General Chat / I miss quality

I don't want to be mean here or be elitist in any way but I have to speak my mind...

 

The quality NE has been known for for over 10years is failing!

We've had an influx of new members wich is great and all, but the screens and releases are just such a step down from what I'm used to see here on the site. Also the fact that less experienced members are now also judges for accolades makes the downgrade in parkmaking an even more prominent reality to me... I don't want to offend anybody here (so I won't be naming specifics) but some releases as of late are really overscored and not deserving of some of the medals they've earned in my opinion. Seeing what better parks scored 2years back and seeing they scored lower than some less aestheticly pleasing and less skilled parks have gotten lately.

 

I hereby urge EVERY member of NE to strive and become a player that would've been worthy of being here 4-5years ago, I remember my first screens here being dissected object by object by pros like turtle, steve, J K and many others. I ask the more "elite" parkmakers to do this again for the new influx of members, yes these people are the continuation of our community, but it's also the responsability of the senior members to keep pushing everyone towards high quality. Give comments, give feedback, BE HARSH again like I've always known some members to be, be open about your view. Aim for that perfection we've grown to love in this game.

 

I ask the members of the panel to score lower, be more of a bitch when you view something, think in a way of what would've made this park better that what you're seeing. I'm not asking to downjudge great parks, but skip the 5% charity we all know we give sometimes.

 

Again I don't want to offend people and I'm simply stating my view here since I love seeing good rct and most of the screens on the front page at the moment aren't the quality NE is known for, bring pride to the site and to yourself again and post great screens only, be the best you can and aim for "NE-grade" screens and parks.

 

-BG-

"better the world, start with yourself"

why you think I actually posted screens from hurricane and jaguar? not that I think that highly of myself but I'm trying to post the best screens I can...

i know that, it's just that i haven't seen you commenting on parks and screens all too much. you seem to complain about those things, considering you could be considered one of those people at the moment you could definitely do those things yourself for a bit. it's not that i don't agree with you though, i really miss constructive criticism too on my screens. 

Lets start with im not a elite member, and don't claim to be. My level of work doesn't really roll with the pros. I joined somewhere around 2 years ago, and lurked for a while before that. I really enjoy looking at other peoples stuff, especially high quality work  

 

I agree, in my opinion the quality has taken a dip since ive been here. but thats just my opinion. we've seen a style change, a step away from the hyper realism heavy detailing which I prefer. I think now there's less CS, more macro building, and alot of newer members. I have mixed feelings about this. Great for the future, very promising blah blah blah. But also new builders means lower quality work

 

I think alot of this has to do with the new site layout, its more user friendly. People feel more confident posting screens, and the site has lost the prestigious feel. I don't know if i like that part of it. I used to think of this as the best rollercoaster forum on the web, and it still is. the community just doesn't have that same elitism mentality anymore, i really miss it.

 

Gdb. that's a shallow comment. We are all obviously working to improve our own building capabilities. BG has been around a long time and constantly produces work on a scale that YOU and I dont match. Id keep that in mind before you throw daggers

 

theres my two cents 

did i say my work was good? i never said that. it's just that posting a few short comments a week yourself doens't help much, though he currently is one of the few doing it so there's that. i'm definitely not throwing daggers, but BG could start out by being like the people he described himself

 

edit: i take back what i said about BG. looks like afterall he did start with himself

I think people are less mean, but quality hasn't dropped. Can't be bothered with a long response on my phone now sorry

What you think of as 'good', is not necessarily what other people think of as good. For example, you seem to dislike shit that I like, and seem to like shit that I hate. For me, there is not really a problem in quality dropping. Maybe it is because there are more screens posted that you have to see. With the topics you could just ignore a topic if you knew it was going to be shitty anyway. 

 

I think it's not a matter of Quality but it's a matter of quantity!

 

I was a member of this site 11 years ago. And my last update of work I made is 7 (maybe more) years ago. In that time there where great builders that build great things. Like J K, Kumba, Steve, Egghead, Turtle, X250, Mala, Toon, Corkscrewed, Fatha, ride6, Tylor and many more. They made the best stuff and are still IMO the best builders around. they grew up with RCT(LL) and RCT2. Some are still active but most of them quit building. creativity is still the same but i think we don't see real NEW things. maybe we reached the top of the RCT creativity?! im still planning a comeback and build my Thunder rock park even further... 

The issue I have is with the ratings system. Yes, it's more 'democratic', but it's very easily manipulated. My screens tend to hover around the 80% mark, which normally that'd be fantastic - that's borderline spotlight quality. But, taking a look at a number of screens all around the 80% mark shows a huuuuge difference in quality in my personal opinion:

 

http://www.nedesigns...-nugget-saloon/

http://www.nedesigns...t/119/terminal/

http://www.nedesigns...t/334/entrance/

http://www.nedesigns...e-other-angles/

http://www.nedesigns.../210/fantasy-6/

http://www.nedesigns...hot/701/mexico/

http://www.nedesigns.../storm-station/

http://www.nedesigns...2/timber-falls/

http://www.nedesigns...82/hello-kitty/

http://www.nedesigns...8/furius-bacon/

http://www.nedesigns...6/furius-bacon/

 

I don't know about anyone else but for me it's pretty demotivating to see things like the pink Hello Kitty house in the 3rd last screen scoring 2% above my screens. I also think that people vote based on other screens - if they've just posted a screen and it's got 72% then someone else posts a screen and that's at 75%, the original person might vote 60% instead of the 70% they would do otherwise, hoping to bring that 75% down below the 72% of their own screen. On top of this, you've got people who seem to vote very highly on their own screens, or their friends screens. We've seen it with people like Wouter and I'm pretty sure that Mr Buckeyes latest screen had something going on as it was at 90%+ for the first few votes (For work which is no better than low silver quality).

 

It also seems that people who have big names get voted on more highly. Let's look at Robbie's screens:

 

http://www.nedesigns...riner-overview/

 

This is Robbie's lowest rated screenshot at 80%. It features a very nice coaster and some theming which also looks very very nice. He showed the theming closer up in other screens released at the same time. Even from the first comment, Liam says it could be his favourite thing from Robbie ever, and everyone else is commenting on how good the layout is. So the theming, going from the other screens, is around 85% quality work, and the coaster layout has not had a bad word said about it, quite the opposite in fact. So how has this screenshot lost 5% compared to the others of this project? 

 

Then we look at something like this:

 

http://www.nedesigns.../683/log-flume/

 

This is rated 87%. It shows two log flume drops, and a bit of foliage. The detailing on the log flume is obviously very nice, but I don't see how this scores 7% higher than a screenshot of an amazing layout AND some quality theming.

 

 

So yeah, I think that the scoring system is making people more willing to post crappy screenshots. As for not getting as much feedback, people who score a screenshot don't always feel the need to post a comment afterwards.

I agree with Faas, in that there's a great difference in opinion between different members, and with an influx of new members, there's going to be a lot more diversity in terms of style and what things are made. Also agree on the point about the older system allowing you to ignore parks/people that didn't pique your interest.

 

I think the new system encourages advertising, of anything. Before, you would have to have a significant screenshot to start a brand new topic, and hopefully a desire to push the project somewhere. Otherwise, you were welcome to stick any screen in the Dump Place, where it would be commented on or ignored as necessary. Now, the front page is serving as a host for both project material and Dump Place material, intertwined.

 

I don't think there is a drop in quality. It is just interspersed with the more experimental, unfinished and jokey screens.

I think people are less mean, but quality hasn't dropped. Can't be bothered with a long response on my phone now sorry

 

 

I agree with this. With the age of the game I think people have realized that it's important to welcome almost anyone still interested in playing it into the community instead of having an elitist attitude if their work isn't up to par and driving them away. This is part of the reason why I never posted anything here until recently (though I've been a member and have appreciated the quality of work shown here for over 10 years). I never thought I was good enough to post here but recently I've noticed that the dynamics of the community have changed and I started posting here. While I've still got a long way to go the helpful feedback I've received here made me a much better player than I was before.

 

I think this is why it seems like quality is dropping. If someone new shows up and people vote their screens as 2.5% it's going to drive them away. Because of that people generally encourage these players and vote the screens higher as they probably should. You never know who's going to improve to the point that they're the next Robbie or Pac. I think it just seems like quality is dropping if you look at some of the screens posted and the ratings on those screens but if you look at the parks that are being released and winning accolades I think the quality is dramatically improving (especially with realistic spotlight parks like Starpointe and Thorpe Park).

 

Just as an example, when Robbie released Six Flags Santa Fe (a park that I personally love) it got a 90%. Thorpe Park just recently got the same score even though (as Robbie himself said in a stream) Thorpe Park is much better. That leads me to believe that standards are actually getting higher as the game continues to evolve.

 

Also, as an aside I want to say that I absolutely don't mean to put down Six Flags Santa Fe. I used it as an example because I remember Robbie saying in a stream that he doesn't think it would be considered spotlight quality if it was released today which is why it was an easy example to use. I acknowledge that it's a much better park than I'm capable of building and it has some great layouts, ideas and coaster interaction... it's just not on the same hyper-detailed level as Thorpe or Robbie's new projects.

i strongly agree with trav here, people sometimes rate way above what something would actually get in accolade voting, and sometimes at about the same level. personally i rate screens on the same basis that i'd rate parks, which usually causes me to give ratings 5% lower than avarage. though on second thought i also agree with BG. we don't exactly need to be very elitist again, but we can definitely all do our best to give as much contructive criticism as possible.

I think that because of less activity now in comparison to let's say the 'Iris-age', it seems as if people are less harsh as there is less 'reference material', but on the other side the level of detail has increased quite drastically compared to those times. So it's kind of unavoidable imo..

rating screens is much different than rating a park, as you're not judging certain things like path layouts and ride composition, but you factor in things like completeness, interesting focal points, and general composition of the screen. It's like comparing photography to painting.

this was @ trav and gdb.

This website has been around for 10+ years. It sees different "eras" and you're in one right now where a lot of the older members and not-so-old members have stopped producing work leaving a new wave of members come in. They'll get better the same way the legends did. I understand you're not complaining or meaning to offend, but really, you kind of are. I mean, if you're (or anyone) not satisfied with a bunch of new guys building then what do you want us to do? Like I said, NE has been around since I was a kid and I'm pushing 26, I'm happy its even still online. Who cares if its not like the glory days. It probably never will be.

Times change. People change. Styles change. Opinions change.

 

To expect the community to maintain the same level of quality for twelve years is a little unrealistic. Like Steve, I'm just happy this place is still here. It brought me a lot of great memories in high school.

BG, it's nice to see you care for the site like that. I agree with you, but I feel nothing can be done about it. The site's output is its input.

I think it's a lot of factors contributing to the site feeling empty lately, even with a lot of solid rct work being posted. This site has been around for a long time and it's hard to avoid a feeling of 'been there done that' for a lot of the members who have been here for a long time. There are members who joined several years after I have who have understandably hit that burn out point. This is one of my favorite online communities I have been a part of and I'd hate to see it wither and die but I am a part of the problem as I only have a casual interest in the site and rct in general. Many of us are hitting mid to late 20s and it's hard to find the time.

 

One thing I do urge the current admin team to do is to look at a few adjustments to the site as a whole. I think adding in a stream list to the front page that shows online streams and the list of active rct streaming channels would be amazing for the site. Encouraging streaming would be really beneficial for the site. I know that the time I was inspired to play rct this year was a few months back when robbie and a few others were streaming regularly, and a few months before that when Pac was streaming regularly.

This site has been around for a long time and it's hard to avoid a feeling of 'been there done that' for a lot of the members who have been here for a long time. 

 

 

 

the sad truth. I'm pretty much here and have been since H2H5. H2H6 sparked some of my love but it wasn't the same...

 

Also, the hyper-realism this site adopted after H2H5 killed my interest tbh