H2H8 / H2H8 Round 4 Match 2 - Icons vs. UltraRealists

My last public statement to this and then I will focus what this contest is about and I hope others can too and we get some more reviews on these great parks because they deserve them.

Rereading everything, I of course know who tried to manipulate now and I feel deeply sorry for my team members doing it. I wanna thank Liampie for sorting that out. I can‘t say that I am completely innocent myself, we lose or win together as a team, and I probably should have stopped things, when they happened. But I didn’t, so that’s probably what to blame me for, but please also do not point fingers at specific persons know when you don’t know what happened, i’m still not overseeing the whole situation myself so it makes it really difficult to comment, but I still wanted to leave this last statement of mine here. If you have any further questions, be sure to PM me and I will try to answer them.

In the end we will move on and try to present you guys a nice r5 park, cya till then

 

 

I don't know who said this and where, but please leave me out of it and just vote for the better park. I don't want your unconditional support

 

Yea just to be clear this was not an accusation to you Liam, I know that you did not know about this. It was just an example to show that there are people who just vote for their friends.

I guess here is my last statement on all of this before I take my long break from this community. I'll still release parks when I'm done but there will be nothing else coming from me.

 

I obviously recognize that what I did was wrong. Of course it was. Before this contest I was the #1 supporter of following the rules and enforcing them. But alas, it became pretty clear to me that there is a lot of shady stuff going on, both within my team and in the rest of the contest. More importantly though, I hate H2H. I remember people telling me to enter H2H because it will be "fun". I had no fun. I was trapped between wanting to build more but feeling to bad at the game to justify me building stuff over the more talented builders, especially since none of our parks were in any trouble of not being finished. My biggest creative contribution in 4 rounds of H2H was to design a bunch of towers. Great, I had a greater feeling of accomplishment after finishing 30% scoring parks. Then of course there is the additional layer of being mocked for being on the worst team and just building silver level parks. I now you are going to say that all of that was done by a sociopathic asshole, but it still stung and it still made me mad that I didn't do enough. I felt like every park that ended up being by a wide margin was also losing because of me, even if I just built 1 or 4 percent. People say I am supposed to just be proud of a park and move on. I have no idea how Coasterbill did it, because I felt like shit every time our team lost no matter how much I liked the park before it was released. So yeah, maybe I was right all along and H2H is not for me.

 

Back to the manipulation: I don't deny what I've done, but as already stated, I was fed up enough with the contest to risk it. If we got through with it great, I will at least be able to have something to keep me in a somewhat positive mood. If I get caught, what is supposed to happen to me? Admins are known for never really doing anything and even though Liam seems mad as hell everyone who did shady stuff in this round got a flick on the wrist and that's it. What I do want to clarify is that Liam is really off the mark with his "huge margin" comment, since we started this bullshit when the standing was 23-29, so claiming that it started when we had 15 votes is just insane. It was a close match (no matter how much the self-appointed gods of RCT criticism like to act like it wasn't) and that's that. At the end of the day, H2H was easily the worst thing I had ever the displeasure of participating in in an online community so I'm really, really happy that this is behind me and I can begin doing stuff that is actually meaningful and won't let me feel like a worthless shit who can't come through for his team.

@recurious

There is a huge difference in tagging active, participating members and players in H2H to vote on the current matchup with zero additional goading, as opposed to posting the match to unknown strangers to the community and players who havent logged on in years, with goading to vote for you because they are your friend. Dont even try to compare the two, thats being extremely dishonest and is a shit attempt to justify the attempted cheating that went down.

I also want to point out that V1 is 100% correct and that the Icons literally got away with attempted cheating without a punishment. So leaking got replacements and Strangelove docked a full 25% score, and got shogo booted (rightfully so tbh...), but a warning was all that was given for attempted vote manipulation? Bullshit. Im sure Trav and the admins had to make a hard decision here, but this to me, is a much bigger deal than people are making it out to be and there was very little justice served. Another shitty cherry on top of a shitty H2H season.

Shitty H2H season?! Either you are really salty or totally ignorant of all the quality work that has been put out. I think I rate this H2H top of the board till now, with no unfinished parks and like I said all top quality parks.

 

Such a shame some jerks are putting a big stain on this great H2H, and are now trying to justify their asshole actions.

@recurious

There is a huge difference in tagging active, participating members and players in H2H to vote on the current matchup with zero additional goading, as opposed to posting the match to unknown strangers to the community and players who haven’t logged on in years, with goading to vote for you because they are your friend. Don’t even try to compare the two, that’s being extremely dishonest and is a shit attempt to justify the attempted cheating that went down.

I also want to say that the Icons literally got away with attempted cheating without a punishment. So leaking got replacements and Strangelove docked a full 25% score, and got shogo booted (rightfully so tbh...), but a “warning” was all that was given for attempted vote manipulation? Bullshit.

 

According to the rules, anyone with an NE account old enough was allowed to vote. Nowhere in the rules does it say "you need to be this active to vote". I don't see the difference. Furthermore, most of the votes that we got in the end where from still active members....

 

On the second point about the "strangers" voting, if these "strangers" have accounts and follow NE I don't see why they shouldn't be allowed to vote. In previous editions of H2H I was also a lurker and I still voted on a lot of match ups and I think I had every right to do so, it is not like only the elite is allowed to vote, anyone can vote as long as they are on this site, no matter how active they are or whatever skill level they have. If you don't like that, change the rules.

 

Also don't act like you did not expect the people that you tagged to not tip the balance, its ridiculous. You may not have explicitly said vote for us, but it was exactly what you thought, if you say anything otherwise the only person you are fooling is yourself.

 

For your final statement, don't act like that doesn't have a double agenda. You just want us to get punished so you guys have a higher chance of reaching the semi-finals.

 

Also, I could make the same argument for your team. Shogo got feedback from like half of NE for his parks, why are any of his parks even accepted into the contest? Sure shogo got kicked but he wasn't allowed to build on any park anymore anyways, basically you guys got away with everything as well, so please stop bullshitting. If you are going to accuse teams of doing shady stuff look at your own team first.

Shitty H2H season?! Either you are really salty or totally ignorant of all the quality work that has been put out. I think I rate this H2H top of the board till now, with no unfinished parks and like I said all top quality parks.

 

Such a shame some jerks are putting a big stain on this great H2H, and are now trying to justify their asshole actions.

 

I totally agree. Maybe the people who are having issues with this H2H need to examine their own actions and own attitude regarding the contest. 

"All Top Quality Parks"

Idk, I'm not sure I'd agree with that. Personally this H2H to me is maybe the weakest on average since H2H5. Sure we have no unfinished parks, to me 1-2 of those doesn't really bring down the average quality of a season enough for it to fall below this one. The top parks of this season to me at best are on H2H7 level and fall below H2H4, 5 and 6 levels. The midpack is probably better than 5 which is why I think it slides about that season.

Perhaps it's me also considering the quality of parks leading up to the competition, which has been super high the last two years. Relative to that I don't think this competition has had the jump it's had in the past.

Isn't frustration part of the competition? Sure, the shady and illegal stuff that's been happening is totally uncalled for and adds a lot of shit no one should have to put up with (although stuff like this probably happens every H2H, it just goes unnoticed due to the lack of Discord), but if anger and salt in general makes competition horrible, I dread to think of how RCT would fare as a real e-sport.

According to the rules, anyone with an NE account old enough was allowed to vote. Nowhere in the rules does it say "you need to be this active to vote". I don't see the difference. Furthermore, most of the votes that we got in the end where from still active members....
 
On the second point about the "strangers" voting, if these "strangers" have accounts and follow NE I don't see why they shouldn't be allowed to vote. In previous editions of H2H I was also a lurker and I still voted on a lot of match ups and I think I had every right to do so, it is not like only the elite is allowed to vote, anyone can vote as long as they are on this site, no matter how active they are or whatever skill level they have. If you don't like that, change the rules.
 
Also don't act like you did not expect the people that you tagged to not tip the balance, its ridiculous. You may not have explicitly said vote for us, but it was exactly what you thought, if you say anything otherwise the only person you are fooling is yourself.
 
For your final statement, don't act like that doesn't have a double agenda. You just want us to get punished so you guys have a higher chance of reaching the semi-finals.
 
Also, I could make the same argument for your team. Shogo got feedback from like half of NE for his parks, why are any of his parks even accepted into the contest? Sure shogo got kicked but he wasn't allowed to build on any park anymore anyways, basically you guys got away with everything as well, so please stop bullshitting. If you are going to accuse teams of doing shady stuff look at your own team first.

You’re trying to justify voter manipulation by saying “oh well but technically it’s not stated in the rules sooooo....”

Reminding people who are actively participating in the contest to vote, even if we are hoping they would tip the scales in our favor, is NOT the same scenario at all. For example, when Roomie was reminded that he hasn’t voted on a close matchup yet, he ended up voting against us. That’s the risk you take when you get people who aren’t your close friends and are actively participating in the contest to vote. It’s no different than a pinned post by the admins saying “remember to vote”.

Whereas your team got multiple votes in a row within the span of an hour right before the deadline due to your vote manipulation. These are people who would NOT have logged on or looked at the parks in any way shape or form, and that only did so because your team goaded them, sometimes with a friendly reminder that you, as their friend, is on the Icons... *wink*.

There’s a reason the admins decided to remove them as they were deemed fraudulent, and so your attempts to equate the two scenarios is simply you trying to justify the shit your team pulled. You guys fucked up and tried to get non-community members and close friends to vote for your park. STOP TRYING TO JUSTIFY IT. It’s pathetic.

As for the leaking - Shogo was banned. Did you miss the memo?

PS Icons getting punished actually HURTS us. We want you to win in R5 in order for us to advance to finals, because a replacements win will fuck us over in vote percentage. Nice try though, but bullshit doesn’t work on me. Think before you type.

Recurious, please stop it. We both know that someone like BigB and Belgiancoasterfreak just voted for us without looking at both parks. No reason to defend our actions, better to come clean with ourselves and try to redeem ourselves with a good R5 park and maybe a semis. Understand that everyone else is a bit mad at us, and justified. Please stop throwing oil at the fire. 

 

I am one to blame. I'd like to apologise against my own team members, the UR and everyone else into H2H. I don't want to seek any excuses, what we did was simply wrong. Of course there are multiple reasons how we ended up in that situation but I feel that's only appropriate to tell after H2H is done. Yet if any of the NE members wants some more explanation, you may always PM me. If people feel me or my team isn't punished hard enough, I'm willing to take the blame and drop out. 

 

 

 

 

Ultrarealists

I've always wanted to go to Barcelona but for some reasons still haven't been yet. Park Güell and Gaudi defined that city, it's an interesting place to chose for a H2H park. I like the idea behind it. It's is very well composed, a lot of interaction going on and interesting height levels. Marks of a good builder.

 

The coasters were good, especially the Intamin multilaunch stood out. Though not a fan of its colors. Something is putting me off in this park, I guess mainly the textures. Those Kryptonian rocks for example are awful...

 

I think this might be the best UR park when it comes to technical level. When it comes to atmosphere, I'd place this just below EVIL. While EVIL may be not the best technical executed park, it hold my attention longer. 80%

You’re trying to justify voter manipulation by saying “oh well but technically it’s not stated in the rules sooooo....”

Reminding people who are actively participating in the contest to vote, even if we are hoping they would tip the scales in our favor, is NOT the same scenario at all. For example, when Roomie was reminded that he hasn’t voted on a close matchup yet, he ended up voting against us. That’s the risk you take when you get people who aren’t your close friends and are actively participating in the contest to vote. It’s no different than a pinned post by the admins saying “remember to vote”.

Whereas your team got multiple votes in a row within the span of an hour right before the deadline due to your vote manipulation. These are people who would NOT have logged on or looked at the parks in any way shape or form, and that only did so because your team goaded them, sometimes with a friendly reminder that you, as their friend, is on the Icons... *wink*.

There’s a reason the admins decided to remove them as they were deemed fraudulent, and so your attempts to equate the two scenarios is simply you trying to justify the shit your team pulled. You guys fucked up and tried to get non-community members and close friends to vote for your park. STOP TRYING TO JUSTIFY IT. It’s pathetic.

 

Also @FredD

 

I think you are totally misunderstanding me. The votes that where deemed fraudulent where deemed fraudulent because of goading, I'm not justifying those and as I said in my first post, if the ref thinks those were unfair he had every right to remove them. What I am defending is the votes which we got by reminding people to look at the match up, without goading. These votes were not deemed fraudulent by the referee, and with good reason. They were legit votes, even if these members would maybe not have looked at or voted in the match up otherwise. They had every right to vote, so why would you not remind them of that?

 

We literally had one person saying to one of our members that he liked our park more but that he did not vote yet. What were we supposed to say? Nah dude fuck it, don't vote? Of course we are going to say then vote for us, who wouldn't?

 

 

 

 

As for the leaking - Shogo was banned. Did you miss the memo?

 

Yea sucks for shogo, but for the ultrarealists it makes no difference, your team still profited from his cheating.
 

 

PS Icons getting punished actually HURTS us. We want you to win in R5 in order for us to advance to finals, because a replacements win will fuck us over in vote percentage. Nice try though, but bullshit doesn’t work on me. Think before you type.

 

Not if the icons get punished in this round, then its beneficial for you guys because our vote percentage goes down. Why the fuck would we get punished in round 5?, that round has nothing to do with this round.... That makes no sense. Maybe you should take your own advice.

Also @FredD
 
I think you are totally misunderstanding me. The votes that where deemed fraudulent where deemed fraudulent because of goading, I'm not justifying those and as I said in my first post, if the ref thinks those were unfair he had every right to remove them. What I am defending is the votes which we got by reminding people to look at the match up, without goading. These votes were not deemed fraudulent by the referee, and with good reason. They were legit votes, even if these members would maybe not have looked at or voted in the match up otherwise. They had every right to vote, so why would you not remind them of that?
 
We literally had one person saying to one of our members that he liked our park more but that he did not vote yet. What were we supposed to say? Nah dude fuck it, don't vote? Of course we are going to say then vote for us, who wouldn't?
 
 
 
 

 
Yea sucks for shogo, but for the ultrarealists it makes no difference, your team still profited from his cheating.
 
 

 
Not if the icons get punished in this round, then its beneficial for you guys because our vote percentage goes down. Why the fuck would we get punished in round 5?, that round has nothing to do with this round.... That makes no sense. Maybe you should take your own advice.

And explain to me what was the punishment for the Icons for that again? I must’ve missed it.

If you’re gonna blame shogo for doing something secretively that the rest of us had zero clue about, and then not also blame those who he leaked things to, then you’re being selective. If you’re trying to claim that we benefited from feedback from other teams through leaking, then those other teams were complicit by giving feedback instead of reporting him, including some of your teammates, so don’t try to go there.

Oh how cute you’re thinking of a vote deduction! I’m thinking of a complete ban of those who tried to cheat their way through the competition, which doesn’t impact this round but will for round 5. If leaking gets a vote deduction and is not nearly as serious as cheating, then a ban is only appropriate in my book.

Recurious, please stop it. 

 

Wow G-Force, really? If you really think that I have a wrong perception of you..

Can we se more reviews and less fighting?

Hey scoop, how about a park planning and history post to direct the discussion? I'd be really interested to see who did what and the overall story of the park!

Same for Guell, although some stuff got mentioned in Discord last night. FK was doing a Winkelheim-type park and this replaced it or something?

I will when I get off work today. I'm sure bright side will love to say his thoughts on the park as well.

Yeah i disagree with G Force on the quality of parks this season. I really enjoy this seasons parks far more than previous seasons for the most part. Even the lowest parks this time are still fantastic I think.

Congrats UR. Sorry about all the drama Icons.

I’m immensely proud of what Scoop and Brightside accomplished with this park. They both stepped up to the plate and improved exponentially throughout the building process and ended up with a park that I feel has a ton of heart and character, even if it’s not the most original idea in the world. There’s a lot of moments of subtle beauty on the map, and I absolutely appreciated a park that was more straightforward and pleasant, with some homey atmosphere and great coasters.

Shogo et al, you guys did a fantastic job on Güell as wüell. I think you’ve definitely come the closest to the beautiful organic complexity of Gaudi’s work, and while I found the park a bit messy and overtextured for my taste in moments, it’s an absolutely commendable interpretation of Gaudi’s work. I appreciate that this doesn’t feel as overthought as some of your other work, and I’m glad to see you guys take your win here.