News / The List

Maybe would've switched Dreamport and Zippos purely because I enjoy Dreamport more.

 

 

I'm a little surprised with the turnout myself but if that's what people voted then that's what it is. This run of "The List" is more of a fun nostalgic little trip, and I don't think has quite the same heavy meaning the original List had, when good fullsize parks weren't so plenty, and the list was posted as a major site section that was impossible to miss, and kind of a set-in-stone park ranking everyone studied. So I think it's perfectly reasonable to hold your own list of greatest parks "close to your heart", and not get too worked up about a particular placement here. I appreciate the passion though.

 

Regarding RoB, is it really that influential? To my eyes, when released in 2003 it was on a level no one could even think of coming near to. It uses a very old style of RCT1 stemming from pre-NE days, fused and translated to RCT2 in a quite unbelievable way. It maintained most of the old qualities of placing quaint naturalistic aesthetics very highly, and did so by using some of the new possibilities RCT2 had to offer. It was extremely beautiful, and to me personally is still beautiful. However I don't find many people were able to emulate that, and of the very few who tried, only slob and Steve could show us significant enough releases. So I see SA in a similar light as Natelox: totally legendary and beloved, however impossible to imitate. But if you know other ways in which RoB has influenced you as a player that I'm not seeing, that would be interesting to read.

 

Also the term "NE-Style" means something entirely different to me, namely tropical themes with 2x2ism in LL, as pushed to popularity by Natelox, Fatha and x-sector back in the early 2000s. But I guess the term has been re-used by later NE generations and this is just lost in translation.

Pretty much every park that has organic themed lands and large coasters is in the RoB vein of inspiration. Ancient Worlds, SoA, Veteris are the best examples, but I'd even argue parks like Everland, Antiquita, Terra Fantasia, owe something to RoB too.

 

I think this is incredibly farfetched, if not only for the reason that such parks also exist in real life. Just because RoB was (one of) the first parks to successfully translate this concept into RCT does not mean that all other parks that do something similar are inspired by RoB.

 

 

 

It's not just about the micro, or the semi-ncso vanilla style, RoB is special because of how it approached building a park on the whole. It was the first park to really break from the LL style of filler archy and gave each structure purpose and functionality which is a key to top tier parks today, on top of the incredible composition and planning for the time.

 

I will agree with the incredible composition and planning, but I don't think the micro of RoB is that good, especially compared to the parks released today. And honestly, how could it be? Back then there were far fewer objects to play with. You can't possibly expect a park from back then to stack up to a park from today.

 

Having said that, all these points are irrelevant, because even if all what you are saying is true that means that RoB was incredibly influencial. I am willing to accept that, because lets be honest, it probably was. However that doesn't say anything about how the park holds up aesthetically compared to some parks of today. I personally think that parks like Riverland, BGA, Grona Lund, Starpointe etc. are much more visually pleasing to look at. Mainly because of the object selection and micro detailing which create imo a much more realistic and immersive experience.

 

I don't think RoB is overrated because I think it wasn't influencial. I think RoB is overrated because people still act like RoB is some flawless park which hasn't been surpassed in quality by any modern park even though these modern parks are shaped by nearly two decades of progress in RCT.

My problem with your usual RoB arguments (not just you, other people mention it too when discussing older RCT2 and LL work) is that you seem to equate the level of detail and grain size with quality, whereas I think those are stylistic differences independent from quality. No micro is not the same thing as bad micro. For good micro qualities, I would never refer someone to RoB. That doesn't mean RoB is flawed for that reason. I think in the aspects of parkmaking that apply to RoB, it is still the gold standard.

 

 

 

 

Also the term "NE-Style" means something entirely different to me, namely tropical themes with 2x2ism in LL, as pushed to popularity by Natelox, Fatha and x-sector back in the early 2000s. But I guess the term has been re-used by later NE generations and this is just lost in translation.

 

I'd be interested in seeing you do a small encyclopedia-style write-up on the original idea of NE-style. In my personal experience, the style that I originally saw as NE style were the Isole Calabria and Islands of Enchantment style parks, as well as Watkins Woods and Kumba's Dimensions. A wide range of parkmaking styles, but coming from another community with another parkmaking tradition (largely Paulism - also worthy of a write-up!), all of these parks were very exotic looking and directly associated with New Element. Hence NE-style. I think most people have an experience similar to this, with the definiton of NE-style depending on when they first came in contact with NE and what parks caught their attention. For someone entering the community coming from Reddit, in 2015, Starpointe and Westwinds may be their idea of what is NE-style.

 

No one is wrong, but people mean different things when they say NE-style.

 

In regards to The List.. I'm surprised Kumba and Lenox Mall were that high.. but you guys know more about NE history than me. Maybe would've switched Dreamport and Zippos purely because I enjoy Dreamport more. This list of parks was a huge undertaking and is great for spurring debate and discussion.

 

I'd say that for both Lenox and Kumba it's a combination of innovation and quality. Kumba shattered accolade panel records (back when panelists weren't handing out 90, 95 and 100 votes like candy) and introduced a large collection of new objects that changed the aesthetic of most RCT parks that came after - still visible and notable to this day. Lenox Mall was just next level in terms of unique setting with insane amount of detail and immersive qualities, as well as the technical wizardry it has on display. Watkins Woods was the pioneer. Belmont and Lenox were the first champions.

Great points Liampie. I definitely can see why they were ranked the way they were. They were both before my time here at NE so I didn't see their influence when they came out. The addition of new scenery objects is definitely a big factor I wouldn't have considered. 

My problem with your usual RoB arguments (not just you, other people mention it too when discussing older RCT2 and LL work) is that you seem to equate the level of detail and grain size with quality, whereas I think those are stylistic differences independent from quality. No micro is not the same thing as bad micro. For good micro qualities, I would never refer someone to RoB. That doesn't mean RoB is flawed for that reason. I think in the aspects of parkmaking that apply to RoB, it is still the gold standard.

 

This argument would hold up if there weren't parks that have both good micro and good macro. RoB has good macro but bascially no micro. How does that make it better than parks that have both?

 

Sure no micro is not the same as bad micro. But the fact that we have seen parks that are both good at a macro and micro level make me feel like something is missing in RoB. (Atleast if we are to consider it to be this perfect park like some people seem to believe)

I would disagree it has no micro, if you think that you probably need to take more time looking through it.

As far as macro goes it's probably still on a tier or it's own in my eyes. Some parks recently have come close I guess but overall I still would say it's a top 5 park which for something as old as it is pretty incredible. It's just so far ahead of anything from the era to me it's deserving of any spot in the top 5.