General Chat / NE 2012 U.S. Election discussion.

By "imaginary time", I think a better word would be "theoretical time".
What is your point and how is this relevant in the context of the upcoming US election?

Imaginary time was how Hawking described it, but I agree, I think theoretical time is a better term to describe this. Thanks for clarifying that point!

I had to go back a page to see what led us to this tangent as well. I think it was when Casimir brought up teaching science vs. religion in the classroom, and I made a claim about the big bang theory not being completely infallible. It has no relation to the election so yeah we are definitely off topic here! I mainly made that statement because many people view the big bang theory as an end-all argument and they basically claim it is verifiable fact, so no other theory can exists. In school, when I was taught the big bang theory, there was no emphasis on the fact that it is still a scientific theory... it was taught as if "this is the way the world was made, no questions", and I found that upsetting because even though I am not a theist, I know people who are and who don't believe this and had it forced upon them in an uncompromising way.

Louis: The constitution separates religion from state. However, US society has reached a stage SO deceitful that no presidential candidate will be elected EVER without emphazising his or her personal faith and how strongly it would affect their decisions in office. Therefore, it is not only desirable, but also everybody's duty to challenge the self-proclaimed morality of ANY religious group.

This is why we got into a religious discussion. The question whether religious beliefs qualify someone to be in control of the red button.

I must say that I am a little worried our Navy has fewer horses and bayonets now than in the past *shakes head*

Thought I'd drop by...

Gary Johnson>Obama>Romney

Things that need to change in order for America to move forward:
1. Gay Marriage
2. Legalize Marijuana
3. Bring ALL of the troops home
4. Focus on education
5. Remove social security
6. Less focus on special interests

My issue with gay marriage is, why does it have to be legal across the country? Why cant the states decide for themselves as they do now? Same goes for Marijuana.

^Or how about we not bar marriages from people due purely on their sexual orientation, period? Morally, it only clashes with some religious views, which shouldn't be inflicted as a law in any way whatsoever, because, you know, that whole "separation of church and state" thing that we should be practicing.

Horses and Bayonetts...
Opinions on the debate: (if anyone watched)

"Today, the USN enjoys a "17 Navy standard"; that is, the total tonnage of Uncle Sam's fleet is equal to the combined total tonnage of the next 17 smaller navies. "
http://www.strategyp...s/20050922.aspx

THE issue to me with that, is that a massive Navy does just about nothing to stop terrorist type attacks. Its antiquated, works well in a cold war, but not against today's threats.

I have missed every single debate so far.

I learned about this one about five minutes before it was over, and tuned in just as Romney was finishing his closing statement. The general gist I'm getting is Romney is still contradicting himself left and right whilst inventing numbers with which to blast Obama.

This is becoming as bad as the "You didn't build that" campaign. It's obvious he meant something else but everyone keeps bringing it up. Get over it.

lol jeez man. i was just kidding, but you're right, i guess it's time for me to grow up.

Phillip Defranco and Gov. Gary Johnson talking live about the debate
http://www.youtube.c...feature=g-all-c

Thought I'd drop by...

Gary Johnson>Obama>Romney

Things that need to change in order for America to move forward:
1. Gay Marriage
2. Legalize Marijuana
3. Bring ALL of the troops home
4. Focus on education
5. Remove social security
6. Less focus on special interests

1. Agree that I think it's important, but the absolute top thing that's holding the country back? No.
2. Look, you stoners have a point. The laws are pretty stupid and cost people money. But you're never going to win simply because you just want to smoke in public and not because of whatever other reason you're coming up with. Again, this is your second priority? We really shouldn't take seriously any candidate that thinks this is the second biggest issue.
3. No arguments from me, but *skip to my reply below to Austin*
4. Okay.
5. ...No. Absolutely not. The program funds itself, and only by shitty and misleading accounting does it look like it draws on our income taxes. It is not contributing to the debt, and serves a very good problem among the retired.
6. I still don't understand how the Republicans framed such a small portion of the budget as such a bad thing. One of those fancy drone strikes costs more than the $300mil they gave to NPR last year. I understand the argument that cuts need to be made, but starting at special interest groups is the most arbitrary spot ever, and smacks of being a symbolic cut to not make them elsewhere.

"Today, the USN enjoys a "17 Navy standard"; that is, the total tonnage of Uncle Sam's fleet is equal to the combined total tonnage of the next 17 smaller navies. "
http://www.strategyp...s/20050922.aspx

THE issue to me with that, is that a massive Navy does just about nothing to stop terrorist type attacks. Its antiquated, works well in a cold war, but not against today's threats.

The US uses the threat of military action to strengthen their position in trade agreements. The president talked about his recent "pivot" to strengthen the US's military presence in SE Asia. It doesn't take an outward threat when the US Navy is parked right off your coast.

And please forget about terrorists. Please. Militaries are for fighting wars, not for strip searching people at the airport.

1. Agree that I think it's important, but the absolute top thing that's holding the country back? No.
2. Look, you stoners have a point. The laws are pretty stupid and cost people money. But you're never going to win simply because you just want to smoke in public and not because of whatever other reason you're coming up with. Again, this is your second priority? We really shouldn't take seriously any candidate that thinks this is the second biggest issue.
3. No arguments from me, but *skip to my reply below to Austin*
4. Okay.
5. ...No. Absolutely not. The program funds itself, and only by shitty and misleading accounting does it look like it draws on our income taxes. It is not contributing to the debt, and serves a very good problem among the retired.
6. I still don't understand how the Republicans framed such a small portion of the budget as such a bad thing. One of those fancy drone strikes costs more than the $300mil they gave to NPR last year. I understand the argument that cuts need to be made, but starting at special interest groups is the most arbitrary spot ever, and smacks of being a symbolic cut to not make them elsewhere.

Just a few things:
I wasn't ranking any of these. I was just listing 6 things in no order, that are important in my eyes.

I don't give a shit about smoking in public. I wrote a paper on legalization last year and I've watched documentaries a lot recently about the drug war. I don't feel like writing it out myself, so I'm going to use some info from other sites:

"Despite our best efforts at enforcement, education and interdiction, people continue to use and abuse illegal drugs.
The parallels between drug policy today and Prohibition in the 1920’s are obvious, as are the lessons our nation learned. Prohibition was repealed because it made matters worse. Today, no one is trying to sell our kids bathtub gin in the schoolyard and micro-breweries aren’t protecting their turf with machine guns. It’s time to apply that thinking to marijuana. By making it a legal, regulated product, availability can be restricted, under-age use curtailed, enforcement/court/incarceration costs reduced, and the profit removed from a massive underground and criminal economy.
By managing marijuana like alcohol and tobacco – regulating, taxing and enforcing its lawful use – America will be better off. The billions saved on marijuana interdiction, along with the billions captured as legal revenue, can be redirected against the individuals committing real crimes against society."

"OVER A MILLION AND A HALF AMERICANS were arrested last year on drug charges, and nearly 40% of those arrests were for marijuana possession alone. Does this make sense?"

Also, as far as I understand, I'm paying into social security that I will never get in the future.

For special interests, it's definitely not at the top of my priorities, I just believe their should be less focus on them.

MA - I'd love to hear your thoughts on special interests, social security, gun laws, and the death penalty.

I don't give a shit about smoking in public. I wrote a paper on legalization last year and I've watched documentaries a lot recently about the drug war. I don't feel like writing it out myself, so I'm going to use some info from other sites:

"Despite our best efforts at enforcement, education and interdiction, people continue to use and abuse illegal drugs.
The parallels between drug policy today and Prohibition in the 1920’s are obvious, as are the lessons our nation learned. Prohibition was repealed because it made matters worse. Today, no one is trying to sell our kids bathtub gin in the schoolyard and micro-breweries aren’t protecting their turf with machine guns. It’s time to apply that thinking to marijuana. By making it a legal, regulated product, availability can be restricted, under-age use curtailed, enforcement/court/incarceration costs reduced, and the profit removed from a massive underground and criminal economy.
By managing marijuana like alcohol and tobacco – regulating, taxing and enforcing its lawful use – America will be better off. The billions saved on marijuana interdiction, along with the billions captured as legal revenue, can be redirected against the individuals committing real crimes against society."

"OVER A MILLION AND A HALF AMERICANS were arrested last year on drug charges, and nearly 40% of those arrests were for marijuana possession alone. Does this make sense?"

I completely agree on this point. Whether or not smoking in public is allowed, we need to STOP arresting people for marijuana possession. It is unnecessarily taxing on our penitentiary system and it is a pretty stupid thing to be arresting people for. Regulation would solve a lot of the current problems with the drug war since marijuana is so widely used nowadays. There are so many benefits from regulation that would outweigh the cons of legalization (if there are any...).

Again, this is your second priority?

you're right, MA. it should be the number one priority.


don't get me wrong, i'm no politician but i feel doing these few things will turn our country around. no particular order.

1) legalize marijuana/hemp, this could literally create these 'millions of jobs' current politicians are promising. after a while, the whole reefer madness disease will be cured, and we can finally agree as a nation that marijuana is safer than alcohol. marijuana specialty shops will show up and attitudes will change. hemp could become the future of everything and we, the US, can re-revolutionize the hemp industry and lead the world. hemp can literally doing almost anything and everything. i won't even begin to describe all it can do, look it up.

and yes, this is a HUGE deal. over 800,000 people a year are arrested and thrown in jail for possessing a damn weed... it's a fucking plant people. it makes you happy. it makes you sleepy. if you smoke it, continue to smoke it. if you don't, then don't, but who the fuck are you to take a drink of your beer and tell somebody they can't smoke a joint after work to relax. just because it is legal doesn't mean you have to smoke it. think about it, every fucking day, there are military style raids into peoples homes, scaring the shit outta their kids, shooting pets, and destroying families for a damn plant. now this guy has a criminal record and can't get a job when he gets out. he goes home and his kids now have no idea who he is. think about how this man feels. all for possessing a plant. oh, so maybe he was selling the plant? so the shit what. the guy down at the gas station sells more dangerous drugs every day.

i could rant about this shit all day but you get the gist of it. it's wrong.

2) stop all the wars. yes, every one of them. they do nothing but grow our debt. let's focus on how we seem to be losing our own damn democracy and freedoms, and focus on growing our own country, rather than destroying others because they don't have democracy. get the fuck outta here with that operation freedom bullshit. not meaning to offend anybody here, but that is not why we are there. fuck what they have. do you really think that killing some random terrorist in the mountains of afghanistan is protecting our freedom? bullshit.

we continue to throw billions every year into making sure that foreign countries, halfway around the world have democracy... while we are quickly losing our own. seriously? you just know that shit ain't true.

3) ban future businesses from outsourcing jobs to foreign countries and introduce a tax hike to current business who do so. again, i'm not a business expert and this is a tricky one i'm sure. i do believe something needs to be done here, but i don't know enough so i can't go into detail.

our government uses products made in china to build our bridges. how does that make you feel? let me put it this way... imagine getting pulled over for going 40 in a 35... looking in your rear view and seeing a fucking toyota emblem on the front of the cruiser. "what the fuck" is right.


i had a couple more but there are 3 huge ones. fuck the rest.




now, where's my beer.




EDIT: and get rid the the electoral college. more bullshit.

My issue with gay marriage is, why does it have to be legal across the country? Why cant the states decide for themselves as they do now?

Robbie pretty much summed it up... even asking this question is suspect for me. But it makes sense since you're from Texas...

I support marriage equality and legalizing marijuana. The rest of my state doesn't. They may not be "right", but that is one of the tricky parts of government, to enforce equality, even if the majority might not prefer it. But fuck, this state would probably go back to jim crow laws if it could.

but that is one of the tricky parts of government, to enforce equality, even if the majority might not prefer it.

the government's job is not to enforce equality. they enforce anything that benefits them and nothing else. take, for example, that pink slime substance that schools around the nation served in their meats. people wanted government to step in and ban the shit... well they didn't. now, wouldn't banning the stuff be in our best interests? yea, it would, but it doesn't put money in the governemnt's pockets so they don't give a shit.

So what does government have to gain from either keeping it banned or legalizing it?
I'd also say that it should be there job to promote equality.

it's already legal. they can't re-legalize it. the only thing they can do would be to ban it, but it doesn't deepen their pockets. i don't know all the ins and outs but the government runs like a business and making it illegal wouldn't benefit their business, so why bother?


but good question... for them. not me.