General Chat / 2016 Elections

Democracy won so that's how it'll be.

 

 

The way voting works in the USA is pretty much undemocratic. I don't get it either.  

 

Trump must be the dumbest president ever chosen. We're talking about a guy who wants to build a wall and let Mexico pay for it, said global warming is invented by the Chinese to steal jobs from America, later on he said global warming is welcome because it's too cold in NY,... Sorry my American friends, I think you are all fucked! In positive ways: we Europeans can grab our popcorn, and he did say he wants to get along with other countries so I'm hopeful he won't press any red buttons. 

@shotguns and @gforce. If he can manage to be slow his rhetoric against immigrants and muslims as president then I'll have a lot less issues with him. His speech tonight was a good step to that. But that is a massive part of his platform. If he wants to "drain the swamp" that's great. But it's his rhetoric and cutting out minorities that I just can't agree with.

@Fredd. We have a messed up system. But he won the popular vote and the electoral. That's a mandate. I wished it would go the other way. But he still won fairly

I didn't mean to say he won unfairly, just sayin' the system is undemocratic for a country that boasts itself to be one of the most democratic in the world  

Why do people outside the US care about the US election? I never have been able to understand this.

 

Maybe because of this? But IMO it doesn't really matter who president is, as he doesn't make decisions by himself anyways, too many people/parties/companies behind - at least that's my impression of the position.

 

At least your elections seem to work somehow. Haha

 

"MFG"

At least you guys have a leader you actually elected.

That's debatable, Louis. The two party system being essentially a false dichotomy, the first past the pole thing, voting for other people voting instead of voting directly... There are many factors that make the US political system not quite as democratic as you'd want.

 

edit: Gerrymandering and revoking voting rights by the millions too

I meant in the fact that Theresa May leads our country because David Cameron stood down.

 

But our system is shit too. We vote for an MP that represents our local area. The party with the most of these wins and their leader becomes our leader. The difficulty is that if I find a candidate in my local area best, doesn't mean I'd want that party leader to lead the country.

I think people all over the western hemisphere are losing their interest in politics, and are mad at the establishment. This being the ultimate proof of it, and see politicians like Bart De Wever, Geert Wilders, Le Pen, Farage etc.

 

It's a sad sad world. Where is the love?

Hopefully this election goes down as a turning point, we literally saw the destruction of the old establishment right before our eyes as people and communities who have been forgotten for the better part of the last 50 years showed up and shocked the world.  Hopefully in 50 years we look back on this election as a positive, and even if the short term is a negative, perhaps this will set the precedent for the future that it really is a peoples country and not one run by corporations.

 

Really the Left only has themselves to blame, they became so confident in themselves that they left the common citizen behind in favor for wall street, corporate America, overseas industry, and most importantly, themselves.

 

I'm glad to see the lives of career politicians crumble before our eyes, closely followed by mass media who has so strongly supported the money making narrative over people.  I don't think Trump has shown he's the guy for the job, but I'm glad someone finally broke through.  My hope is that he mellows his attitude and actually gets the people to work together and find solutions to problems that aren't going away under the watch of the establishment in Washington.

My suggestion; start a crowdfunding to pay the fines for the electorals to break the state control so they can vote for someone else.

I have to admit, this is an embarrassing day to be an American (though as usual, my home state (NY) came through with a resounding democratic victory so I can take some solace in that, as entirely expected as it was). I can't get over the fact that with limitless information (literally) at our fingertips, people absolutely refuse to read anything, to fact check anything and to pay any attention to the sources where they get their information.

Personally I do think Hillary Clinton is a weak candidate and I don't find her trustworthy, but she's dishonest within reasonable parameters. She's dishonest like most other politicians are dishonest and she doesn't usually lie about things that can be easily fact checked. Major talking points like the idea that she was responsible for wrongdoing in Benghazi and the idea that there was something damming in these emails have been disproven over and over again but nobody cares because nobody cares about facts anymore.

Donald Trump on the other hand is a pathological liar. He blatantly lies about things that can be disproven with a 2 second Google search and he cites sources that are in no way legitimate like Breitbart because he thinks that if he links to them enough it somehow makes them legitimate.

He created a lie that the media and any news source with journalistic integrity was lying and dishonest and rather than actually reading what these outlets were saying and doing any research, people immediately stopped listening and created their own reality where fake news sources became household names and Facebook memes became legitimate news outlets.

Anything that supports Trump is true, everything else is the "dishonest media". He knows that many Americans are stupid and he's exploited it perfectly. Just the other day he linked to a Washington Post story about how he was improving in the polls because he likes the headline knowing full well that nobody would actually read the article where it went on to say that he was unlikely to win the election (how did that work out?). He pretended he never tweeted things that he still had on his Twitter account, at one point he took an old screenshot of his BBB rating for Trump University with the URL in place knowing full well that nobody would spend the 2 seconds necessary to actually type it in and realize that he was completely lying. He banked on Americans being idiots and it paid off.

I'm so disgusted with this country. We elected someone with very few actual policies and the few policies that he does have are entirely impractical in addition to in many cases bigoted / unconstitutional / immoral and in one case an international war crime (referring to the idea that we should kill the families of terrorists).

I understand some of Trump's appeal. Political correctness is completely over the top and it was only a matter of time before people fought back and Washington is completely incompetent in many ways but this is a ridiculous overreaction to those problems.

Anyway, that's my rant on this. I don't know if anyone cares but it's beyond frustrating at this point, and the fact that he's likely to have Newt Gingrich... arguably the dumbest person in politics as Secretary of State just makes it even more embarrassing.

 

I'm not angry, everyone who voted did so because they believed that they were doing the right thing for their country, but I entirely disagree with the idea that voting for Donald Trump was the solution to our problems.

As a staunch Bernie supporter, I am absolutely devastated at Trump's win. I supported Hillary only out of "Never Trump" ideology, despite the fact that I never liked her as a candidate. But 4 years of Hillary was tolerable. 4 years of Trump? I'm afraid. Let me explain.

 

Firstly, I'd like to congratulate the DNC for shooting themselves in the foot with their completely idiotically brazen attempts at giving Hillary the Democratic nomination over Bernie. This is a whole other discussion on its own but it was disgusting to watch the bias of the corrupt establishment at play.

 

Now, after the dust of the primaries settled with Hillary as the (undeserved) victor, I had no choice but to vote the lessor of two evils because the Republican party imploded during their own primaries and ended up with an orange reality-TV host as the official presidential nominee. I thought it was a bad joke. It wasn't.

 

Watching the election season play out was literally like watching reality TV. It was horrible for all the worst reasons, but our morbid curiosity was well satiated with this joke of an election season. What was important to note, however, was the shift of attitudes against the "politically correct" left with the rise of the Alt-Right, Neo-Nazi groups, and normal poor whites who were struggling to make a living and wanted change. Trump, as horrible as he is, gave them a reason to vote. He mobilized the disaffected masses of uneducated poor whites that were being alienated as our society became more progressive and equal. Hillary only gave us headaches with the never-ending email scandal, and never really gave us a strong message to support the way Obama did. Even Trump's pussy grabbing couldn't stop him; like a snake oil salesman, his charisma, unabashed attitude and outsider status pushed the uneducated masses to buy what he was selling, the one thing that they believe Obama didn't give them: change.

 

The main reason why I'm afraid for a world in which 4 years of a Trump presidency is our unfortunate reality and not dystopic fiction is not because of all the horrible things that may or may not happen within our borders (I have to have faith that sane conservatives in congress / HoR will stop Trump's worst promises from coming to fruition...), but with how America will now position itself on the world stage. Liampie is right to be interested in American politics because as the world's military guardian and the most powerful country in the world, how we operate will affect EVERYONE, especially Europe and the Middle East.

 

Despite saying he will "bomb the hell out of ISIS", I doubt Trump will want to take us to war. He does, however, have a huge distrust for NATO, no aptitude for international relations, support from nationalist regimes throughout Europe, and a hand extended out to Russia. Being so focused on immigration and the US economy, Trump's America will be missing from the world stage, and America's absence as an international arbiter boosts Russian confidence, spelling disaster for the EU, and provoking unknown consequences in the Middle East. The uncertainty is so high that we're already predicted by nobel prize winning economists to go into a recession because of last night's upset. It's that bad.

 

The worst fear is that with the rise of populist movements throughout Europe, with Brexit, and now with Trump, we're at a time when the political pendulum has swung back to the right in a way that's not truly traditionally conservative but rather reactionary, not so different from the way the disaffected people banded around a certain charismatic leader promising to make Germany great again back in the 30s... and despite the eye rolls that refer to Godwin's law, the comparison holds. The result will destabilize Europe, boost Russian confidence, upend the already conflict ridden middle east, and drive the world into a new dark era of self-destruction that we've seen throughout history time and time again. 

 

I realize that this may seem sensationalist. But if there's any time at all to be it, it's now. History has taught us that we never see it coming until it's here and it's too late; only in retrospect do we realize that everything was connected, every event, every movement, every election. No one could have foreseen that the assassination of an certain archduke would cause the eventual death of tens of millions of people... but it happened. The tides of humanity are capricious, and it certainly seems true today.

 

All in all, I am not one to outright demonize the American people as bigots and racists simply because of their political choices; they were made in reaction and in ignorance. Today was a somber reminder that education should always be our biggest priority, because a democracy cannot survive with an uneducated populace who will vote for the first shill that comes along promising to make America great again.

 

P.S. Let's pray that Marine Le Pen stays out of the presidency in France.

Embarassing. A woman with decades of political experience has been beaten by a man who just got into politics last year. The fact that a leader who advocates such hate for minorities, constantly objectifies women, whose advisor supports lgbt conversion therapy, suggested that muslims should be banned from the country, proves that 'the land of the free' is not free at all, and your country is still continually fueled by bigotry and fear. Anyone who suggests that they were equally bad candidates just perfectly allows your white, straight male priviledge to gleam through and should be ashamed of themselves for being so disgustingly selfish.

 

I'm still with her.

I'm glad to see the lives of career politicians crumble before our eyes, closely followed by mass media who has so strongly supported the money making narrative over people.  I don't think Trump has shown he's the guy for the job, but I'm glad someone finally broke through.  My hope is that he mellows his attitude and actually gets the people to work together and find solutions to problems that aren't going away under the watch of the establishment in Washington.

This is what I'm happy to see. I think people felt Trump will empower them, rather than just career politicians who constantly talk about bolstering the middle class, but really are just catering to their careers, party, and other interests.

I don't know how this shit happened. How do you look at Trump and the Republican platform and support that? Gay marriage reversal, denial of climate change, planned parenthood/abortion rights revoked, etc. Not to mention all the lewd remarks and false accusations he's made. I never liked Hillary much; I was always a Bernie supporter. However, there was clearly a lesser of two evils, and people were strangely disillusioned to that.

We had a good run, America.

I don't know how this shit happened. How do you look at Trump and the Republican platform and support that? Gay marriage reversal, denial of climate change, planned parenthood/abortion rights revoked, etc. Not to mention all the lewd remarks and false accusations he's made. I never liked Hillary much; I was always a Bernie supporter. However, there was clearly a lesser of two evils, and people were strangely disillusioned to that.

We had a good run, America.

 

This is a good article explaining the failure of the Democratic party and the rise of charismatic snake oil salesman:

 

https://www.currenta...-what-to-do-now

I don't know how this shit happened. How do you look at Trump and the Republican platform and support that? Gay marriage reversal, denial of climate change, planned parenthood/abortion rights revoked, etc. Not to mention all the lewd remarks and false accusations he's made. I never liked Hillary much; I was always a Bernie supporter. However, there was clearly a lesser of two evils, and people were strangely disillusioned to that.

I agree completely. Honestly the most disastrous consequences of this will will probably have to do with climate change. Hopefully the rest of the world can lead the fight while we attempt to get our collective heads out of our asses since for some reason science is now a political issue.

Anyone who denies climate change at this point is completely incompetent and we don't have time to screw around for another 4 years. The problem is that it's an easy issue for short-sighted politicians (and people in general) to put on the back burner and let someone else deal with it down the line.

Americans need to demand action on this, but at this point I have zero faith in Americans to use common sense. People need to be willing to disagree with their party on more issues, and this is true of both Republicans and Democrats. Personally as a Democrat I have no issue saying that I disagreed with Hillary Clinton on some things and agreed with Trump. For example I think going into an election demonizing a major world leader (Putin) when you'll need to work with him once you're elected is stupid regardless of what you think of him. I also agree with Trump to a point on some of our trade deals. Honestly on some trade related issues he and Bernie Sanders are almost in complete agreement. I would love for democrats to concede their stances a little on these things and attempt to compromise but at the same time, Republicans need to cross party lines on climate change and gay rights. The latter is happening but it's happening at a snails pace and this election could be a major setback. The former (for some reason) is an area where Republicans have displayed an almost unimaginable lack of common sense and rejection of reality.

This is a good article explaining the failure of the Democratic party and the rise of charismatic snake oil salesman:
 
https://www.currenta...-what-to-do-now

That article is a little histrionic, don't you think? I mean, label me a sexist for making a lewd comment here and there once in a while. We've had presidents sleep with extramarital women in office, yet JFK is our guy though - hell people like Bill too.

That article is a little histrionic, don't you think? I mean, label me a sexist for making a lewd comment here and there once in a while. We've had presidents sleep with extramarital women in office, yet JFK is our guy though - hell people like Bill too.

 

Did you read the article? It's a little sensationalist with the descriptions of Trump but with good reason. It's dramatic because the whole political system has been upended. This is not a simple case of McCain or Romney (career politicians) winning; this is a whole new ball game and we've never played this before, where an outsider who lies constantly, insults entire groups of people, mistreats women, disrespects others' religions and ideologies, has been charged with sexual assault and fraud, etc. is elected into office despite all of this.

 

Anyway, the interesting bits are the reasons behind why the liberal party failed and the republicans triumphed, and what this presidency means for us now that we're faced with a non-political establishment candidate such as Trump. It's really unexplored territory, this is really something new.

I was referring to the dramatic vilification of Trump, and thereby half of America. The rest is an alright read, but really it boiled down to Dems picking just the flat out wrong person. It really was a good representation of establishment vs anti-establishment. Hilary's flaws personify the worst in the establishment, and Trump's, those of an outsider. The choice was essentially chosen for Dems, and GoP got swept to the antithesis of their candidate.

Still, just incredibly short-sighted to even have those two.