The Grand Tour '23 / The Grand Tour '23 - Round 2 Voting

What a score, what a park. Hoping to give a full review of the parks soon.

Do I even have to say that even allowing a 20% oversized park to compete is a complete joke and just another instance of the admins just ignoring cheating and toxic behavior?

Applying a severe penalty is not ignoring cheating and toxic behaviour. Their points almost got cut in half. We're applying the same formula for calculating and penalties as we did in the last MM. We took a lot of time to come up with this and we think it is fair. Where would you put the penalty / disqualification boundary? Just complaining (months after a policy was introduced) without offering further thoughts, while implying a pattern of poor admining, is also a bit toxic.

Applying a severe penalty is not ignoring cheating and toxic behaviour.

 

Severe penalty? Again, 20% over needs to be a DQ, simple as that. I don't even know why that should be debated. Imagine if a F1 car arrived 20% underweight for the race. Or a football team started the game with 13 players.

 

Their points almost got cut in half.

 

Yes, because their park didn't get enough votes. If its votes were swapped with the winner, though, they would have won despite the penalty, easy. That's also partly due to the weird decision to subtract a percentage of unique votes given, which is just weird.

 

We're applying the same formula for calculating and penalties as we did in the last MM.

 

Didn't even notice that MM had tolerance. What's the point of that? It's a contest all about sticking to a number of tiles, that is basically the only rule. Why give any leeway?

 

Where would you put the penalty / disqualification boundary?

 

Well, I think one should ask at which point it's an accident, at which point it's a bending of the rules, and at which point it ignores the rules.

 

To continue sticking to your current system:

 

Tolerance of 3% (150 tiles should be enough to cover any minor mistake in calculating tiles)

4%-9%: 25% of total votes cast.

10% and above: DQ

 

while implying a pattern of poor admining, is also a bit toxic.

 

I wonder what happened to the permaban that you personally ensured me and others was permanent? Also ignoring all the H2H rulebreaks that are routinely ignored by referee and admins so that we get a full set of parks?

While I don't think the idea of having an automatic DQ at a certain size limit is completely without reason, I think the community also is self-adjusting enough in their votes to avoid any bizarre scenarios. For example, if someone submitted a 200x200 park for MM filled with spotlight quality stuff, I firmly believe it still would not "steal" a win. In that extreme case, I actually would pretty much expect it to get 0 votes. Then as you go down in size violation, the risk of a submission actually competing might become bigger, but if you were to plot it this out on size violation vs votes garnered, I think only parks that are like 1% over the tile limit actually could (and I would argue, uncontroversially) win. It's just not as big of a deal you are making it.

awww v1 i missed you! cmere

Quick short reviews in random order:

 

Saint-Branler, Swaffelbeke, and Het Schaambos

This was my personal favourite entry. Really love the architecture. Only critiques I have is that I feel like it was a bit cramped in places making it a bit unreadable and secondly the foliage and landscaping did not remind me of Belgium at all.

 

Fred & Jappy in The Diamonds of Antwerp

Super cool concept and executed really well! Loved the coaster and again all the architecture. Reminded me a lot more of Belgium.

 

Expo 77: Belgium Pavilion — The Three Transport Waffles

Beautiful and skillfull execution, however for me the map didn't really have enough content to really hold my attention. I also thought the link with Belgium was not clear enough.

 

The Belgian National Historical Society's Annual Reenactment of the Battle of Waterloo

Cool concept executed well! This one was fun to watch. Remainder of the park was cool too but felt a bit secondary. The black coaster, while very cool, did not really fit in imo.

 

Omloop Het Koksijde

Love the concept and execution was well done. Architecture really reminded me of Belgium but the roads should have been more crappy to really sell it.

 

Cafe Lux

Cool concept and very unique entry. However I agree with Faas and think you could have had more things going on. However I applaud the unique approach and it is definitely a clever way to deal with the Belgium theme.

 

Parc Naturel aux Ardennes

Very cute park. Love the alpine coaster and chairlift combination. The hanging bridge was also cool. The restaurant building under the tower was excellent as well.

 

België - Tous Zusammen

For some reason this entry reminded me of Motherland (I don't mean that in a bad way), probably because of the entry building, the background "music" and the colour choices. The coaster was cool (imagine such a long coaster in real life, would be epic). I thought the remainder of the map was a bit too dark and gray. But not a bad entry at all.

 

Barrage côtier

I don't have LL linked with my openRCT so I couldn't view this one with LL textures which probably hampered my viewing experience. This was a cool entry though. Didn't really remind me of Belgium besides the lock but definitely fun to explore. Also liked the area near the trainstation.

 

 

 

Well done to everyone! Some great entries this round!

Agreed

How is a f1 race or a footy team comparable to this lol

didn't this guy try to rig the vote in an h2h match?

didn't this guy try to rig the vote in an h2h match?

Doesn't mean he can't have a valid argument though. Don't attack the person attack the argument. C'mon people, we're better than this.

i dont believe he is making this argument in good faith. that is all i will say.

I think the community also is self-adjusting enough in their votes to avoid any bizarre scenarios. [...] It's just not as big of a deal you are making it.

 

I would agree with you, if this was a percentage based vote. In a binary vote however? Not sure how many decided against voting for the park because of its illegality.

 

Also, 20% is a big deal.

 

didn't this guy try to rig the vote in an h2h match?

 

Yes, and I still shake my head about what an idiot I was. It was the unhappiest I ever was on NE, but that is not an excuse. I would also add that this was an excellent instance of were the punishment should have been harder, as I was not kicked out of the competition for it.

 

I also don't understand all the eye rolling. I get that Scoop just wants to troll me and Josh wants to avoid any form of conflict in any way possible, but the rules are the rules. Since my F1 and football arguments were not accepted how about board games. Board games have the same stake as a NE competition. Generally even lower since they require less time. Still, when I play boardgames everyone tries to keep it within the rules. We even have a bad conscience if we want to re-do our turn in complicated boardgames. We don't do that because we think our boardgame is somehow high stake.

 

We do it because we all sat down and agreed to play the rules (plus maybe house rules accepted by all). That should be the same here. I don't mind rule-bending mind you, as long as rules aren't blatently broken. So I don't get why so many are just cool with someone coming to the table and unilaterally deciding to play by different rules. If you play Monopoly (which you shouldn't) and another player always took 120$ instead of 100$ whenever crossing start would you just let that slide? I don't think so. But NE has this weird obsession with letting everyone do everything they want, no matter if that means 5 people build on a H2H park, two people build something 20% larger than allowed or illegaly building on parks they are not eligable on.

 

I think any tile count violation in MM should be an immediate DQ. I mean why not? It's not that many tiles and MM has literally only one rule. Now GT has two rules (even though I'm not sure you are technically forced to build the correct country) and some guidelines. The maps are also bigger, which is why I would understand some tolerance for people who genuenly miscalculated and ended up with a bigger map. I can also understand score punishments for parks that "accidentially" ended up with a slightly larger map. Like if, for example, someone discovers late in the building process that they need another 500 tiles or so.

 

Exceeding the map by 20% is not a mistake. It's an intentional violation of the rules. Which should not be allowed, simple as that.

 

Now, I know I'm the asshole. I know my voice counts less because I won't participate (because why would I participate if someone gets released from their permaban just to play in that contest). But I don't think I'm wrong.

Just want to say I noticed the penis shaped building in RWE/faas' entry and i'm super proud of you both

Thanks Josh, but that was not the intention haha.

I think it says a lot about the quality this contest that we came in second to last with our entry.

I also have to say I agree 100% with V1, just to let you guys know he is not alone in this sentiment.

Thanks Josh, but that was not the intention haha.
.

 

 

wow lol. thought you guys were trying to pull a walto on us. well done either way.

 

hoping to share some reviews here this week. been a little hard to find the time with my workload lately, but I'll set some aside for this!

When I play dungeons and dragons and i'm the dungeon master when someone breaks the rules I send them to the dungeon.

What else is there to be said about this round? Every park was such a blast to look through.

Expo 77: Belgium Pavilion - Alex
I hope my instincts are correct and that we will see more in the Expo 77 series for this contest. I love the simple elegance of the compositions here, as well as motifs like the red and yellow umbrellas, white tile walls along the water, and triangular awnings.

Parc Naturel - RWE & Faas

Great landscaping and verticality throughout the park, and making the ugly building a tower is a genius idea. Alpine coaster was executed perfectly, and a good choice for this map; the layout looks really cool against the bare hill, in contrast with the more developed side of the canyon.

België - Fred & Jappy

The huge coaster is awesome, though I wish it had more than one train. I love how it snakes through the three areas, and the areas themselves. My favorite parts of the map were definitely the industrial area and everything around the log flume. I was hard pressed to find an ugly building, but the ugliest one I could find was so tiny. I love this park though, so much to see!

Omloop het Koksijde - ottersalad & MorganFan

Building on this with Otter was so much fun, and I loved his idea of the cyclocross race from the beginning. We basically challenged ourselves to build as many ugly buildings as possible, and I think we succeeded. I'm proud of my contributions to the archy as well as the dive coaster layout and mini golf combo. I'm not discouraged at all by the place we got, because this round was extremely stacked and well-rounded, and I'm happy I got to be a part of it.

BNHSARBW - RobDedede & Terry Inferno

I'm glad to see another submission in this round featuring an event! The battle is extremely well done and very fun to watch; that must have taken quite a bit of effort! Terry really leveled up with his archy along the top. The seaside area is lovely as well, and I love the murals, plus the musik express is so nicely done! Congrats on this entry, it was definitely in my top 3 favorites of this round.

Cafe Lux - Splitvision

This is what happens when you take macro to the next level and I love it. The whole thing is very convincing even past first glance. The praline ride is fun to watch, and the other details and confections across the map held my attention for a little while after the ride ended, particularly the ice creams, cakes, and buildings. I love this kind of entry, and I'd call it a success.

Fred & Jappy - Leon and Xtreme

First of all, how dare you. Second of all, what the fuck? I couldn't believe my eyes when I rotated the map to find a full park to explore. This is without a doubt one of the coolest ideas I've seen executed in the game, and it was pulled off with flair. The Red Star Line ticket and the last panel are something else, and the archy is pristine across the map. Favorite parts are the wedding, rhino house, zoo gates, departing ship, and train station. This is the kind of rct that I would call inspirational.

 

Saint-Branler - Xeccah & Ethan
Another standout of the contest to be sure. Penalty aside, this entry would still have been stiff competition at even half the size, and yet you followed through with one of the most impressive single contest entries I've seen. While I do think the atmosphere would have benefited from a bit more breathing room, the crowded vibe lends itself well to fast-paced contests like this. Highlights were the entire third of the map with the water coaster, the boardwalk/pier, and the blue coaster, and the river rapids that I wish were less hidden. You should be proud of this work.

Barrage côtier - Lurker

What can I say, another LLovely LLurker entry that never fails to bring joy. Despite the limitations, there is a whole lot of life to this map. The train station was a favorite, as was the maze area, lighthouse and seaside, farm, and river, plus the lock system is cool. I can see that you are getting more confident with large buildings and more complex architecture, and I can't wait to see more!