General Chat / NE 2012 U.S. Election discussion.

Politics sucks, but elections are kidna fun. These debates are the best part aside form the actual election day which is fun to watch, actually a lot like a sporting even with each guy winning certain states. Thing is they are always pretty much two guys saying that the other is not telling the truth or lying.

Fact is nothing really gets done in the US because we switch gears so much. Since Bush Sr. it's been D/D/R/R/D and each time the party changes most polices change. I am not a huge fan of any political party, but I like what the Democrats say they'll do, so I'll be voting for Obama again and whoever runs in 2016 and so on.

How the hell was Romney the best choice for the Republican party? Pathetic...

I envy Americans.
It must be so damn easy to only vote between two parties

"MFG"

^Yeah but it's essentially like that here in UK. Labour or Conservative. Voting for any other party is basically a redundant vote.

Yes there are the other 'larger' parties like Lib Dem and Green, but it will always be either Labour or the Tories. Lib Dems were rising in popularity, but they've totally fucked that up now.

How the hell was Romney the best choice for the Republican party? Pathetic...

Between Newt Gingrich and Rick Santorum... is it really any surprise? Romney's better than either of them (Rick Santorum's a fucking lunatic), but that's not saying much at all. He hasn't proven to be as bigoted and anti-social progressiveness as his party platform wants to be, which is a start. My only fear with the conservative party coming to power, would be if somehow the courts and congress had the same tendency, and separation of church and state laws started being called into question. That's a massive fucking No-No, and it feels like it's at the top of the conservative party platform. If the president were able to truly impact the economy, I'd more heavily consider Romney because of his past experience in business. But Dr_Dude is right, the president can't really do anything. The only way the economy can even work anymore is to rack up more debt, no matter what you do. The only thing that's been successfully cut in the last few years was... NASA. Which was already a fraction of the budget anyway.

J.K. Rowling visited the Daily Show the other day and made a rather interesting suggestion.
She said the US should have a symbolic royal family that officially constitutes the head of state, in order for the position of the President (where the real power still would be) to be publically downsized from the extreme 24/7 media spectacle it has become. Kind of a royal buffer, so to say.

That could be a good idea, but I'm not sure more positions is really the answer. I just wish it could ever be more than "the moderate liberal," "the moderate conservative," and "that other guy that has no chance."

Well, why would the WHOLE industry around that model want to change a running, money-making system, though?

At least it's more of a choice than 'the moderate socialist', 'the moderate socialist' and 'that other moderate socialist that has no chance' which we have in Britain.

It sounds like a stupid idea to me. Adds more showbizz to a country that has enouch showbizz already. A royal family or a modern equivalent would feel forced and fake to everyone and I doubt that it'll be very effective. A lot of hassle with not a real change in return. There's a problem and this is not a solution, but a distraction. If you're going to reform the political system, it's most probably wiser to get the proportional representation thing going. You need the support from the sitting government of course and I don't think there are enough integer men in Washington to achieve such a change. The only solutions that remain:
- disbanding of the United States of America. Fresh start for all states.
- more realistic: a coup of integer men.

It's not like it's that bad over here... We just argue a bit every 4 years and occasionally cant get shit done between then.

Uhm... no you can't?

Between Newt Gingrich and Rick Santorum... is it really any surprise? Romney's better than either of them (Rick Santorum's a fucking lunatic), but that's not saying much at all. He hasn't proven to be as bigoted and anti-social progressiveness as his party platform wants to be, which is a start. My only fear with the conservative party coming to power, would be if somehow the courts and congress had the same tendency, and separation of church and state laws started being called into question. That's a massive fucking No-No, and it feels like it's at the top of the conservative party platform. If the president were able to truly impact the economy, I'd more heavily consider Romney because of his past experience in business. But Dr_Dude is right, the president can't really do anything. The only way the economy can even work anymore is to rack up more debt, no matter what you do. The only thing that's been successfully cut in the last few years was... NASA. Which was already a fraction of the budget anyway.

It's too bad Jon Huntsman didn't make in far in the primaries, he would have been a decent choice.

I envy Americans.
It must be so damn easy to only vote between two parties

"MFG"

^Yeah but it's essentially like that here in UK. Labour or Conservative. Voting for any other party is basically a redundant vote.

Yes there are the other 'larger' parties like Lib Dem and Green, but it will always be either Labour or the Tories. Lib Dems were rising in popularity, but they've totally fucked that up now.

See, but there are actually more than two parties. They just collude so that nobody else gets allowed into the debates. The Green Party representative was actually arrested and prevented from even being allowed into the building last night, and they did the same to Ralph Nader a few years ago. The issue is 1. Only the two parties are given lip service in the media and the ballot box, so people are unaware of the rest, and 2. the wide standing belief that a vote towards anyone else is a wasted vote, despite the fact that almost everyone is disillusioned with the current regime and the two party system, and if everyone voted their conscience, then no vote would be wasted.

But hey, if Romney or Obama truly are the people that best represent you, then vote for them. But if you're of the wasted vote mentality, or you're voting for one only because he's not the other, then you are the problem, and fuck you. If you don't vote for the person that truly represents you, you have no one to blame but yourself when the government doesn't represent you either.

For your reading pleasure:15 third party candidates you should probably research.

It's kind of like the prisoner's dillema isn't it? Society is virtually unable to organise the collective, to break the voting habits for everyone's benefit. No collective action, so everyone plays safe and egoist.

Not a judgement.

But hey, if Romney or Obama truly are the people that best represent you, then vote for them. But if you're of the wasted vote mentality, or you're voting for one only because he's not the other, then you are the problem, and fuck you. If you don't vote for the person that truly represents you, you have no one to blame but yourself when the government doesn't represent you either.


Shit, this mentality is why johnson has no chance. I sucks really, for people like me who dont care for either president. Anyways, that's why im libertarian, because i dont like the social stances of the republicans


@liam

The best thing would be to disband parties IMO.


Check out this link: http://www.isidewith.com

But hey, if Romney or Obama truly are the people that best represent you, then vote for them. But if you're of the wasted vote mentality, or you're voting for one only because he's not the other, then you are the problem, and fuck you. If you don't vote for the person that truly represents you, you have no one to blame but yourself when the government doesn't represent you either.

That's bullshit. No one is really represented well if there are only two parties. A lucky few. The system is the problem. You must be blind to not see that. Don't blame the people.

Who'd you vote for if there were two idiots? Do you risk that the biggest idiot wins? No. You end up screwed anyway, so you vote for the least bad guy. Fuck the people who have to deal with this, yeah.

Shit, this mentality is why johnson has no chance.

No, it's because Johnson is an idiot. Not as bad as Romney, but still an idiot. Personally I think Obama is quite okay, by the way. Since left in the US is like centre in the Netherlands, and I vote centre, I could vote for him actually if he were a politician here. Though he'd have to compete with Pechtold who I like a lot. Does this forum care? No. I'll shut up.

Go Obama!

liam, MA said that :S

Your quote fail. But my point still stands.

But Liam, the problem in America is that their president will always be the shiniest of two turds if people keep thinking like that.

MA, should stand up and fight for a new regime.