General Chat / Black lives matter.

God bless you, George Floyd. You’re legacy is not what is plastered on the television. This is your legacy:

According to a near and dear friend of Floyd, Christopher Harris:

“He was looking to start over fresh, a new beginning,” Harris said. “He was happy with the change he was making.”

Floyd was a football star in high school who came to be known as a “gentle giant” and was loved dearly by family and friends. He may have had a bit of trouble in the past but he is known to have made an extremely commendable change that demands much more respect than anyone without demons to conquer. He battled furiously and he conquered and he won.

I am white but I fully acknowledge: black lives matter. I pray, not just in word, but in deed. I am PRAYING on my knees for your family and your friends. As for the police that unjustly murdered you and brought unimaginable pain to your family, friends, the nation, and the world, while these criminal police also destroyed their own names, brought immeasurable shame to their own families, and who will forever be known as the lowest scum of the earth by all, I pray they suffer the full extent of the law and I pray they receive the death penalty for their actions.

God bless you George Floyd. Your legacy is not a riot. Your legacy is a great man, full of love, amazing talent, massive heart, bravery, deserving full respect and honor throughout all the earth, and may this be the legacy of you that lives on forever.

Please feel free to discuss as you want on the topic, remaining respectful to each other. Show honor and unity to each other. Stay safe everyone.

I fully support the cause, but I wish 'all lives matter' wasn't a slogan captured by assholes. By saying 'black lives matter' you're legitimizing a hard black-white division. You're either black or white or something else. The distinction matters for academic purposes, among others, for example to track racism in police violence. But beyond that, it is in my opinion one of the institutions that's working against the cause. How can you dissolve the black-white division if you consistently and explicitly highlight the differences?

 

I'm not white, you're not black.

Well said Liam. This is something that bugs me constantly when I'm in the states, or whenever I'm confronted with US societal issues in general. There is such a clear understanding of "they", and no sense of unity. Different "categories" for people are totally normal and very established. The Hispanics, the Asian Americans, the black, the white, the gays, etc etc.

 

People have to put an end to that and let it sink in that nobody is any different. But since people have decided to live these divisions for centuries, I'm not surprised it's hard to repair.

Respectfully, I think what you're both missing is that these differences and categories are imposed on people by society - it is not a case of claiming an identity. You might feel that you are no different to POC, or women, or trans people, or disabled people, but the fact is they are forced to navigate society in a much different way.

It is no good to be 'colourblind' whilst-ever structural racism exists, rather it is important to be attuned to the ways in which privilege and subjugation operates across all different intersections, and on micro and macro scales, and to keep these things in sharp focus. Otherwise the majority of racism(or any other ism) operates as a stealth 'normative' ideology, as it has done for so long.

I had a similar comment written alex, but you've explained it much more eloquently I think. Marginalized groups don't choose to live their divisions. They have no choice in the matter because society has not allowed them to participate in the same way as the majority. Subcultures in the black, hispanic, lgbtq communities and more arose because these groups were forced undergound, to be out of sight or else face attack and ridicule. You're second point is extremely well made and an important one for people to understand. Black Lives Matter is important because the police clearly believes otherwise as demonstrated by the tremendous violence it has inflicted on the black community.

Well said everyone. I believe there’s one race, the human race, coming from the same two people (Adam and Eve) as written in the Holy Bible and as written in the Scriptures as well is that all people, no matter what distinction they’ve been given by minds affected by sin in a fallen world (sins entrance into the world and it’s devastating affects), are all created in the image of God in some ways (excluding sin), and the Gospel as again read of in the Scriptures is for all nations, tribes and tongues. That said, because the distinctions have wrongly been made between people, blacks are being attacked and focused on at the moment, and an unjust murder of one of their people is to say black lives don’t matter, when they matter equally as much as any other human being. It’s like 2 houses, Only one on fire, and the firefighters spraying down both houses because they both matter.

Respectfully, I think what you're both missing is that these differences and categories are imposed on people by society - it is not a case of claiming an identity. You might feel that you are no different to POC, or women, or trans people, or disabled people, but the fact is they are forced to navigate society in a much different way.

 
I'm not denying this, and my original post isn't either. I think the problem is pretty obvious, and the black-white way of thinking helps to identify this problem. My point is that the ultimate solution is a complete paradigm shift because the current paradigm is part of the problem, and therefore 'black' or 'white' are also contributing to the problem. Obviously not in the same way as much as a police officer choking a rando, but I think the point of this whole event and movement is to also shed some light on the subtle and implicit racism that exists. Cue my original post.

being black is profoundly, from the ground up different from being white. I'm sure I speak for alex too when I say that we'd love to live in the kind of world you describe. But the kind of thinking you're suggesting is ACTIVELY HARMFUL to minorities. It's easy when you're the dominant class (in my case straight white male born in first world country) to dream of a world where skin colour doesn't matter - because skin colour has never mattered to me.

 

It's never been a problem that I'm white. The concept of leaving that identity behind isn't a problem for me because I've never had to derive strength from it. Our black brothers and sisters can't tell the same tale. They've had to fight for every inch of their success. Black success is significant. Black children look up to you, dream of being the kind of black person that has success. A successful person who is black, is successful despite their blackness. It's important that they're black. It's never been important that I'm white.

 

That's not to mention how culture is liked to race. Black people have a different culture to white people - a culture which is inextricably linked to their blackness. If we pretend we're all one race - what is usually imagined is that everyone is white. I am not accusing a single person in this thread of this logic AT ALL. I love and respect you guys and lord knows you have created an environment where everyone can be themselves united by 20 yr old games. But when people out there envision a world with no colour, they envision a world where everybody is western and white.

 

Black and white mentality is important not only to racists, but to understanding how our diversity gives us strength. We need to appreciate black people for their blackness and for the strength required to exist while black when everyone is trying to drag you down, to change your name, to discredit your art, to erase your culture, to appropriate your language, to change your hair, to keep you in the ghetto, to keep you out of politics, out of media, out of music, to parade you for branding and politics while using your cousins from where you were stolen to cheaply produce their products or mine their resources.

 

So please, please, please, please. I understand the virtue in what you are saying, I truly do. Our differences are IMPORTANT. They separate us CULTURALLY, POLITICALLY, SOCIALLY, ECONOMICALLY, MEDICALLY, and in a NUMBER OF OTHER LIFE CHANGING WAYS. 

 

DO NOT SUGGEST THAT WE ABANDON "BLACK AND WHITE" MENTALITY. IT WILL ONLY HARM BLACK PEOPLE.

 

This is because blackness exists in opposition, in defiance of whiteness. This is the same as how every minority exists in defiance of the majority. If we ask people to stop talking about the minority, we default to the majority. If we ask people to stop talking about blackness, we default to whiteness.

 

You guys are good people and it wasn't your intent, but it is the unwanted consequence of your desire. And we must appreciate that nuance.

 

Colourblindness has often been executed the same way that your homophobic uncle thinks. "I don't mind the f****ts existing, as long as they act straight around me and f****t around elsewhere." Similarly, the racist uncle says "I don't mind n****rs as long as they act white around me and n***** around elsewhere."

 

We must appreciate the individual for their heritage, and everything that makes them different, and therefore valuable to enrich our society and keeping their cultural flame from being extinguished.

 

Nobody wants this to be white v black. Sadly, it is white v black. And we have to fight on the side of progress, equality, and our fellow humans. Whether we will it or no, the battle has arrived. I hope we can all avail ourselves in the conflicts to come. Wear your masks, wear your eye protection, bring water to drown the teargas. White supremacy must be destroyed. Godspeed.

 

Love you all.

 

EDIT: expanded argument

Good post SSSammy. For the record, and I hope it applies in some way, though I’m sure many may think I’m a simple bible-thumber, and that’s ok, I also understand perhaps the majority of the world believes it’s mostly legends and whatnot, but I believe Adam and Eve were dark-skinned, (as I’ve read there is evidence), and as history continued, people spread out to other regions and various cultures formed. Each should certainly be respected. Though I also believe it may be beneficial, that thinking of us as originating from the same point, (also for the other reasons I mentioned in my most recent post) for seeing race and culture as diverse and each kind celebrated, however sharing a common unity. Might be food for though, but note I’m not attempting to turn the thread into a theological discussion. Just giving my 2 cents. Carry on.

Your sex, the color of your skin, your religious beliefs, the shape of your eyes, your sexual preferences and whatever I forgot,  is who you are. 

But it should never be the reason why you are treated one way or the other.

Maybe one day humanity will catch up. Until then: Stay safe.

SSSammy, I love you. 

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fuck 12 fuck 12 fuck 12

Very well said, SSSammy. "Black Lives Matter" does not imply all lives do not matter. Of course all lives matter--that does not need to be stated, and it is a device people use to change the narrative and deflect from the real issues. Black Lives Matter is about recognizing the struggle at hand with systemic racism in pretty much every aspect of society (in the US or otherwise). Black Lives Matter is the difference between being anti-racist and non-racist. It is about lifting up the voices of the marginalized, the unheard. It is about rejecting the cultural melting pot and loving the cultural kaleidoscope.

 

<3 everyone and glad the discussion exists at NE.

America is the problem. That's what it really comes down to.