the Dead. His will was so strong that he forced everyone to follow him, and the horses trust so high that they went with their riders. Just a bit of detail.

More Commentary Banter:
The lighting of the beacons was amazing too. If you relinquish reality for a moment and just pretend that was real, it'd be amazing.

Funny point: Sam discovers the lembas is gone. Golum scratches his head wondering where it went. That was hilarious.

The Witch King is TALL!!

I went back and read the part where Eowyn killed the Witch King. The movie made it a bit more realistic, having her behead the fell beast in TWO strokes rather than the book's one. Too bad Eowyn and Merry end up apparently not too hurt from their encounter.

Billy Boyd's song was just beautiful, and juxtaposing that to Faramir's suicide ride to Osgiliath was very haunting.

Dethenor was treated badly, IMO. He's basically like another villian / Gandalf's bitch. He's evil, cold, heartless. And he gets whacked by Gandalf when the situation arises. They should have made him a sort of tweener until the final part, where he goes to the tower and looks into the palantir and loses his mind. For that matter, they should have mentioned the importance of his having one of the three remaining palantir.

Another detail nitpick, but when you have a film this good, you can do that.... at the end, when they mentioned the three elven ring bearers, it would have been nice to do a quick cut to the fingers of Elrond, Galadriel, and Gandalf, revealing that they were the three Elven ringbearers.

And finally, how I would have done the last half hour, cinematically:
- Eagles rescue Frodo and Sam. The camera follows the eagles for a bit, then pans to the sun where the screen fades to white, then back to Frodo waking up. Cue the slo-mo, and play the reunion celebration.
- Fade to black
- Fade into the group's return to the shire
- Play the bar scene in regular speed, not slow motion
- Have Sam and Rosie interact, zoom up to their faces, zoom back out to their wedding (this scene done in regular speed too, not slo-mo)
- Fade to Frodo finishing his book
- Cut to Bilbo's journey
- Cut to final goodbye (but go easy on the slo-mos here too)
- Boat sails out of the Gray Havens
- Fade to black.

Basically, it would have been much more effective for that entire last sequence to use a total of two fade to blacks (instead of like five) and have less slow motion. It was a pretty obvious (and possibly superficial) ploy at emotion in an attempt to grab an Oscar or something, but it did drag the movie a bit. Obviously, you have to have an epilogue after the eagle's rescue Frodo and Sam, but everything after that seemed like it was going in slow motion. Speed it up a bit, basically, and it would have been perfect. Ten minutes probably would have been sufficient, since it gives the ending enough importance to not be an afterthought yet doesn't bore or disappoint the audience, which is coming off the climactic high and is probably tired out by now.

Ed, since you do cinematography, I'd like to read your comments to my proposal. And vTd too, since he seems to know his movies.

Just a few perfectionistic details.

He got sick on the anniversary of the stab and the anniversary of the ring's destruction.

And your "improved" ending sucks for the simple reason it doesn't include Sam's "well, I'm back" or Aragorn's coronation. I found the ending to be perfect as is.

Whoops! Include all of that. It's basically the same scenes in order, but with the editting sped up a bit and fixed. The same scenes remain, though.

So lemme go back and fix that.

I really liked to movie to a great extent. Eagles= nice. Battering ram= sweet. Trebuchets= i want one. I wouldnt change the movie's end just because i have no idea how to.

I think we all know who the coolest guy was though That whole Miinas Morgul scene with the gate and the electricity and the fell beast..!

i dont remember that, remind me again.

My mom loves Vigo...is that bad?