General Chat / NE Christmas Story

I'd greatly appreciate you screencapping all of this before you read it. It is A LOT and I don't know what will happen to my original text once I eventually get banned.

Hey guys!
Just wanted to finally let you know why I left and why I recently caused a little fuss in the hidden backstage area (oops).
You might remember this post
http://www.nedesigns...ndpost-p-556291
and how it compared posix to Hitler?
That was a funny one, wasn't it? =D

But it gets even funnier. Oooooh yes, it does.
This is the following personal message "discussion" that followed this between the infamous KONG and me. And I'm going to quote it entirely without any further comment on the argument itself.

Casimir:

My grandmothers first husband was executed because he opposed the NSDAP. 5 of my grandmothers siblings were executed by the SS because they all opposed the NSDAP. My other grandfather lost and arm and a leg in a concentration camp because he opposed the NSDAP. Both my parents were lifethreateningly injured during protests against post-WWII Nazi groups. I myself got badly injured by Nazi fuckers.
I advise you to not keep talking about stuff you don't know SHIT about and just shut the fuck up about it. Comparing Phil to a person which brought terror, death and destruction onto the whole fucking world not only disqualifies you as a person once and for all. It is an unspeakable offence to Phil which I dare you to take back.

Let me be fucking clear on this one. I will not accept this kind of degradation of the pain me and my family have endured for 3 generations counting from someone who has not even been close to the horrors that the Third Reich brought upon 99% of the Germans, aswell. We fought for our lives alongside many others in a struggle our country is in since 1933. You better sometimes pay some respect where it's due. Not playing the Nazi card is part of that.

KONG:

Really dude? Is that really what you took from that? I'm sure that's how you're gonna pitch it to Phil too, right?
Ya know...your little "Hero of the Helpless" act is growing old real fast.

Casimir:

Aaaaand you blew it. Impressive. I've got nothing more to say to you.

KONG:

I appreciate that. Because you have an absolutely tactless and ignorant way of communicating.

Had you ended your initial message after the first paragraph, I'd have been prompted to formulate an intelligent response that included some form of apology for inadvertently offending you with my flippant remark in the forums that was, by no means, intended to have any effect other than to get my point across.

Instead, you chose to continue on, play "badass interhero" and try to tough-talk me into some kind of forced retraction of something that was not directed towards you and therefore, none of your fucking business in the first place. Which renders everything from " I advise you..." on as nothing but the idiotic ramblings of a fool.
Without having any knowledge whatsoever of my ancestry, the assumption of my ignorance to the subject matter, thinly-veiled 'ultimatum' and knee-jerk reaction to something that, as far as you might know, is as painful to me as it is to anyone was completely unnecessary and as far as I'm concerned, completely out of line. What you will or will not "accept" is entirely up to you. And, just a little "FYI" here.....nothing impedes clarity quite as effectively as a boastful "Let me be fucking clear" emanating from someone attempting to arrogantly make a point, whether it be valid or mere rubbish.

As for whatever it is that I "blew"...I guess I'll just have to live with it. And, as far as it being "impressive"...your sarcasm is duly noted.

Thought I'd add that I just checked the "RCT4 closer to reality?" topic. Had a chuckle at what MA quoted. Contradict yourself much?

Time for my advice...if you're gonna try to get all hard with me, make sure you haven't already made whatever you're attempting to say irrelevant with your own words.

BTW, I don't know what crawled up your ass recently...you seem to want to be quite argumentative pretty much out of nowhere. That's your prerogative. But, if you want to talk about something...I dunno, just to get it off of your chest, I've never had any issues with you before and I did major in psych/sociology.

Just sayin'.

Casimir:

I don't get bitter about online stuff, until it gets personal. Like in a way that dishonors everything 3 generations of Germans have always fought for, risking their own lives.

Whatever happened to you in your life, that has made you this bitter, ignorant and uncaring, I am truly sorry for. But nothing gives you the right to ignore the pain of others.

I am not going to continue any argument in any form. You might take that as a sign of weakness. I know it is because I am not going to let you continue to verbally spit on everything I stand for.

I really hope you will be able to find your peace someday.

------------------------------------------------------------

Sooooo... "What did you do about it then", you might ask. Clever question.
I did contact posix about it. Because our conversation was in German, I'm gonna shorten it a bit and only list the main arguments.

Casimir:
- Urge to leave the team if nothing happens in reaction to the conversation with KONG b/c I can't be part of such a team

posix:
- Already had conversations of that kind with KONG, you should try to ignore him and leave him alone with his obvious problems

Casimir:
- Reinforcing my wish to step down from the team and basically NE itself in case nothing happens in reaction

posix:
- Unterstanding, telling me that KONG is on the brink of being banned anyway

Casimir:
- Have to draw a clear line with "nazi"-stuff, no proportionality concerning bans (TimothyCross <-> KONG)

posix:
- Asking me whether I had seen KONGs "apology" (link to NE Design Challenge thread)

Casimir:
- Was no apology, was an analytical explanation of his previous post; reinforcing once again my urge to NOT be a panelist anymore.

After that: Silence.

Nothing happened to KONG and, funnily enough, nothing happened to my panelist status either!



After that, I also contacted Louis and geewhzz, who both couldn't do anything about it whatsoever for alarmingly understandable reasons.
And this was the reason for me to leave. Nothing ever happened. Not. a. thing.


I'm kind of sad that I couldn't also provide you with a nice ending for our little christmas story. Let's see what the new year brings us, shall we?

But I of course can let you know what I wrote in the backstage thread! There you are:

I've kept in the background, checking on the community every once in a while.

1. Posix (especially), Louis - Do you guys actually have any idea what you want to do with this site? Really? Like... do you even talk about stuff anymore? Now that geewhzz got effectively bullied out by whom- or whatever?
I think I don't need to specify on this, you'll most likely know what I'm talking about.
The way you're "managing" the site right now, I'll give it another 2 or 3 months, half a year at best, before it's all gonna go down in a huuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuge clusterfuck. I've seen communities die. It ain't pretty.

2. I could do some of the ridiculously large amount of aerials over the holidays, as you've obviously not managed to find some kind of alternative solution. At all.
But I'm actually not that sure whether it'd be worth it anymore. As there doesn't seem to be any kind of vision behind NE anymore, ya know?

3. How exactly is it that NONE (let me repeat that: NONE) of the usual suspects got their wrists slapped at least a bit for these pathetic fights OVER A FUCKING COMPUTER GAME (there, I said it)?
After everything "everybody's darling" has done to get me the fuck out of the community? (You don't even need to begin to type one of your "I'm so fucking badass that I'm getting into online fights with nerds over RCT" whatyamaycallits. I'm not gonna waste a single word talking to you)
And don't pretend you guys don't know about all this. As a matter of fact, you're not even in line with each other on THIS issue.



Bottom line:
Do you guys have any friggin clue what you're doing / what you want to do?

What the "team" needs to do in order to get this place up and running again:

1. Become a real team. Louis is both the most reasonable and the most powerless admin this site has ever seen. He's trying to finally calm down those idiots in the Dump and what does posix do? Gets behind is back, undermines his efforts and suggests to split up the community. Yeah, I know. In before "It was just a joke" 'n stuff. Way to go.
What I know is that you obviously aren't on talking conditions with either Louis or geewhzz. How's that supposed to work exactly?
If you don't have the time or the patience for this or if you just don't give a fuck anymore (what I'd totally understand, given the number of dickheads we have around here), resign.

2. Find someone to get shit done around here.
You've known in advance that I might not have the patience to keep on doing maps while everything goes down the drain. 2 months later - 11 maps piled up, nothing got released. If you don't have the time or the patience for this or if you just don't give a fuck anymore, resign.

3. Get.this.place.cleaned.up.from.those.destructive.jerks.
Nothing more to say about that. I'm amazed at how easy it is not to get banned. You've obviously just got to have been around some years and you're perfectly safe, even if you've been the trigger for every major argument within the community for yeeeeeeeeeeears. If anyone feels personally addressed by this: Let me tell you, it's not just you.
If you don't have the time or the patience for this or if you just don't give a fuck anymore, resign.


You've brought us the new NE, the best one ever. But you failed to keep alive some of the basic rules of a working online community. If you don't have the time or the patience, please, let someone else do it.

I received some approval and some ignorance for what I said, just as I expected.

In case I get banned and/or shitstormed for my little whistleblowing act:
Happy New Year! =D

Ah, completely forgot about this. If you're wondering why there haven't been any releases lately - the maps pile up in the job tab.
I provided a FULL tutorial both written and with pictures on October 12th. Obviously, there has been nobody who wanted to do it. Right? Couldn't possibly have any other explanation than that.

Wow, you are making so much drama over a fucking video game?

This site always had his more outspoken (read ass-hole of the year award material) members. The difference is that waving the banhammer over every small incident doesn't make a community better.
For the last few years I've been playing WoW and believe me if the community their was even remotely like this it would be a very happy day for that game community. The biggest influx would be that all the whiners left and actually stayed gone would be a breath of fresh air.

As for the work thas is done for the site, RRP already summed that up pretty plain and simple:

Lack of drive/organisation/motivation backstage
It's a fan site based on a old game ran by people who now have other commitments.That's all there is to be said I think. Start paying for things and people would be more than happy to deliver on time.

IMO this is a fight between Casimir and K0ng and therefore irrelevant to me.
As others said, this is a site about a video game, so get over it!

"MFG"

I'd rather have complete freedom of speach, than some forum-regime trying to
regulate our behavior into some norm of moral equality, where everyone feels continuous pressure.
Let us enjoy the game, and let trash-talking bastards be.

haha, edited.

Someone should contact Casimir and tell him Fantastico got onto his account

First of all...Casimir, grow some thicker skin. It's an internet forum, so....."sticks and stones", etc.

Secondly, not once did I ever compare anyone to Hitler. Actually, I never compared anyone to anyone. I used the term "Mein Fuhrer" in it's literal translation: "My Leader" (since I don't speak German, I actually Googled it to make sure that it didn't translate directly as "Hitler") to allude to what I saw as a bit of a dictatorship emerging here. YOU are the one that took that to mean Hitler. And, I'm not gonna sit here and pretend that I didn't realize that someone might come to the same conclusion as you before I ever hit 'Add Reply'. But, as I said in our PM, my sole intention was to get my point across and I'm smart enough to know that the best way to do that is by saying something 'controversial' to get people's attention. I also said that, had you ended your initial PM after the first paragraph instead of carrying on with your threatening tone and "disqualifying" me as a person, I'd have been inclined to apologize to you if you took my post in a way other than it was intended and were offended by it. But, you didn't...so, I reacted the same way that I do to anyone that wants to get personal with me.

Dude...in any community, RL or on the 'net, you have differences of opinions and ego clashes and people argue about shit. That's just the way things are. It's all about how you deal with matters. Personally, I lash right back at whoever wants to play and get it out of my system rather than to eternally hold on to bullshit and/or childishly threaten to leave the clique because I'm not fond of one of it's members. "If you don't stop hanging out with him, I'm not gonna be your friend any more". C'mon, man....that's fucking Jr. High shit. And, it's your choice and yours alone.

Also: "Ah, completely forgot about this. If you're wondering why there haven't been any releases lately - the maps pile up in the job tab.
I provided a FULL tutorial both written and with pictures on October 12th. Obviously, there has been nobody who wanted to do it. Right? Couldn't possibly have any other explanation than that".

Louis posted that there was a need for someone that wanted to do the maps, and I volunteered. He mentioned a tutorial and I never heard anything about it after that. That's another thing...I've offered, more than once (both openly and privately to both posix and gee)to help out in any way I can around here. Just so no one thinks that I like to complain about shit but have no desire to do anything about it. My comment about making me admin wasn't completely sarcastic.

Edit: @leonidas...millions of peaches, peaches for me...millions of peaches, peaches for free.

Hah? I never got wind about you wanting to do aerials. Together with in:cities that would make you two new guys in the team. About the admin spot, I'm not entirely sure what difference it would make. What could you do with the admin label on your account that you couldn't do now? I'll pm you.

Why is this thread "NE Christmas Story"? BTW, I agree with you that K0NG needed to use better wording...

Cas, you're making yourself look desperate here. Playing the victim and taking the low road like this won't warm others to your intentions. While you found what K0NG said to be inappropriate, airing a private PM conversation is equally inappropriate, as well as the shit-stirring you're trying to do, which is way more excessive than anything K0NG's done in the past. I certainly won't "screencap" this, considering I feel that you don't want your most desperate moment on NE to be fully remembered.

While K0NG may have not been entirely appropriate, this topic here seems a lot worse than what he's done.

Oh, and my grandmother's family was also deeply affected by the Nazi regime, so it's not like I don't have a personal connection to this. I also wonder... Why no comment when people refer to JDP as a coaster Nazi? That's way more direct than K0NG's translation.

--Fin (so it's still a Christmas story)--

Seriously. Seriously? Did this topic just happen?

The image you've given is someone who has used a threat of leaving to try and enforce something happening - Posix called your bluff, then you had to leave.

But you didn't really leave, did you? Because you don't want to. You've been lurking around in the background, getting angrier and angrier.

Eventually, it all became too much for you - especially how no-one really seemed to give a shit once you'd left.

So it all burst out in this silly little tantrum topic.

IF YOU'RE GOING TO LEAVE, FUCK OFF. Sorry for the language, but it's that simple. If you use that threat, go through on it, leave and don't come back and move on with your life. Hint: there are plenty of other hobbies and activities you could spend your time doing.

But you feel like you've left too much unsaid. Just know now that the cost of getting rid of that feeling is that everyone here is now seeing you in a completely different light.

And don't say you don't care, you clearly do.

Also, publically publishing a private conversation is not cool.


Finally, I would love to help doing aerials if the site needs any help doing that.

I'm with Casimir here. I can see why KONG's original post was offensive. KONG, you clearly used the term in a derogatory manner, and I don't see the distinction between the literal translation and the allusion to Hitler. Of course you knew what you were doing, so don't try to back out now.

I happen to think that Casimir behaved very well after that incident. He had a problem with it, so went to KONG directly and privately, before going to the admin directly and privately. His problem wasn't solved, so he decided to leave. Again, privately, with no fuss or attention. I remember wondering why he'd gone, and was sad to see him go.

Personally, I don't really care that much about this subject - it doesn't affect me at all, and I don't mind either way. But i'm annoyed that you guys above me have jumped on the "defend NE" bandwagon.

Edit - due to a post made by RRP backstage, thought i'd clarify some points that maybe don't come across in my post.

1) Although I can see why KONG's post was offensive, that doesn't mean I don't think he should have made it. RRP made the point that the forums should be largely unmoderated, which I agree with. A large part of that is anyone being able to say anything, and then the forum dealing with it in its own way, by people replying and stating their opinion.

2) Slightly related - don't close topics just because there's an argument going on in them. Or a controversial post. Those are just as much a feature of NE as anything else.

Just to clarify, I'm not jumping on any pro or anti NE bandwagons. Casimir's behaviour in this thread is such that I can't even see through it to the point he's trying to make, which is a shame if he has a good point to make. I would have preferred him to calmly have said why he was leaving when he did rather than this threat of leaving unless something happens then kind of leaving then coming back crying.

Completely agree with Turtle on the K0NG Hitler point though. That was what you meant K0NG, stand by your words. Mein Fuhrer has only ever significantly referred to one person in the whole of history.

Deano, I have to say that your first post started of as some conclusion for a detective movie XD

I wish we could all get along like we used to in middle school... I wish I could bake a cake filled with rainbows and smiles and everyone would eat and be happy...

I wish I could bake a cake filled with rainbows and smiles and everyone would eat and be happy...

*She doesn't even go here!*

I just have a lot of feelings!

Secondly, not once did I ever compare anyone to Hitler. Actually, I never compared anyone to anyone. I used the term "Mein Fuhrer" in it's literal translation: "My Leader" (since I don't speak German, I actually Googled it to make sure that it didn't translate directly as "Hitler") to allude to what I saw as a bit of a dictatorship emerging here. YOU are the one that took that to mean Hitler. And, I'm not gonna sit here and pretend that I didn't realize that someone might come to the same conclusion as you before I ever hit 'Add Reply'.

Sorry but you've just made it quite clear you were saying Hitler there. Isn't it funny how you're at the center of just about every argument that goes on at this site? And now you want to be an admin? I'm not saying you're the bad guy but sometimes it might be best to keep your mouth shut for once.

Of course there's always the old "it's just a game", and that's why no one should take things said on the board personally, but that's also why you shouldn't have to personally attack anyone either.

Why no comment when people refer to JDP as a coaster Nazi? That's way more direct than K0NG's translation.

...shit just got real
-JDP