General Chat / NE 2012 U.S. Election discussion.

Okay I'll get serious here.
If Romney wins, where should I move? Netherlands? Sweden? Any other suggestions?

Forget Holland ,it's getting really shit here too.

Forget Holland ,it's getting really shit here too.

Don't listen to Arjan, our momentarily neo-liberal country will stay welcoming and an interesting alternative for the next couple of years to come. I actually think we're at a better place than we were 10 years ago here.


No but on a serious note Arjan, why? Because our social system is going to be less gigantic? That's happening all over the world, it's what happens with a global crisis. We can blame our country/politicians for it, but really it's a problem that we've created with áll capitalist countries and áll levels of society. (so not only the ''1%'', there are for example so many people that got into debt by buying cars, phones, clothing etc that they simply couldn't afford. Imho there was a wrong feeling of invulnerability if it came down to home economics all over the western world... )

Okay guys, I'm sorry. It was a bad idea getting into an arguement about legalization on nedesigns.com

Also, wouldn't it be more accurate to call them greedy .1% pigs. Most people that are actually in the top 1% are typically educated professionals (think doctors, lawyers, ect.) so it would make more sense for them to be liberal. Usually the top 10%-20%ers are repulicans though with an average income of $100,000+. Although many people think of the extremely rich as staunch conservatives, quite a few billionares are democrats.

Education may be a top priority, but the overall culture will affect the minds of most Americans. In other words, the feeling of community is long dead and will probably remain so until people are hit hard by the oil crisis. Hopefully people will stop destroying vital farmland, ravaging cities, and fattening the wallet of an idiot to live a god-awful lifestyle that is common among most suburbanites.

The problem of this country is not me, nor any one individual. It is all the hatred being spewn by complete asses that are stuck in the 1200s. It is the complete ignorance of the fact that we all live like sheep in an awful environment with no harmony whatsoever. It is the problem in which we only take action when we are placed at the verge of a catastrophie. It is the death of community feel, moral values, and individuality that has turned us into the T.V. controlled slobs we are today.

Go ahead and turn this into a black and white arguement. You simply cannot solve an issue by legalizing or banning something completely, so quit acting like I am advocating it when my intentions are the opposite. People are short-sighted and unaware of the mundane. We are herd animals and unless we can ALL accept the fact that we have dug ourselves into a hole (not just economically but culturally and morally as well), our futures will look bleak.

It's not a bad idea to debate about legalization if you bring your facts. You are only stating ignorant statements that don't really support your argument so of course you're going to get torn apart.

Many people think the top 1% are staunch conservatives because most of the 1% ARE staunch conservatives who are looking out for nothing but their own money. Romney made this clear in his 47% statement (which is COMPLETELY unfounded, given that most of that 47% is made up of either the elderly that are retired, children/students, and really poor people that work 3-4 part time jobs). When I think educate professionals, yes, that include doctors and lawyers, but it also includes bankers and wall st... do you remember who got us into this huge economic mess with the housing bubble?

So how do you propose we fix this lack of community? By cutting education spending? We need to educate ourselves on the issues before making blatantly false and ignorant statements and acting like we know what we are talking about. EDUCATION IS IMPORTANT; it is the answer to digging ourselves out of the philistine future you speak of.



P.S. And I disagree, you can totally solve an issue with banning/legalizing something, but it all depends on the issue because each issue presents different sets of problems and work in different contexts; some you can fix, others you cannot.

For example, you can mitigate a lot of the damage from the war on drugs if marijuana was legalized. However, you will not lower the rate of abortions if abortions were banned. Statistically, it actually becomes even more dangerous and more deaths are associated with abortions in countries where it is illegal vs. countries where it is legal!

Don't listen to Arjan, our momentarily neo-liberal country will stay welcoming and an interesting alternative for the next couple of years to come. I actually think we're at a better place than we were 10 years ago here.


No but on a serious note Arjan, why? Because our social system is going to be less gigantic? That's happening all over the world, it's what happens with a global crisis. We can blame our country/politicians for it, but really it's a problem that we've created with áll capitalist countries and áll levels of society. (so not only the ''1%'', there are for example so many people that got into debt by buying cars, phones, clothing etc that they simply couldn't afford. Imho there was a wrong feeling of invulnerability if it came down to home economics all over the western world... )

I didn't loan money to buy the things i've got, i'm oldfashioned ,so save money first and buy something when you can afford it.
I also didn't get rich from stuffing my pockets (bankers ,government etc.).
But i AM paying for these huge selfish acts.

The crisis cost me my job ,wich was real important to me.
I'm partly disabled ,so now i can't find a new job ,because nobody wants me.
At the moment i'm learning java (just started) ,because i have to find a way to improve my chances on the labor market ,otherwise no kids ,no future and no happiness.
My financial situation is becoming worse and worse.
I'm starting to get depressed by it.

I don't know how your situation is Ruben ,but now you've heard mine.

So how do you propose we fix this lack of community? By cutting education spending? We need to educate ourselves on the issues before making blatantly false and ignorant statements and acting like we know what we are talking about. EDUCATION IS IMPORTANT; it is the answer to digging ourselves out of the philistine future you speak of.

I do not disagree about the importance of education. I was going in a different direction about the lack of a community. Suburban sprawl is among the greatest of issues in this country, yet it is rarely discussed. Small business needs to be encouraged, cities need to be strengthened, and transportation needs to be more efficient, friendly, and green.

Now education, as imporant as it is, can be overpowered by one's environments. The worst schools always recieve a ton of funding just as many top performing schools are having to make serious cutbacks. A cold depressing and monotonous environment, and trash culture can create an immense impact and change the way we think without even noticing.

i believe that by cutting every government agency / dept's spending would force them in turn to be more efficient.

yeah underpaid employees are always more efficient

Or when you make one dude try to do the job of three people. That's when you get the kinds of slip-ups everyone blames beauracracies for.

i believe that by cutting every government agency / dept's spending would force them in turn to be more efficient.

Your belief shows a lack of understanding of government agencies. Not all are created equal.

I work for child protective services agency. Our funding comes through the Department of Public Welfare (part of the discretionary spending, usually about 10% of the federal budget). If you cut our budget any more, the quality of service will be directly impacted. Lay offs, weakening of enforcement of certain types of abuse, outsourcing to unreliable services, hiring freezes.

My friend works for a private defense corporation. His funding comes through the Department of Defense (depending on where you get your numbers, anywhere from 30-50% of the federal budget). He gets paid to take vacations around the world in between gun shows and "inspecting" bases.

Another great source of fun is when budgets are cut to promote efficiency, and all of the agencies play clever accounting tricks to make up the losses. Outsourcing is the best, I think. The government pays the same amount or slightly less to a private company, which generally provide a worse service, and then even though the new private company is run on tax dollars, there is no accountability to the government and tax payers and absolutely no oversight (besides having their funding withdrawn). Great examples of this one would be the for-profit prison system. And awesome example from my career would be when you cut our budget so we're forced to outsource labor to a private contractor that doesn't do their job, and then the kid dies. Or for more fun, how about you cut our budget so we have to lay off mobile therapists. Then the child goes on government funded Medical Assistance (because private companies rarely pay for mental health treatment, especially if you've already been diagnosed) to go to a private therapist, against, with no government oversight on how that service is provided. You, the tax payer, is getting charged the same money, just in a different place.

You want to make an argument that services need to be streamlined? I'm all ears. But you're misguided if you think it's the local Welfare office that's draining your bank account. Most of the budget goes towards defense, and a lot of that is cleverly hidden outside of the the actual Dept. of Defense funding stream (The funding for our nuclear weapons comes from the Dept. of Energy's funding). Last I checked, Romney wants to increase defense spending, and he tried to bully Obama into admitting that keeping the defense budget the same was putting the country at risk. I'm going to go ahead and say that he's not going to do much about it either...

of course ma that the most wasteful departments should face the harshest of cuts

the defense spending is crazy, i mean, we spend more on it than medicare i believe

From what I've heard, we will end up spending nearly a trillion dollars on defense next year but only 64 billion on education. It's no wonder that much of the world hates us.

The rest of the world's opinion of the United States does not have a whole lot to do with our test scores.

of course ma that the most wasteful departments should face the harshest of cuts

the defense spending is crazy, i mean, we spend more on it than medicare i believe

Google is fun and easy to use:

http://dhhs.gov/asfr...dgetinbrief.pdf
51% of ~$911 billion.

http://www.defense.g...releaseid=13281
Defense budget: $708 billion

But don't forget about Homeland Security...
http://www.dhs.gov/x..._bib_fy2011.pdf
Another $56 billion

but, i dont want this race to be dictated by facts

+1.

I had a long discussion with someone today who is only voting for Obama because the thought of Romney potentially nominating 4 Supreme Court justices in this term scared her beyond belief with regards to common law, women's reproductive rights, and education. The thought of having a firmly conservative and regressive Court for the rest of my lifetime would be one that would cause more protests than Occupy could ever dream of.

This thought, MA, scares me more than anything else that could otherwise result from this election.

how about the DEA's $2.4 billion budget. $2.4 billion to fight our own people. sickening.






yes, i'm still talking about this. and interesting stuff, MA.

@Arjan: Very sad to hear, but I still don't see how you should blame the country for this? Your employer? Maybe, because he might not've been careful enough before the crisis, resulting in problems during. Possible new employers? Possibly, if you're good at what you do and they don't want to see it. But the Netherlands, so it's political system? They have no particular blame in this... it's a global crisis. Sad as it may be.

My situation? I'm a student so go figure. XD But I dó see that it's necessary, and I don't blame one specific group. Instead I blame a combination of the financial top taking major risks, governments allowing major risks, consumers behaving like they're all the queen of England, even if that's at a minimum wage.

It's easy to blame one group, it's harder to admit that the problem is in all layers of society, including my own.

how about the DEA's $2.4 billion budget. $2.4 billion to fight our own people. sickening.

yes, i'm still talking about this. and interesting stuff, MA.

If you're talking money, I think you'd have better luck showing the prison system's budget. Remember that they get food, clothing, medical care, mental health care, drug and alcohol treatment, in addition to the salaries of staff, guards, etc.

Couldn't find a legit source, but the first entry on google said $6.9 billion.

Edit: ...and that figure I just quoted might only be the budget for federal prisons, not including state/county prisons. I'm not sure how that number is broken down.

Ruben ,i was working at the army as a civilian (maintenance ,distribition etc.).
A lot of (new) employees had to go because of the crisis and i was one of them...
I don't blame the politics ,they can only do what they think works best.
But for me it meant that i'm shuffled outside the labormarket for now because of my partial dissability. There are so many young and fully healthy people looking for work ,that i've become invisible...

So yeah ,i'm a victim of the crisis ,but i'll endure just like weeds do.

I'm noticeably better at RCT when being under the influence. I'm not gonna let the government bar me from building some nice stuff ;P