General Chat / St. Louis Cardinals

Discuss.

best franchise in all of baseball.





love my cards.

Gotta love my Cardinals! Wainwright down 6-0 after 3 innings...I was out to eat with a bunch of friends....basically gave up all hope. Then we came back to my house, and had many drinks while we slowly watched the cards come back. I'm still numb to it, but was sure jumping up and down and being loud and obnoxious when we tied it up ...let alone took the lead 9-7 in the ninth. Go Cards!

In my opinion, every LDS series ended up with the worse case scenario. Finally a major chance to get some new blood in the title mix and instead we're left with 3 recent champions and a high payroll team. I doubt I'll even watch any more baseball this year.

I was rooting for Cardinals (naturally--hometown team and I even went to Freese's rival high school). However, they were the only one of my favorites to advance. I expected the O's to lose, but I thought A's were gonna power through and never would have dreamed of the Reds losing three straight at home.

I have to agree, RMM, best franchise in all of baseball. They never quit.

I do have to say I'm sad the Nats are out, though. Aside from the Cards and the A's, they were probably my favorite team in any of the four DS's. Would have been rooting for them in the NLCS if they advanced.

best franchise in all of baseball.

Let's not get ahead of ourselves. Last night's game was one of the best I've seen, but they had the worst regular season record of any team to make the playoffs and their pitching isn't the most notable of any playoff team. That said, I would have said the same thing last year but they won it in the end.

Well, it was supposed to be hockey season.

RIP 2012-2013 NHL season..

Let's not get ahead of ourselves.

name a better one.

The Cardinals regular season record doesn't reflect their skill level. It's funny cause I've agreed with this statement for several teams in the past few years (including the Cards this and last years, as well as the 2012 Dodgers). It's sad that a regular 162 game season doesn't perfectly accurately predict the best teams , but I find it to be true. Looking at the Cardinals' offense, it's clear we have a WS-caliber offense. Our defense should theoretically be solid--our weaknesses being the corner outfielders, who don't have quite as much range as we would like--yet they make up for it with their bats easily. Our pitching has a fantastic blend of seasoned veterans such as Waino, Carp, and Lohse and a number of young, stunningly good arms (Miller, Rosenthal, Browning, Freeman to name a few). Sure, we have a few weak spots. Rzep has not been as good this year as we needed, and Lynn struggled, to name a couple examples. But Lynn is obviously an amazing pitcher as an 18 game winner, and that's when he came into the season expecting a spot in the pen at most. He's going to be great in a couple years.

Then on top of all that, we have people like Furcal and Berkman who are unfortunately injured. Our team SHOULD have done much, much better than they did. I think part of this might be because of Matheny--love him to death, but he is a first year manager and as such will make mistakes. He's been surprisingly good for a rookie, though, and I'm excited to have him with us for years to come. Another obstacle has been injuries and slumps that have been very poorly timed. Finally, I would even argue that we didn't win during the regular season because we didn't need to. The Cardinals are historically a franchise that come up in the clutch. We play well when we need to, hence why we tend to thrive in the postseason and why we've been able to repeat what one could only label a miracle--if it weren't for the fact that we, well, did it twice.

I will readily admit to my bias. Cardinals are my team. But I recognize good teams when I see them. Nats were amazing, Reds were pretty damn good, Dodgers are fantastic, Yankees, Rangers, etc. Despite this I still firmly believe that whether we win the WS this year or not, our team was a competitor for best team in the MLB.

If I had to rank right now, I would say top five teams (in no order) this year were: Nationals, Yankees, Cardinals, Reds, Rangers. Hard to take Dodgers, Braves, etc. out of that, too.

Btw, this topic is now about this season/postseason in general. What a crazy Game 1 of the ALCS! Ibanez is sooo clutch, and I hope Jeter is okay. That's devastating. Yankees probably wish they had just lost in the 9th now, at least they'd have Jeter still...

^this I can mostly agree with. The Cardinals have the weak spots but they are a solid team that is capable of winning a World Series title again. But you have teams like the Yankees (even more dangerous when half the offense is performing mediocre but the pitching is great) and the Tigers (Cabrera, Fielder, Verlander, so much more) who pose a threat to their WS potential (plus the Giants to their NLCS title).

name a better one.

Well, of the 3 other teams left, I can name 3. But, again, it comes down to who is playing well lately and who is not. And the Cardinals fit the former. I would normaly say the Yankees but losing Jeter last night killed us. Not having him in the lead-off spot (I think a .320 postseason career avg is decent) greatly hurts the order. Plus, not having the leader of the infield for 99% of your regular season games affects the defense. Still, it's a good team that, when Cano, Tex, Granderson, etc. got hot, cannot and will not be touched nor compared to any other team. We've only survived from Ibanez and Ichiro plus great starting pitching. If you don't believe that, the Tigers have the MVP batting next to one of the most dangerous hitters in the game, great defense, and better pitching. And the Giants are just a good team that I would just barely put ahead of the Cards. No offense to the Cardinals, but it is a miracle they have gotten this far, beating the Nationals and Braves.

Meh, I disagree that Tigers and Giants are better than the Cardinals. Giants really only have Posey, Cabrera (to an extent), and Pagan/Scutaro. The rest of their players are all not so amazing. Looking at their lineup, I'm a bit confused as to how they beat the Dodgers for the NL West honestly. And the Tigers are in a similar situation. I think the only reason they're here is cause the AL Central is the weakest division, then they got hot near the end. I understand the NL Central is a weak division too, but it should be stronger with the Astros leaving, and even as it was, we still had the Reds and the first-half of the season Pirates to contend with. The Brewers should be better too.

Yankees, yes. I will admit the Yankees are a better team looking at the players and whatnot. However, with Jeter's injury last night and the postseason collapse of some of their players, I'm starting to doubt their chances against the Tigers right now.

Cardinals are a better team than the Braves, and although I would say the Nats could be a better team than the Cards, they didn't play like it when it mattered, clearly. We outscored them 32-16 that series. If you want to be labeled the better team, gotta play like it when it matters.

Ok, I will give you the Giants, though they made some good acquisitions but were largely supported by Melky's unbelievable year on roids. Yeah, their not too great after looking at some of their guys numbers. But the Tigers, while they are in a bad division, still have two of the most dangerous bats in the game, a great rotation, and the potential to compete.
As for the Yanks, I will abstain from saying anything until tonight. When the players are hot, like the last 10 games of the season and all through July, no one can beat them.
The Nationals are better but it comes down to who is on a streak coming into the playoffs and that would go to the Cardinals. That's why the Dodgers, Rays, etc. are not in the playoffs. I still don't think they can win it all. Coming so close to elimination twice is just too much, especially when they face a better opponent (not the Giants, but the Tigers or Yankees).

Before I forget, I've decided to name all of my children Raul Ibanez.

Hey, we faced a better opponent last year--the Rangers, and the Phillies--and beat them both. Also, keep in mind that even though we barely pulled out a win against the Nats in the NLDS, we blew them out two wins, and the two losses we had in Games 1 and 4 were one run differentials and could have gone either way. We very well could have swept the Nats if we hit better with RISP in Game 1.

And that's a perfectly reasonable move. Raul Ibanez is pretty much the definition of clutch, holy shit.

my fault, i should have been clearer.


at least by my experience, when i hear the term 'franchise', i think of the entire existence of the team and what they've accomplished. when i hear the term 'best team', i usually think of the current state of the team, the era of a certain player or certain team core.



now with that said, i know a lot of people will call me crazy and say that the yankees are the 'best franchise' of all time, but i beg to differ. i like teams that earn championships, rather than teams that buy them.


sidenote; i feel i use '' too much so i thought i'd go with the italics at the end there. yea, i live life on the edge.

^ I also tend to think of that. The Cardinals are historically the best franchise in America in my opinion--the most storied, the most tight-knit fanbase, etc. etc. That said, I would still argue that we are a top team this year and have potential to win the WS.

I know I'm biased, I'll readily admit that again. But I still believe it to be true from as objective a standpoint as I can muster.

now with that said, i know a lot of people will call me crazy and say that the yankees are the 'best franchise' of all time, but i beg to differ. i like teams that earn championships, rather than teams that buy them.

I see where you're coming from, but the Yankees don't "buy" all their WS. Most of their big name players (Jeter, Cano, Marino, Posado, Andy Petite, Brett Gardner, etc.) are home-grown products. That is, they were brought up in the farm system of the team and have never played outside of the Bronx. We compete every year because we consistently have a good team of core players. Of course, we acquire other players but that doesn't mean we get a WS Title for spending. The Angels (correct me if I'm wrong) had the highest salary of any team this year and did not even get the wildcard. But still, the Yankees are one of the best franchises, as they compete every year for a WS, have the history of the game's best, and the city loves them. That's a fact for yesterday, today, and tomorrow.

^ I also tend to think of that. The Cardinals are historically the best franchise in America in my opinion--the most storied, the most tight-knit fanbase, etc. etc. That said, I would still argue that we are a top team this year and have potential to win the WS.

I agree. The Cards are one of the most, if not the most, historically successful team. They have a great baseball city to go along with great players. But we'll see about this year...