General Chat / NE 2012 U.S. Election discussion.

Where are you from? I don't know the laws against PDA... but this sounds strange to me.

I live in Texas, where police brutality is the norm. Even if it's not violent, it's still unnecessary.
And the people don't care.

Not to worry louis, If you want to get married legally... The scottish gov are passing a bill right now to allow gay marriage. So just give me an invite Constantly looking for an excuse to get drunk lol.

^Good luck on that referendum, btw!

Ontopic:
To kind of bring ALL OF THIS back to where it began - Why Romney's faith should disqualify him of becoming President in any sane country:
http://www.patheos.c...bout-his-faith/

Stalin was not an atheist.

- He actually was in a seminary and just failed because he didn't show up for the finals.
- His official state position was that of a god-like person.
- He revived the Russian Orthodox Church in order to intensify patriotic support for the war effort.
- He was part of a council convened to elected a new church Patriarch.

-> No atheist, used the mythical aspect of religion(s) to establish a personality cult.

Which does not make him christian. Not at all actually.

My point is, that there are also other evil things in this world, and that there are good sides to christianity, or simply sides that are neither good nor evil. There are christian ideas that are also influencing you, because christianity historically is one of the essential roots of our culture. If youre just reducing that to 2000 years of mass murder and other nastyness, you won't be able to understand your own culture.

I'm stopping here, cause this has very little to do with the US election.

Well i want to stay in the union so.... no luck needed.

Wicksteed:
http://www.youtube.c...feature=related

Not accepting the premise that Christianity is worth retaining, because it is, amidst all of the institutionalized crimes against humanity, somewhat successful in distributing alms, does not prevent me from understanding the roots of the occidental culture.
Everybody is confronted with the task of understanding it everyday, regardless of your starting point, simply because you live in it.
What I am saying, however, is that with every added day, I further disapprove of this culture. I don't accept it as mine. And I am hopeful of that one day when mankind is able to leave behind the idea of religion, which in almost all cases is a synthesis of
- fear of death
- repressed sexuality
- strive for earthly power
and can finally reach the evolutionary level we might or might not be destined to achieve.

If we don't stone ourselves to death after we nuked each other out before, that is. After all, evolution will win anyway. Which I personally think is a wonderful reality.

Ok, after having watche Mr. Hitchens speech, and havin read your post, I see, that you notion of Religion (with christianity as a pars pro toto) is much wider than I thought. And I agree with your miscontent with that kind of religion. I'm just not as radical. I don't think a mass conversion to secularism (Hitchens) would bring any help at all, as all Revolutions in history have shown. If we want to reach that evolutionary level, youre speaking of, and I agree with you, that we need to reach it, then we need to start acting evolutionary. And that means not to throw away all we already have in our culture by not accepting it as ours, or to invest all our energy into finding out how incredibly bad our culture is, and trying to convince others of that belief, but to go from what we have, the good and the bad, and to constructively develop and cultivate the good parts.

No offense, gell?

None taken.

Getting the train back onto the rails:

Romney family buys voting machines through Bain Capital.
http://www.allvoices...ital-investment

You've got to be fucking kidding me.

I'd like to point out that Texas's cities are nearly all very liberal, as most cities are. Houston has a gay, female mayor. Dallas very nearly elected a gay mayor not long ago. Austin is one of the leftist cities I've ever visited in the states. Fort Worth, El Paso and San Antonio have a high mexican population and are all three are typically a bit left. Its a the rural areas and some suburbs.
http://www.texasinsi...ap2011SMALL.jpg

Montana isn't as aggressively religious as I thought it would be before I moved here. Then again, there are a few things to consider. First, it's so unanimous that it's practically just accepted that everyone is Christian here, and second, I live in one of the largest, most modern cities in the state (that also happens to be a college town). My girlfriend has a few friends with some pretty nutty families, though. Fire-and-brimstone types.

Apparently there was a preacher on campus a few days ago, but I didn't see him. I guess he got into arguments with a few students and left.

Do you understand the difference between Scientific Theory and theory? Because it does actually mean something else. I'm curious to know what these holes are in the big bang theory, though. Getting new scientific material admitted into the school curriculum via textbooks not only isn't easy, but takes quite a while.

I am not a scientist so I cannot argue against those who are experts in this field, but yes I know the difference from scientific theory (which is rigorously tested and peer-reviewed) and theory as conjecture.

Personally though, I can't help but wonder how something comes from nothing, and how scientists are able to prove through enormous amounts of speculation. It's not that there are 'holes' in the theory, it is just that nothing is proven conclusively (which is impossible in science anyway), and thus it is not impervious to revision and reanalysis.

Personally though, I can't help but wonder how something comes from nothing

So this applies to the big bang, but not God? I hereby expel this argument from the discussion.

So this applies to the big bang, but not God? I hereby expel this argument from the discussion.

I've never claimed to be Christian, and never have I claimed the theist's argument to be sound, so do your expelling elsewhere.

The question of how something comes from nothing exists for theists and atheists alike, and no one has answered this question. It defies logic, and therefore the theists rely on faith to explain this unanswerable question. For me, the big bang theory doesn't cut it. Do not dismiss my argument based on assumptions you made about words I've never spoken; that is fallacious and irresponsible.

I've never claimed to be Christian, and never have I claimed the theist's argument to be sound, so do your expelling elsewhere.

The question of how something comes from nothing exists for theists and atheists alike, and no one has answered this question. It defies logic, and therefore the theists rely on faith to explain this unanswerable question. For me, the big bang theory doesn't cut it. Do not dismiss my argument based on assumptions you made about words I've never spoken; that is fallacious and irresponsible.

Calm down, yo. You said that in the same sentence you discussed scientists making large speculations, so I drew a fairly reasonable assumption that you were using it as an argument against the big bang. Don't get the impression that I was attacking you personally, I just wanted to squash that straightaway. Until we discover the nature of why things exist, we obviously can't use that argument for either side. That's what I was getting at.

Apparently there was a preacher on campus a few days ago, but I didn't see him. I guess he got into arguments with a few students and left.

Every college campus ever has "street" preachers. Mainly because universities are full of fornicating, devil-worshiping, homosexual heathens.

Calm down, yo. You said that in the same sentence you discussed scientists making large speculations, so I drew a fairly reasonable assumption that you were using it as an argument against the big bang. Don't get the impression that I was attacking you personally, I just wanted to squash that straightaway. Until we discover the nature of why things exist, we obviously can't use that argument for either side. That's what I was getting at.

I AM using it as an argument against the big bang. It is based on the assumption that everything came from nothing. As for creationists, they don't have that problem because they think God has always existed. Their problem lies in trying to prove that assumption, which they can't.

MITT ROMNEY PERSONALLY OWNS THE ELECTION MACHINES

Its hard to argue that church and state are "separated" when every political discussion boils down to religion at some point.

Also, anyone seen that Romney owns voting machines?

I AM using it as an argument against the big bang. It is based on the assumption that everything came from nothing. As for creationists, they don't have that problem because they think God has always existed. Their problem lies in trying to prove that assumption, which they can't.

So to recap:
You don't know what started the universe. Therefore, you ignore the massive amounts of evidence that suggest that the big bang occurred and that matter can arise from energy in a vacuum. Therefore, the Big Bang Theory must be taught in schools with a wink and a smile, as if some dude tripping on shrooms came up with the fantastical idea and nobody has bothered to look into it since.

The word you're looking for, by the way, is 'hypothesis', not 'theory'. And there's a shit ton of evidence supporting this one.

And either way, you don't teach math in a literature course, and you don't teach religion in a science course. I don't know if this is what you're proposing, but "teaching the controvery" is a nice way of saying "I don't and don't want to understand science."

I AM using it as an argument against the big bang. It is based on the assumption that everything came from nothing. As for creationists, they don't have that problem because they think God has always existed. Their problem lies in trying to prove that assumption, which they can't.

But the idea that God always existed isn't based on the assumption that at least one thing came from nothing? If matter can't come from nothing, how can God just exist? Just because creationists can't prove why God just exists, it becomes an argument against the big bang?? I found your last sentence hard to understand, so I will be back in a bit to see if I misunderstood.