General Chat / Another mall shootout (Oregon/Portland)

Megamindy, interesting points. I agree so much with your thought that this lies deeper than gun laws. But,
-No American is insured? against robbery? That simply isnt true. A lot of us are. There are some loopholes and things like deductables (I'm not to sure that much about insurance really, so I cant argue these points very well...)
-If I get robbed I could care less about my possesions. I'd own a gun to protect myself. They can whatever they want so long as my family and I are safe.
-Bigger and badder guns don't make a whole lot of a difference. The smallest gun is going to mess you up.
-So If someone pulls a gun on me, in my house, and I shoot and kill them, does that make me a criminal? (I'm asking in terms of opinion, not the actual law.)
-I'll agree on anything fully automatic and semi automatic guns being only in the hands of the law.
-I won't argue that you don't think guns should'nt be a hobby, but the fact is they are. People who own guns as a hobby don't accidentally shoot people in the head. They go to gun ranges. Or they go hunting. Where I used to live, our neighbors would have parties where everyone brought there guns and shot them, in a safe way. They had hundreds of acres. There are a lot of stupid hobbies. Fireworks are stupid and pointless. They are a lot of fun to buy and set off. I'm not going to throw them into crowds. Track driving is a lot of fun, but I'm going to obey the rules on the street. In the end, all three of these examples have no real benefit except they entertain me.
-Agree, weapons and drugs don't compare. But the point that people will obtain and use things that are illegal still stands.

What tha fuck

What is wrong with the USA, bragging about their "freedom" their great and worthless country has laws and rights that were outdated before one of us was even born. Owning a gun is and should be seen as a felony. A gun is a killing machine, no other way to look at it. They are not fucking toys.
The problem lays deeper than gun laws. I think it has something to do with the fact that no American sitizen is insured. so if they get robbed they have to protect their stuff the hard way. Since most people have a baseball bat or something to hit the burglar, the burglar prepares with bringing a gun. At that point the person who might get get robbed has to prepare by buying a bigger gun. and so on.
As someone said earlier, anyone can turn into a criminal under the wrong circumstances. And when there is a gun in your house, it makes it so much easier to just go and shoot everybody. instead of thinking twice.
And then you have semi or fully automatic weapons... they shouldn't be allowed to be in anyone's possession except in the army or something like that. No one should ever have something dangerous like that at home. You have the right to do anything you want. But the people who live around you also have the right to live safe and don't get shot in the head by accident. by someone who owns guns as a hobby. I don't have 14 different types of nukes laying around my house because that is my hobby.
I think it's clear. No one should ever be allowed to own a gun without a suiting job.

And to people who compare weapons with drugs. FUCK YOU. If you use drugs, you damage yourself. That is your own responsibility. I you use guns, you endanger everything and anyone around you. And that is BONKERS....

1st paragraph - don't generalize all U.S. citizens like that. MANY of us realize the flaws within our system.

2nd paragraph - Amen

I was just stating that to the big gun activists in this country thats how they view it. A commodity, such as the things I stated. I'm not saying I agree with it at all, I'm just pointing out how a lot of people view it.

yes because no one's ever harmed another human being while being under the influence of some sort of substance so your right.. fuck me.. What a fantastic go to/ argument.

While media claims to bring the news of these shootings for your benefit, and as respect to the families involved, I can't help but think that the exuberant coverage of these events only fans the flames. If we give so much attention to these awful things, maybe the crazies think it's the only way they can prove their point to the public. I'm aware I sound like a complete asshole, and I encourage you to argue with me, but I think it raises a tough question about whether or not we should blow up these events and make them known in every household, because a lot of the media certainly doesn't do it out of respect. I can't and doubt I will ever know how I could handle the situation of my child being killed in a shooting, but I don't think I would want the story of my child's death plastered onto every television in America. Pictures of the killer shouldn't be on every channel, nor pictures of the bodies. I guess it would just take a cultural shift, because I see people glorify tragedy as if it makes them a better human being, but I actually think that in many cases it does the opposite, and that you aren't really helping by paying so much attention to it. Rather, I think it would be much more helpful to donate your time and effort (or money) to causes that help the families affected directly, or ones which improve school security. The easy way out is to watch it and say you care by spreading it around some more, but in reality people don't really want to help, they just want to feel like they are, and that's the idea that I think should change. Watching it and sharing it does not necessarily help anyone. I think Kony 2012 is a great example of this idea. Spreading news stories doesn't solve the world's problems.

Every fucking time a mass shooting happens, it's so easy for everyone to start pointing fingers at guns, and before you know it everyone is in a massive gun control debate. Maybe though, the answers behind all the violence is much closer to our habits everyday, such as what we choose to direct our attention towards. So if my theory is right, is it any surprise that this event takes place the same year as the Aurora shooting? Of course not! There is no amount of fair laws that could possibly ever prevent things like this happening, so more control isn't a great answer to this. The world isn't coming to end, society isn't becoming increasingly violent, we don't have a major crisis on our hands, because the world is a big place with a lot of people, and shit does happen. The best way for the general public to stop these shootings from happening is to turn off their TV's when that shit comes on. People love to blame the big organizations and the government because it puts the problem out of their hands, when really it's almost all their fault entirely.

So, there's a fresh perspective. Can we all stop fucking talking about guns, and start arguing with me now?

Australia hasnt had a single gun shooting since the reform in around 1996, much better then your supposed safe country imawesome

Australia hasnt had a single gun shooting since the reform in around 1996, much better then your supposed safe country imawesome

Given I live alongside another 310 million people, I still feel pretty safe.

We have had maybe 100 people killed in the last 10 years in mass shooting? Thats a tiny tiny percent of all deaths. Bring gun related murders into it and it goes up quite a lot, but is still miniscule. http://en.wikipedia....l_homicide_rate According to this .0054% of the population is murdered every year, and who knows how much that % goes down when narrowed down to gun related murders. Mass murders are just extremely good at getting media attention. Fact it, more people are going to murdered indivdually in the rest of this country than where killed in this school today. Not to mention America is a huge place, if broken down into Australia sized chunks it would'nt look as bad, if that makes any sense.

Moral of the story is, no one walks around constantly afraid they're going to get shot up. Try Mexico or someplace for that.

In other news, I'm really interested to see what the hell this guy had as motivation or what was up with him.

Well, I just thought I'd post my sympathy for those that lost their lives lately. This has to be among the most tragic things I have read lately. I just fail to understand the motives for such a heinous act. It especially depresses me that the witnesses of mass shootings will remain scarred years after the attack.

I would also have to agree with That Guy on the fact that these things shouldn't be publicized. When watching the local news, I mostly hear murders, disasters, and whatnot. It is truly a tragedy. Although the U.S. isn't unsafe at all. I can go outside at midnight looking for trouble and tripping on my shoelaces would be the worst thing that would happen. I can drive a few minutes away and end up in a town that looks like a battle took place in it. You cannot make generalizations with 310 million people in the most diverse country in the world. New Hampshire and Iowa are practically crimeless. Louisiana has a comparable murder rate to Nigeria and Russia .

In other news, I'm really interested to see what the hell this guy had as motivation or what was up with him.

Here's the problem.

Guys. Shit needs to change. We need to be facilitators of that change, too. Each and every one of us.

This is the world we live in. This is our society; this is our civilization. We are at the peak of the human race. We are the epitome of what makes us humanity.

And here we are. Mass killings seem to be on a bit of a rise as of late.

We need to facilitate change in this society -- in our society -- and in our world. We need to LOVE. We need to lead our lives -- each and every second of our small, pitiful, meaningless lives, as if they'd be our last. Truth be told, I don't know when the fuck I'm gonna die. I can guess all I want, but I have no clue. Nobody does.

So here we are, sitting in school or working on the 86th floor in downtown New York City. A day like any other. It could -- quite abruptly -- be your last day, too.

Lead a life that inspires others to follow suit; a life that changes the mentalities of others through example. Loving goes a long way, its a powerful emotion with profound effects on others. So love others; you probably won't run out of love to give.

Right now there are 20+ families in Newtown, Connecticut who have lost a Kindergartener. The life of their children was ripped from their grasp. Just gone. In china, a man slashed 22 children near a school. That's 22 Chinese children who are going to have some serious mental repercussions because of what one fuck-up did to them.

Dammit. Just dammit. This shooting has really ruined my day. I'm 16 years old. It is December, 2012. I'm scared for what the world is going to be like when I'm 30 or 40 and I've got my own kindergartener. I sure as hell hope I can send them to school without worrying about their safety.

Shit needs to change. I probably just rambled a fuckton, but whatever. Just had to get something off my chest and throw down two cents.

^Things are getting better man. We just can't ever settle.

Here's the problem.

You know, I agree with everything you posted two posts up^ and I wanted to argue but couldn't. I'm just the type of person who is addicted to information. I havent watched any TV coverage of this, just whats been on the internet.

Louisiana has a comparable murder rate to Nigeria and Russia /> .

It's a miracle i've survived for sixteen years without getting shot.

[quote name='Wanted' date='15 December 2012 - 01:57 AM' timestamp='1355533020' post='609398']
1st paragraph - don't generalize all U.S. citizens like that. MANY of us realize the flaws within our system?



I know I shouldn't generalize all US citizens. But sometimes it is SO hard not to... You live by the same rules (mostly). And anyone who is a proud American has no clue what is wrong with their country as a whole. Not just a nice civilized inhabitant like you.
Let's no go there where I make all kinds of accusations and everybody gets hurt.

I also believe that shooting someone no matter how your life was in danger, is not a thing you can ever ever ever even think about. It is the most inhuman thing to do. You can hurt him as bad as you want. because he is wrong. But please people in the red states;don't just go and shoot trespassers. Rather call the cops.

I don't get the fear that many Americans have that they should buy a gun to PROTECT their families. Recently a father shot his son in the dark. Because he thought he was a burglar. While his sun was just getting something to drink in the middle of the night. This happens WAY to often. And if your possessions are not the thing you care about the most, then why would you endanger you family by bringing a killing machine into your own damn house. NUTS.
This doesn't happen in my country. People don't have the though of buying a gun to protect their family. They just buy a good lock on their doors and windows. isn't that more civilized?

And I agree in many ways with That Guy.
-MM

I also believe that shooting someone no matter how your life was in danger, is not a thing you can ever ever ever even think about. It is the most inhuman thing to do. You can hurt him as bad as you want. because he is wrong.

When your life is being threatened, your dealing with someone who is inhumane themselves. Their agenda is a lot different from yours, and sometimes you have to deal with these people in inhumane ways. How do you plan on hurting him? Hitting a guy with a gun with a baseball bat? If this guy has a gun, he's willing to take your life. You should be prepared to have to take his to. This is the same agenda any Police officer is going to use to. If I choose to pull a gun on a cop, he is going to assume my intentions are to kill him, and you better believe his intentions are to be the first to pull the trigger.
Hell, in this county you can be put to death for certain crimes.

But please people in the red states;don't just go and shoot trespassers. Rather call the cops.

Not just the red states mate.
Cops aren't everywhere. They can't show up instantly. You better believe they got to that school today as fast as they could, and yet he still managed to kill 20 people and himself.

Recently a father shot his son in the dark. Because he thought he was a burglar. While his sun was just getting something to drink in the middle of the night. This happens WAY to often. And if your possessions are not the thing you care about the most, then why would you endanger you family by bringing a killing machine into your own damn house. NUTS.

Which is why I'm actually all for stricter gun control. It should be like driving, you should have to take classes, get mental backgrounds checks, so on. You shouldn't be able to walk into a walmart and buy one right now. They are powerful things, you need to know how to use it. And, you should have the right tools. I have several high powered flashlightsthat could temporarily blind an intruder, not to mention identify him. Don't forget to keep it locked up to.
Guns stop a lot of crimes in the right hands as google shows.
And I agree, another google result shows way to many accident. Once again, because idiots get their hands on them.Link

This is still not a gun issue, but a mental health issue.

I'm just disappointed.

We Brits found your country for you and look what you've done with it!

*





*smiley used to show that this is a light hearted joke to adjust the mood of the topic as many people have difficulty reading the tone of text

I am sure the Queen is dissapointed by the behavior of her colonies.

Also an interesting article.
http://en.wikipedia....School_shooting

This is still not a gun issue, but a mental health issue.

I am not sure about this one. As said, anyone can turn into a criminal under the wrong circumstances.
Many cops go crazy and shoot innocent people, they had a background check. A background check or mental-heath test are in no way a guarantee that people don't damage innocent people with them. Guns make killing people so much easier.

I also dont agree with you on the burglar thing. Someone who breaks into your house is not there to kill you or you family. So if you just do nothing and keep as quiet as possible or just cooperate you should be safer then threatening him with a gun. That makes him fear is his life and then he will shoot you, DUH.

Lets say some dude lives in the USA. He is a law abiding citizen who loves to hunt. Nothing wrong with that.
He owns several guns just to shoot some deers or whatever. One day he gets fired from his job, his wife leaves him and he realizes that he has nothing to live for. What do you think is going to happen? No one should ever have guns in their home. It doesn't matter if you are a cop or an ex-marine. NO working gun should ever be near a family.

You cant protect someone or yourself with guns. You kill or threaten an other. When you do that, you are just as much or even more of a criminal as the person who might just be a small time burglar without a gun breaking into your house because he has nothing else to live from.

I agree that cops dont allways show up on time. But killing someone who inst even threatening your life in the first place, even on your own property. Can not be justified.

 gunstats.jpg (55.06KB)
downloads: 4

I think this speaks for itself. There's a link to the detailed stats in the picture too.

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