Park Wars / Park Wars Info

Alright, I'm excited about the new Park Wars season and since it's still a long way off, we have plenty of time to talk about the rules and tweak the game to make it better. I made some suggestions in the sign up topic and I've listed them here and added a few more so we can talk about them.

1]More polls to score extra points or status points (see#2) or maybe just for fun:
'Best Value' (dependent on number of rides and stuff not entry cost)
'Best Ad Campaign' (for that month)
'Best Layout' (how easy it is to get to everything)
'Best Location' (landscaping and lakes or mountains)

2]Some kind of status point system in addition to the park points used to construct coasters. Should the game be won by who has the most park points as before (encouraging people to hoard them) or should the parkmakers be motivated to improve their parks to win status points? This would complicate the game greatly and change the strategy so this issue is not to be taken lightly.

3]Quests issued each month that parkmakers may choose to fulfill as part of their update to earn extra points. This could be a way to guarantee some points if given to everybody or maybe only the first 2 to fulfill the quest and submit their parks get points or maybe judges decide on which did it best and only that one gets points. One example would be 'Build a new prototype ride'.

4]Small rule changes throughout the game that require people to revize what they have already built in previous months. Parks don't just add new sections as they expand, they also make improvements throughout and this would ensure more changes from month to month. The example I had before would be 'The World Amusement Park Federation has just passed a new law requiring all parks be accesible to handicapped persons.' So then everyone would have to add ramps everywhere. Not a very good example, but you get the idea. Maybe something requiring parks to add vegetarian dining options would make more sense. In a sadistic way I also like the idea of a G-Force limit law that would force people to add trim brakes. Then we could add a poll for 'Most Horribly Butchered Coaster'

5]Technology progresses throughout the game starting at perhaps a 1970 level and advancing a decade at a time. I don't really like this idea myself but I mentioned it before so I might as well add it to the list.

6]Team specific rules to accurately reflect the differences between the park chains. I don't know what these could be but if the game continues into a third or fourth season I think it would be good to have these so people would think more about which chain they choose and there could maybe be a handicap/bonus (like extra starting points) for choosing particular park chains or perhaps the rules themselves will be the handicap or bonus.

7]Advertising should be as much a part of the game as the parks themselves because there's a whole month between park installments during which time you should be generating interest. Maybe there could be a poll taken right before the new updates go up where the forum members can vote which park they most want to visit on the basis of that month's advertising. This is the kind of thing where one or two teams will probably be winning it the whole game but it would add another aspect to the game anyway.

8]Randomly selected events for each park for each month. They couldn't be anything that would change the game too much. Perhaps a coaster company offer to build a particular coaster type that month at a reduced cost or an accident forcing you to remove an old free fall ride. I'm taking my cue here from boardgames and the randomness this would add may not be desireable. Something to discuss anyway.

9]Maybe some kind of space limitation. Real parks often have to remove older rides to add new ones and in later months it might be cool if we ran out of room for expansions and had to start rennovating instead.

10]This is just a question for iris. How many months do you think the contest will run? It would be nice to know ahead of time to determine how to pace the updates.

See there's a tendency to plan everything out before hand because that's how many of us are used to building parks. The way park wars was run before was fun but I think if others are willing to go along with some of these ideas we can improve the game to the point where everyone will want to sign up for the next park wars when they see how much fun we're having. I think this could be our chance to improve the 'tycoon' strategy aspect of the game to a much more satisfying level. Some of these suggestions are meant to add some more character to the game and each of the parks and some change the strategy. These would also increase the job of the people running the game so if we do agree to add some of these it might be good to find some more people to assist in writing the monthly rules changes and such.

So anyway, add your comments or suggestions or respond to mine. We can make this a place for questions too about anything related to the game. Folks not signed up to participate, feel free to add your input as well. This is for all of NE not just the people making the parks.

okay, i got lots of ideas (excuse the unorganized way of posting this)
first few: ways of getting points
-Best Steel Coater
-Best Wooden Coaster
-Best Park
-Best Theming
-Best Themed Area
-Best Layout
-Best Custom Flatride
-Best Water Ride
-Best Water Park
-Best Advertising (In forums)
-Best Tree Selection
-Best Food
-Best Bathrooms
-Most Beautiful
-Best/Most Detail
-Best New Creative Ride
-Best Landscaping
-Best Archiecture
-Best Ride Station
-Best Hotel
-Best Custom Supports
-Best Use of Colour
-Best Colour Scheme (For A Ride)
-Most Realistic
-Most Insane Ride
-Best Que Line
-Best Live Show (Includes Seats, Effects etc...)
-Best New Addition
-Best Dark Ride
-Park That Keeps With Company Realism Best (eg... Does a disney park look like a disney park better than a six flags park look like a six flags park)
-Ugliest Park (like an aid fund)
'Best Ad Campaign'
'Best Location'
'Best Value'
--RECORDS--
STEEL
-Most Inverions
-Tallest
-Longest
-Fastest
-Best Ratings
WOODEN
-Most Inverions
-Tallest
-Longest
-Fastest
-Best Ratings


I like alot of your ideas coasterED, you really have some great ones. The only one i'm not liking is number 5. 6 sounds like it would be hard to enforce. As for number 9, that might come into play, depending on how long the game lasts.

I think for the record awards there should just be a log of what the record holders are and you get points for breaking a record but you don't get points the next month for the same ride. In other words you score points for placing on the record list not by holding the record for a certain number of months. And I tend to think that placing in any of the record categories should earn you the same number of points so parks can compete either by trying to build a ride long, tall, or with tons of inversions not just everyone trying to build the tallest ride. Something for everyone. This is how real parks compete in a way because holding any record earns your park a kind of prestige. I think stats are irrelevant but I know others feel differently about that so I would be willing to go along with that anyway.

There are a couple decisions to be made about the feel of the game that will kinda determine which ideas are used. Most of the ideas I've suggested are aimed at making the game more interactive and more like managing a park chain and ultimately more fun, not just competitive. That's one way to go. We could also go the more competitive parkmaker route and give awards for things like stats, best station building, best custom flatride, best hacking, most creative ride etc. Those kinds of things would more reward skill in RCT. I guess we'll probably end up with a mixture of both. There's also two ways we could go with the polls. Either there are a ton of polls for everything so everyone is pretty much guaranteed a few points and a few parks will rake in tons or we select only a few polls and make everybody scrounge for points. That decision will affect the game a lot.

I'd like to see certain chains being awarded more points than others. For example, Six Flags could get around 70 and smaller chains like Europa could get 40 or whatever. However, each chain has it's limitations. For Disney, there could be a rule of no more than two new thrill rides per year, older chains like Blackpool must have some older, traditional type rides and coasters, and Paramount could be charged a bit of points for extra theming.
And in certain areas, by-laws could be passed preventing excessive G-forces (e.g. New Jersey) or setting height restrictions (e.g. Alton Towers). Just some ideas.

Fuck that....too many limitations=too much hassle.

hmm complication
Im with mantis, too many limitations..

Isnt it easier to just make a park along the lines of the company you have chosen...Then the awards will be awarded for the best rides etc...(taking some ideas from nate)

There's already a no limitations contest...it's called "spotlight". I'm up to the challenge of park wars.

I guess the main reason I'm making all these suggestions is that I was a coaster nut before I was an RCT nut so as much as I like talking about RCT, I'd also like to see this contest bring in more aspects of real rollercoasters and amusement parks. This site already has the Spotlight and H2H and now Survivor which are all contests of RCT skill, and I think Park Wars has the potential to be more than just another 'this park is the best so it wins' competition. I also like huge complicated boardgames but the important thing about boardgames is that usually the best ones have far more strategies for winning than they have rules. The idea is to complicate the game enough that people become more actively involved without complicating so much that everyone is confused.

im with u ed,i want complex rules and restrictions

Bah. I know nothing about real life or realism and whatnot so i'd suck at that.

I'm all for complex rules just as long as I don't have to be all realistic and only be allowed to build a side friction and a fucking helicopter ride each year

Well the idea is to get people to be more involved and build more each month not less. We can just throw out the idea of restricted technology right now as clearly no one likes that idea. Besides, we all want to have fun and build cool rides not lame old side friction coasters. I doubt anyone will agree now to having less points to start than another team. That may be something to think about for the next season though. If we do give some teams less points to spend on coasters we have to make up the difference somehow either by giving them more status points or a free ride of some kind or more space, etc. Something to keep it balanced. One idea I had is that the Six Flags chain can build any coaster type at a reduced price if they make it a clone of an existing Six Flags coaster. This would make it tough for them to win the 'best coaster' categories but it would give them a leg up in having the most coasters and that's really what Six Flags is known for anyway. That to me would be a reasonable team rule.

Idea: Let Ed serve as executive producer for Park Wars.

Idea: Stop taking the fun out of RCT by giving it even more restrictions then it all ready has.

Idea: Stop taking the fun out of RCT by giving it even more restrictions then it all ready has.

Why not TPM?
It's not like you've released a park anyway...
Let Ed & I institute some new rules for those that actually play the game, that way its more challenging, and orignal.

Why not TPM?
It's not like you've released a park anyway...
Let Ed & I institute some new rules for those that actually play the game, that way its more challenging, and orignal.

On tpms behalf he does play the game again and has improved a lot....And plus, me and mantis also said we didnt care much for it..

But its your decision so..
Ill do anything now..

Maybe I haven't released a park but that doesn't mean I don't play the game. You might have forgotten but I did come 3rd in BB challenge, have done two H2H parks, did a lot on SoV, submitted an NE Design which you never released because it was apparently too much like one Mort submitted at the same time (which also never got released), am a few weeks away from releasing BS (you can hardly say I have taken a long time to get it done, look at Troy), am entering Hi-Rollers and have a new solo 25% done which you didn't even know about because I don't kiss ass like 99% of the people around here and show it to you every time I place a new tree.

I have been playing RCT for 3+ years so I think I have a pretty valid opinion when it comes to judging what I think is good and not so good about a contest and I personally believe it wouldn't make the contest as good if you limited the game even more then it all ready is. People all ready complain about how limited RCT1 is so I see no sense in limiting it anymore just because Ed and a few others want it more realistic.

You may want it more realistic as well, that’s fine as it's obviously down to you in the end so go ahead, but if you keep shaping contests to please you, you cant expect everyone else to rush to join in and then get pissed off when you don't get 1,000 people finishing in two days.

Alright, two things.

1] I'm not trying to make it more realistic. I know that NO's original idea for Park Wars was based in realism but I like the way it was taken when it debuted here at NE, much more open to different styles. That's one reason why I think we need more than just points for coasters but also some way of rewarding creativity and maybe hacking ability and all sorts of rides. The idea is to make it more open not more restrictive. This is why I opened this up for discussion. A rule is not the same thing as a restriction and I think most of the suggestions I've made add to the game without taking anything away.

2]I've said this before but I'll say it again. NE already has a lot of ways to just build. Submit a spotlight or weekly design, play in h2h or survivor, or just work on a park yourself or with others. Every RCT site has always had that option and no one is going to take it away. There hasn't been an option yet that is more than just building a park and voting on the best one. I've seen a number of attempts at this where people signed up for coaster building and park building teams but none of them ever got off the ground. All I want to do is give the site one competition that does something more. The game would play the same for those that just wanted to build with a few changes like the added option of scoring points for RCT skills as well as coasters and rides and maybe some small adjustments you'd have to make each month in addition to what you were already going to build. I can't emphasize enough that nothing will be allowed that will totally alter the balance of the game or take the fun out of it. For those that want to be more involved in the amusement park simulation aspect there could be options for them as well. This way more people have fun.

Like I said earlier, we have a lot of time to talk about this and suggest new options and make sure everyone is happy before we start. If in the end nobody likes what we've come up with, than it just goes back to the old way but I think we should at least try to create something new. And let's not turn every discussion into a personal matter please. Just because myself or somebody else suggests an idea does not mean it will be in the game.

---EDIT---

I tweaked the polls a bit and picked some of Natelox's suggestions and this is what i came up with. Three polls total each of which contains around 8 categories. I don't know how easy it was to set up that poll for the NE Awards or how easy it would be to do that on a regular basis, but I think that would be the best way to handle the voting. Then the forum wouldn't fill up with pages and pages of polls and all the questions would be grouped together conveniently. Here are the three polls I worked up, and of course feel free to make comments as to what should go, what should be added and why.

1] RCT Player's Poll
Best Architecture
Best Theming
Most Creative Park
Most Creative Ride
Best Trees and Landscaping
Best Hacking
Best Custom Flatride
Best Overall Skill

2]Coaster Enthusiast's Poll
Best Wooden Coaster
Best Steel Coaster
Best Waterride
Best New Wooden Coaster
Best New Steel Coaster
Best New Waterride
Best Dark Ride
Best Live Show

3]World Park Review Board Poll
Best Park
Most Beautiful Park
Most Improved Park
Best Layout
Best Variety of Food/Shopping
Best Ride Selection (anything non-coaster)
Best Waterpark
Best Value

I wanted to add a total insanity award like Nate suggested to the coaster poll and best themed area to the RCT poll but I'm not sure how to handle the nominations. In every other category the nominations would be automatic but I'm not sure yet about how to fit those two in. Then there's the issue of records which don't need to be voted on. Here's the list I had going:

4]Guiness World Record Book
Tallest Wooden Coaster
Fastest Wooden Coaster
Longest Wooden Coaster
Best Wooden Coaster Stats
Tallest Steel Coaster
Fastest Steel Coaster
Longest Steel Coaster
Best Steel Coaster Stats
Most Inversions on a Coaster
Tallest Free-Fall Tower
Tallest Water Ride
Most Coasters in a Park

I don't know yet how to distribute points for any of these. The poll categories should be worth differing amounts with maybe bonus points awarded to the park that scores the most points total for that poll (maybe). For the records I'm thinking a certain amount of points for the first month and then a different amount for any subsequent months which that ride/park holds the record. Anyway, that's what I've been thinking.

---EDIT---

Another idea I had is that maybe in addition to scoring points for polls, you could list the categories you won that year and gain some kind of overall park status that way. For example:

SIX FLAGS 2003
Best New Steel Coaster
Best Custom Flatride
Best Layout
Best Variety of Food/Shopping
Most Coasters in a Park (4)
Most Inversions on a Coaster (7)

SIX FLAGS 2004
Best New Waterride
Best Waterride
Best Layout
Most Coasters in a Park (5)
Most Inversions on a Coaster (7)

And at the end of the contest that could some how add up to who the winner is.

---EDIT---

Here's one way to handle the differences between the park chains that wouldn't restrict anybody. There could be one simple guideline for each park chain. If you fulfill that guideline you get some amount of bonus points. If you don't fulfill it, than there's no penalty. It's just there for those that want to. Now I can see how people might not like this idea because it does favor realism but there has to be a way to allow for fully creative parkmaking and still give each park chain a bit of it's own identity. Being stuck with a traditional park chain when you want to build mega coasters wouldn't be very fun I know so I'm trying to find a way around that.

Hell, if I knew it would get these new rules, I would've signed up. The only reason I didn't was becuase I hardly ever play rct1 anymore, but this would make me dust off the cd.

Everyone always seems to get all squirmish when people want to go realistic with the game.

I personally love most of the ideas that Coaster Ed has for this. I have to agree with his #2 in his last post. More power to you, and hopefully, some of the people who are Bitchin leave their spots so I can get in. It's like some people are scared to step away from the mega themed parks. Get out of your comfort zone sometime.

Also, TPM, I just re-read your little rant about it. These are challenging limitations. Not game limitations. It's challenging to work your way around rules to make the best park. It's almost like your too lazy to want to follow rules. If that's so, then, again, I point to Ed's post. That's what Spotlight is for. Competitions each have their own challenge. Spotlight is to make the best Fantasy park you can. Why can't we have a competition for realism? Just becuase there isn't 5 different themed areas with huge, unrealistic coasters and theming that would cost billions doesn't mean it's "limiting" the game. It's creating a new challenge. So you don't want to do it...ok, but don't try to speak for everyone. If your having such a damn problem with it going more realistic, just start your own theming free-for-all. Oh wait....that's pretty much the spotlight.

*Gasp*

Game Diversity? How dare someone else want to do something different than you! Why don't you go lock them in some sort of "It's a small world" Hell because they don't want to have themes? Let the game be played in other ways. You don't want to do it that way? Ok, bow out then. No one is going to go "He doesn't like realistic parkmaking so he bowed out of the competition, he's stupid". But when you make a scene about how the competition is going to go down the drain due to rules, people will.

Well this has been inactive for a long long time. So much for having lots of time to plan. It's time to start making decisions. I'm going to keep working on rules ideas and when I think I've got something that works I'll post it and see what people think.