General Chat / Another mall shootout (Oregon/Portland)

^I'm a ninja. I'd bet money on the fact that I could hit you with the hockey stick first. It's a simple case of me moving instantly out of the way whilst launching the hockey stick at you.

And I always thought that if you kill someone, even in self-defense, you're most likely looking at a prison sentence of some kind. Especially if said person hasn't actually shot at you yet, but you've shot them down straight away.

WWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWHat about people who arent ninja's. IE most of America. Cause were fat.
And what about the commies. You saw Red Dawn right? what if that shit happened.

Fun Fact, btw, I'm actually going to leave and go play hockey now.
Thats right bitch. I freaking play the sport. come at me bro.

also-stuff

nothing. you do nothing. even with more strict gun laws, criminal acts like this will happen. if these people are willing to even consider doing something as disgusting as what occurred the other day, what makes you think they won't find a way to get a gun? it's going to happen, regardless of the law.


marijuana has been 'illegal' for over 75 years now. have the strict laws resulted in a decline in usage? fuck no it hasn't. nobody is offered a joint, and turns it down because it is illegal. point begin, you can't stop it. sex, drugs, and guns are here to stay. if the people want it, the people will get it.

as long as criminals have guns, you can't tell non-criminals they can't also have guns to protect themselves. and i get that 'non-criminals' with a gun can easily turn into criminals themselves, but it's not the gun that makes the choice to do so.

I simply don't believe this is true. This is the point a few of us have been trying to make. The guy who killed those kids wasn't in a gang and he wasn't until yesterday a criminal, he seems to have been a normal guy who snapped. The thing is in the USA it was easy for him to get a gun when he snapped, He had some in the house.

In countries like the UK he wouldn't have been able to do that. I couldn't go out and buy myself a gun, It's a simple case of I wouldn't know how and its really not easy. If I wanted to legally get a gun then I'd have to go through a protracted process to get one and that's not how people who snap work. They make rash decisions and act on impulse.

You are blurring the line between a criminal and a guy who just broke. By all accounts so far this guy wasn't a criminal, he didn't have criminal ties and he wasn't a gang member. He was able to shoot those people because he had a gun he could access so easily

If tomorrow I criticise Louis! park making and he gets so angry he snaps and wants to kill me be able to go out and get a gun to do it. He'd be stuck with his Hockey Stick... (And I have one of them too)

And for the last time, You can't use drugs as an alagory for guns, They are not even remotely in the same field, They just happen to be two things that are illegal.

-----------------------
There is ONE advantage I can see to having all those guns... When the Zombie Apocalypse happens you guys are sorted!

You better watch out roomie, Im pretty good with a hockey stick.

I imagine, what with you having a hockey stick too, it would be more like a sword fight.

I don't really get the whole 'gun as a defensive weapon' thing and the 'they've got a gun, so i need a gun'.

If someone comes into my house with a gun I have a perfectly good hockey stick next to my bed to use in defense, my friend has a baseball bat, my other friend a golf club.

You don't need a gun when you have something to whack someone over the head with.

Also, at the end of the day, if someone comes into your house with a gun and you shoot them, you've got a high chance of killing the person, which you'll then get sent to prison for, defense or not. You whack them over the head and you'll just knock them out and injure them, no prison sentence.

I'm telling everyone, fuck gun control, hockey sticks is where it's at.

Yes, all of our garages are personal armories. Heck, the chair I'm sitting on right now as I type can be used as a weapon. The keyboard itself can, but then again, not very effectively. Not all firearms are necessarily lethal. A blast to the limb from a low caliber round or shotgun is unlikely to kill. Also, I am not advocating violence by any means but it would be better for a criminal to die than innocent people to die AND a criminal to be permanently incarcerated.

Not only that but a crazy with a gun would be able to hurt more people if they are unarmed. There was a nut in Norway that killed 91 people, and I'm pretty sure the country has stricter gun laws than the U.S, but put that into perspective. The deadliest shooting in US history was little more than a third of that amount, and this guy was sentenced for what? 21 Years!!?? Bullshit to the fullest extent... People get sentences of similar times for traffic fatalities in the U.S. People constantly rant murder rates in the U.S. but that happens mostly in inner-city areas and the deep south.

The problem isn't gun control, it's us.

And for the last time, You can't use drugs as an alagory for guns, They are not even remotely in the same field, They just happen to be two things that are illegal.

the point was that you can't just expect something that is already ubiquitous to disappear because of a law.


Louis,the phrase 'don't bring a knife to a gun fight' rings true. it isn't just a cute little saying. i can't believe it, but i agree with jaguarkid140.

Not only that but a crazy with a gun would be able to hurt more people if they are unarmed. There was a nut in Norway that killed 91 people, and I'm pretty sure the country has stricter gun laws than the U.S, but put that into perspective. The deadliest shooting in US history was little more than a third of that amount, and this guy was sentenced for what? 21 Years!!?? Bullshit to the fullest extent... People get sentences of similar times for traffic fatalities in the U.S. People constantly rant murder rates in the U.S. but that happens mostly in inner-city areas and the deep south.

Norway has one of the highest gun ownership rates in Europe (the Swiss have the highest), I'm not saying with strict gun control this sort of thing won't happen ever. But it will happen a less. The Sentence for Breivik is a joke in my opinion but that's superfluous to this debate, Sentencing is a whole different ball game.

The problem isn't gun control, it's us.

That's over simplifying massively, I'm not saying that Guns are the only problem,
There are two factors to take into account here, Human Nature and The guns themselves.
You need to focus on both not just one of these things.
If people who snap have access to guns they can kill people, It's just that simple, Yes they could use a chair or a knife but a gun is a whole other level.

My point is that you can't ever eradicate these things entirely, but you have to minimise the chances of it happening. In my opinion yes you need to focus on the human nature aspect, but effective gun control has to be a necessity too.

Not all firearms are necessarily lethal

Yes they are... Apart from maybe a paintball or airsoft gun, If you shoot someone in the leg the gun is still a lethal weapon, you just shot them somewhere that isn't lethal.

the point was that you can't just expect something that is already ubiquitous to disappear because of a law.

Agreed, and that's an issue we don't have over here. I'm not saying I know how to fix the issue but in my opinion something should be done even if it takes years.

Honestly this is a such a big problem that every citizen needs to help change. These shootings are just not right for humanity. Also, not on the shooting side...murder of innocent people is the worst as well. But what I do not get is how someone can be allowed a gun if they have the insanity to look a child in their eyes and pull the trigger. Everyone in this world needs to eat some fruit loops, smoke some mary j and be happy.

-

I don't get the argument that you need a gun to protect your family from burglars and criminals that enter your house. Does this happen that often to justify that many guns? Is the US really that scary and full of criminals? I always thought that's just what you see in the TV. Has any of you US guys witnessed a break in of some sort?!

"MFG"

Ruben, when you describe the criminals as "Mobsters with highly developed intel...", what did you mean? I personally have bit of pity for many criminals because they are usually confused and not very bright. The typical criminal in the U.S. isn't an evil mastermind, it's a kid or young adult living in an urban area that is looking for trouble (Drug Dealing, Mugging, being a member of a gang). Criminals, ranging from petty thugs to masterminds will usually use illegal firearms, and there is little that can be done about it except an extreme crack down. I would always see on the news several times a week an unfortunate kid that was murdered in the city so I feel the best action would be to increase education and authority. Heck, over in Chicago, people were proposing for the national guard to control crime rates. I personally became sick of the violence.

People think that violence is a common occurrence in the U.S., when it almost always happens in the cities. I live in a suburban area and haven't witnessed any violent crime, people have gone missing and vandalism has occurred, but very few murders have occurred in the town I live in, which happens to be located only a few minutes away from some of the most dangerous towns in the U.S.

Now on the subject of mass shooting, it is still an extremely rare occurrence and can literally happen anywhere. Gun control will help in that situation but the best thing to do IMO is to identify who is likely to snap and restrict them from owning a deadly weapon. Aside from that, the fact is as I've stated earlier, most crimes are committed in urban areas by criminals to people that are somehow involved in crime, not mass shootings or random acts of violence.

Edit: Also, 5Dave, I'm not sure if this would justify ownership but someone once stole golf clubs from my property. It wasn't much of a big deal though. People own guns for other reasons than defense.

I don't get the argument that you need a gun to protect your family from burglars and criminals that enter your house. Does this happen that often to justify that many guns? Is the US really that scary and full of criminals? I always thought that's just what you see in the TV. Has any of you US guys witnessed a break in of some sort?!

"MFG"

It's not, but exuberant media coverage on those topics makes people think they need guns.

People like guns and want to own them, so they justify it by saying they need them for self-defense.

I would always see on the news several times a week an unfortunate kid that was murdered in the city so I feel the best action would be to increase education and authority. Heck, over in Chicago, people were proposing for the national guard to control crime rates. I personally became sick of the violence.

People think that violence is a common occurrence in the U.S., when it almost always happens in the cities. I live in a suburban area and haven't witnessed any violent crime, people have gone missing and vandalism has occurred, but very few murders have occurred in the town I live in, which happens to be located only a few minutes away from some of the most dangerous towns in the U.S.

Criminality is a product of social equality. Cities are a hotbed of social inequality. Therefore crime-related violence seem to take place more often in cities. This is a superficial observation, I'm not certain if there's indeed more violence in cities, but I know that the US is a socialeconomical mess. It's your biggest problem and all other problems are related to that. Or half the country is retarded and the socialeconomical mess is related to that. Yes, that's it. Problem #1: retards --> problem #2: socialeconomical mess --> #3 the rest. 1 also connects with 3. Increase education and authority won't be very effective here.

hey my school is wearing green and white tommorow to show our sympythy for this event. I know that you guys are no where near where I live but if you want to could you guys do the same. I know its just a couple of people but if you spread the word it could multiply.

Criminality is a product of social equality. Cities are a hotbed of social inequality. Therefore crime-related violence seem to take place more often in cities. This is a superficial observation, I'm not certain if there's indeed more violence in cities, but I know that the US is a socialeconomical mess. It's your biggest problem and all other problems are related to that. Or half the country is retarded and the socialeconomical mess is related to that. Yes, that's it. Problem #1: retards --> problem #2: socialeconomical mess --> #3 the rest. 1 also connects with 3. Increase education and authority won't be very effective here.

Yes, the U.S. is in a bit of a social economical mess and that is why Latin America, which is more developed than most of the world, contains some of the most violent nations. Ironically, I live in a suburban town that I guess you could say has a murder rate of what, 0? I believe Chicago had a murder rate of 15.2. The dying industrial town to the north has a murder rate of above 50! The U.S. wasn't always a socioeconomic mess and it had nothing to do with guns or gun control as I was saying. The murder rate in the U.S. has doubled since 1960 and has only been decreasing recently. As an example, Detroit's murder rate in 1940 was... 4.9!! Now it is 41.6 and it used to be 56.6. When figures like that are given it isn't due to "retards" or a "social-economical mess." The rustbelt was once among the richest regions in the world, but a decline in industry and urban decay don't help cities and it only became worse when people emigrated into the ugly sprawling sunbelt cities. (Many of these cities were already crime filled and had a huge socio-economic gap, especially cities in the deep south)

Most western European cities haven't faced the same hardships that were faced by Midwestern cities in the 20th century. Eastern Europe, due to communism, has an incredibly high murder rate. Russia has a murder rate of 10.2 and compared to the diminutive rate of 4.2 for the U.S. (Lincoln Nebraska and San Diego both have murder rates of less than half that). Ukrain, Lithuania, Moldova, and Belarus are all higher than the U.S. The fact is, the U.S. wasn't always riddled with "murder capitals." Before you continually talk poorly of the U.S., Any western European country that faces a collapse and outsourcing of it's most important industries will be just as dangerous as the U.S.

Most of us are victims rather than violent criminals.

jaguar, you're literally just restating, in poorer terms, what liampe said, yet for some reason you seem hostile toward him?

jaguar, you're literally just restating, in poorer terms, what liampie said, yet for some reason you seem hostile toward him?

Not really restating, I'm supplying a reason to why violence is so prevalent. My intentions weren't hostile, perhaps a bit defensive. The fact is, Western Europe cannot be compared to the U.S. because it hasn't faced the same kind of economic hardship and inequality. Eastern Europe, for obvious reasons, is significantly more dangerous than most of the U.S.

This story literally makes me sick. I read about it once to understand the details and I listened to what the president had to say about it but I haven't watched any coverage on it it's just so disturbing

As for the gun debate it's fucking stupid to even have. All I'll say is that if you can't see it from both perspectives then I don't really want to hear what you have to say. Like yeah I understand it should be legal to have guns, we should be able to hunt for leisure and protect our families and it's our constitutional right and it's not guns that kill it's people and all that shit. And yeah I also agree that it's fucking absurd that this women had two handguns and a rifle in her house that should never be allowed. So basically I agree with pretty much every point being made and I don't understand how I could debate something when that is the case

I don't get the argument that you need a gun to protect your family from burglars and criminals that enter your house. Does this happen that often to justify that many guns? Is the US really that scary and full of criminals? I always thought that's just what you see in the TV. Has any of you US guys witnessed a break in of some sort?!

"MFG"

Yeah my house has been broken into once while I was alive and once when it was just my parents living there. So it definitely happens. As for whether we needed a gun in that situation, the answer's no but it's just impossible to say beforehand and therefore in my opinion stupid to debate

Honestly I just don't even understand what this gun debate is. On one extreme there's zero gun restriction and on the other there is a zero gun policy, but I'd say every sane human is somewhere in the middle. The only problem is that there's so many different levels in between whether it be for law enforcement, hunting, constituionality, protection, sporting guns, hobby guns or whatever that it's going to be impossible at this point to find a policy that a majority can agree upon. It's easy for people in countries that already have policies in place that seem to be working for you to say 'why don't you just do what we're doing over here it's working fine'. But I'd hope you could understand that it isn't that easy to change a culture that's been around for hundreds of years