General Chat / If you have a problem with NE, let's talk about it.

In recent years more and more have certain people been pushing this Europe vs. USA narrative which may makes sense to some, and none to others. I belong in the latter category. I'm not talking about RCT, because apparantly it's the amount of European members in the community that is a problem to some.

 

Okay, fine, you're not happy with the state of the community and/or the way it's being run. But if you're not talking, nothing is changing. And if you talk straight someone may actually listen. But don't run off to secret chat groups with no more information than "I don't like it here anymore and I know that other people don't like it anymore either. Why? It's too eurocentric! I can't tell you anything more but we just don't like it anymore" Thank you, very helpful. Why would those who buy the Europe vs. USA divide thing think it will help to withdraw more and more American members? What the fuck does that solve?

 

Can we actually talk about this?. If you don't communicate you have no one to blame but yourself. Speak your mind.

 

- Liam

Don't take a largely personal vendetta I have with people that, yes, are typically european and apply it to others. I do not speak for anyone else. From my perspective, I see the NE discord, and the community itself polarize and the other side is just a reaction to that. I will post more later.

I have no problem.

Don't take a largely personal vendetta I have with people that, yes, are typically european and apply it to others. I do not speak for anyone else. From my perspective, I see the NE discord, and the community itself polarize and the other side is just a reaction to that. I will post more later.

 

 

I had to pop in and say this, because you saying "You don't speak for anyone else" is a flat out lie. Quoting directly from this afternoon's Discord chat:

"I rarely talk on this discord because personally i cant fucking stand half of you, and there's probably 15-20 others that feel the exact same way." 

If that's not talking for other people, nothing is.

I've no idea what's going on because from briefly scrolling the discord its all sniping and innuendo. So like Liam says, if there are problems you should be upfront and clear.

Liam, I have no problem with the amount of Europeans in the community. Honestly, I really enjoy hearing from people in other countries and cultures, and it's part of what keeps me coming back tbh. This is whether it's about RCT or not, doesn't matter to me. I enjoy hearing from all of you, and I don't give a shit where you're from, what color you are, who you love, or what your mental situation is. 

 

That being said, I know I've only been active in this community for a few months now, but even in that short amount of time, I've felt this tension between some US members and some European members. It has certainly permeated the Discord, even if it has not been felt here on the website so much. As I mentioned above, it seems that the Discord is largely a European chat, because it becomes very inactive during the non-waking hours in Europe. Apparently, this is because many of the US members go to their own Discord (which I am NOT a part of, apparently I am not a parkmaker, or elite enough for that community) during the "primetime evening hours." If you guys want to have your own Discord, fine, I don't give a shit. But as Liam said, don't go all "holier-than-thou" and state that there are "all these problems" without giving us an inkling of what they actually fucking are. In any case, I think that these current tensions are all coming from problems with the Discord, which I will attempt to describe as I see them. 

Here's my opinion of what the current problems with the Discord are, and maybe some of those 15-20 people shogo mentioned could confirm or deny these. I personally am not going to just give up and go hide, without talking about the problems and discussing possible solutions.

 

1) Brand-spanking-new members coming on to the Discord and posting screens that take a grand total of 2 seconds of work, and thinking its "da shit", when its literal actual shit. Now, I know I am a "new member" by most standards, but its become more and more invasive to the discord chat, and more disruptive to myself as an actual new member, trying to get feedback and become a better player. Now, these members have had both direct responses to their screens (e.g. that's terrible, spend more time on it), and indirect responses (e.g. ignoring, or saying things like "great foliage" when there's not a tree on the screen). Normally, people get the hint and move on or become better, but this has not been the case. I realize the admins are trying to be more welcoming, but when people repeatedly don't take the hint and take action to improve themselves, they should be booted until they prove themselves by posting parks/screens on the actual website. I do not think that the link to the NE discord should be public. Either admins should invite members they think would bring positivity and structure (much like I was invited by G Force before I even knew that discord was a thing, thanks dude!), or there should be some kind of post/screen/park count before a member is invited (i.e. 50 posts on NE, 3 screens of above XX% quality, or 1 park thats accepted for release). Not sure which of these I prefer at this point, but I think both should be discussed.

 

2) People using the discord as their personal therapist. Now, I have to premise this with me possibly being part of the problem on this one. I'm a stable person, I've got nothing to complain about irl, but I can't help but try to help people in need. If people want to talk about their life story and their irl problems/struggles with mental issues, I'm going to respond and try to help in the best way I can. However, lately, it seems as though everyone is bitching about every problem and everything on the Discord, and then they're using their mental problem/issue as an excuse for their stupid behavior on the Discord. I need to stop enabling them by listening and trying to help (mostly just if its a repeated thing that's continuing to happen), and they need to either 1) get professional help, 2) take it to DMs or a friend directly, or 3) just stop acting like a fucking child (if that applies). I honestly don't see any issues with admins booting people who continue to bring these issues up day after day after day and expect to get a nice prop-up from us all, but I'm sure I'm going to get called out for being insensitive on that one. Basically, people need to exercise restraint, and know what's appropriate or not to discuss.

 

3) The Discord is becoming a replacement for the website and forums. This ones a bit of a grey area, but I do feel as though it should be discussed. There are many people now, who it seems, either only give feedback on the discord, or only post screens on the discord, or are super active on the discord and not the NE site/forums. Don't get me wrong, I love the Discord. Getting to know all of you on a more personal level has been super fun, and getting instant feedback on my work has definitely made me a better RCT player. However, I do not like that people don't extend their work to the website as much. Using myself as an example, I posted a screen on the discord the other day of my current project, and people gave me some feedback. I then applied that feedback, and posted the screen to NE. It's pretty easy to balance both platforms into your workflow, and I don't know why people don't do it this way. As far as fixing this problem, its up to all of us as members of this community to keep visiting the website and supplying feedback, and to keep in mind that the Discord should just be an appendage of NE, not the other way around.

 

Sorry for the long drawn out post, but I really don't like that we're having these issues, and I really want to see them resolved. I hope that others come on and add to the discussion, and we can resolve this all and become a better community as a result.

 

TLDR; 1) You guys are all awesome, regardless of where you come from. 2) this tension we've seen recently may be a result of the discord. 3) the discord may be made better by a) keeping it more private and limited to more active NE members b) not using it as a personal therapist, and c) keeping in mind that its an appendage of NE, not a replacement for NE.

My biggest problem with NE is that I don't have the time to be here enough any more.

^Same.

 

I'm glad this site is still alive.

 

Stop fighting with eachother and build roller coaster stuff

I'm glad you miss me In:Cities!

I don't know either of you (I know of you both though lol), but I wish you both the time to come back and be with us again! 

No problems here.

No real problems for me. Also the secret discord chat for me and many others is just a place to vc when were plsying games like Fortnite, rocket league etc. Really we just play games with others who are on at the time and maybe share screens every once and a blue moon. Honestly there is very little talking behind the backs, and it doesnt exist for the reason of US members venting out about European members. Really its just a old aim chat that has added members that we play games with. Just my perspective of the issue.

The reason why the eu v na is a thing because:

a) All of the current active adminship that has tangible power and pull (which sadly does end up excluding g force) is European. Matt goes along whatever you say, gee doesn't do much of anything sans hosting. Liam and Louis now not only administrate NE, but also have social influence within the community so strong that no one ever criticizes them. From what I know awards for example are being highly underrepresented by American influence.
b) The discord has created cliques within the community (including the one i am in). these in it of itself, because they exist on the NE discord polarizes the entire community.
c) This has led to people having social status in the discord that they honestly do not deserve (either based on their rct skill or otherwise), and now it's starting to extend to site privileges. I've heard that, for example, that Louis and Liam are seriously considering RWE on their shortlist of potential H2H8 captains. Nothing against him, but there's about a dozen people at least that I think are more worthy of it.
d) You're not able to freely bring up any criticism of the site, how its ran, or any aspect of NE on the discord without being silenced by everyone who disagrees with you. It's to the point that a rather inactive admin who didn't do anything RCT related in 2017 is so self-important that he's allowed to postpone the awards because he is getting married, and then says "You can have an awards ceremony without me" like he is god's gift to us.
e) Certain divisive members on the discord are slowly but surely being allowed and accepted socially without their own opinions or mindset changing, because their friends in their respective cliques have so much influence on the discord channel.


These 5 reasons have led to division in the community as a whole and has led to a good portion of the American community to cling on to an already existing discord server/aim chat that was made for the h2h7 hurricanes team. At one point, even before discord, Louis literally told me that the fact that an aim chat outside of NE existed is "killing the site"... The lack of actual representation and influence on NE has led a certain members to occasionally harbor negative opinions about the group of European members on the discord. I know that this isn't everyone, or all Europeans; no group on NE is a monolith. Playing dumb to the fact that cliques do exist because of the discord server and that now there's tension between them is harmful to the community as a whole. I along with others have now used our server as a way to say things about NE and its members that we would be shunned for saying otherwise.

"Apparently, this is because many of the US members go to their own Discord (which I am NOT a part of, apparently I am not a parkmaker, or elite enough for that community) during the 'primetime evening hours.'"

 

I've actually considered inviting you at one point... We did just recently removed members (mainly Liam/Fisch/Alex) so I doubt we want anyone else at this time. That chat has nothing to do with RCT skill, by the way.

Good to know shogo, thanks for clarifying. CC9 also mentioned to me later that it was originally a Hurricanes chat, and I don’t have a problem with it existing or with me not being a part of it/there being some selectivity to it. I assumed it was having to do with skill level just because that would make sense to me if you guys are having serious rct discussion. I have no problems with cliques in NE, as long as the cliques don’t become closed off from the rest of the site as a whole, because that would be bad for NE.

Your post above is interesting; because many of us don’t hear about some of these inner workings that you’re mentioning.

 I've heard that, for example, that Louis and Liam are seriously considering RWE on their shortlist of potential H2H8 captains. 

 

If there's any conversation about potential H2H captains, it's not to create a shortlist. in H2H7, we had no idea who would sign up or be available to captain, and nothing was known or planned beforehand except that Liam and I would be captaining teams.

CP6 recently returned and there's been a wonderful breath of fresh air in the Discord with some really nice, positive conversation. I'm going to quote one thing that I said in Discord relevant to the matter, and then I'm going to step back and take my own advice.

 

"It should be very easy for something like this to be put aside and done with without such dramatic responses and controversy. Just enjoy each others’ company and have a little fun doing something we all love. It takes too much time and energy to be frustrated about such things that are so insignificant in the grand scheme of things."

I doubt that anything would be done if it wasn't done this way though. I doubt anything will change now either.

If there is a bias in the community or adminship it is exactly because the two sides don't equally represent or participate themselves. You can't expect things to be equal when 75% of the sites activity is from Europeans and of that probably 40% of it is Dutch Europeans.

If you want the problem (if there is one) to be fixed both sides need to be equally active. Not this obviously isn't something one person can fix, but one can certainly help "the issue" by being more active themselves.

This is the first time I'm hearing of an 'American discord' and I'm sure it's the same for some of the other Europeans. 

 

As multiple people have already pointed out, it definitely seems like the discord dies out a little when the Europeans go to bed, but surely if that's because you're all talking in another discord, that's where the problem is? 

 

Also; this is a website centered around a 20 year old game. Why does 'power' and 'influence' over the site become a thing? Who cares about who runs the site and why? For the first 10 years of the site it was always run by 1 or 2 guys who were always American, did that have any effect on Europeans? Absolutely not. 

 

You're saying no one criticises Liam and Louis, but why would anyone criticise them if there's nothing to criticise...? Genuine question to you, what do you have to actually criticise them on?

 

What ever happened to us all just building rollercoasters and having fun chats