Contests / New Element Design Challenge

I know that but I still think he did have an advantage in terms of understanding the coaster and since I remember it was meant for one his parks he aleady had a well thought out concept and plan for it is what I meant, I'm not saying to ban him from the contest...

I wasn't trying to offend anyone I just wanted to point out that fairness is as relative as anything in a contest...

I don't see how having a restricted set of objects is unfair.Everyone has the same set to work with. How often does this community bang on about how creative people are when they use an object in a position it wasn't originally designed for?
see: gravestone on roof for chimneys (even though they look nothing like it)

Because not everyone typically uses the same set of objects. For instance, Louis created this bench, so the selected objects would naturally be to his liking. Robbie doesn't typically use these same objects so he has to adjust his style to adapt to the bench, whereas Louis is already comfortable with it. Adaptation takes time. As far as this community banging on about some new way to use an object...I love to see new ideas like that, but how often does that really occur?

I get the whole "use your creativity" crap. But, someone that's used to creating with specific objects has an advantage over someone that's not used to building with the same selection. Like I mentioned before...I'm doing my first NCSO project and it's almost like a different game. If I were to enter a NCSO contest against nin and JDP, I'd be at a definite disadvantage. I don't think that anyone could argue that. And three weeks isn't a lot of time to try to develop a new style.

There is nothing wrong with this bench. It could have been the basic NCSO bench and there'd be no problem. Either think about how to 'creatively' use an object or compromise and don't do what you were trying to do.

Look at the objects you have to build with.Then either try and build what you envision with the tools you have or build what is possible.

That's your opinion, as I and others have obviously found plenty "wrong" with this bench as it pertains to our building style. Again, if this were a NCSO bench, there would be a few people that would have a distinct advantage in a competitive situation over most of us. No one wants to have to "compromise" in a contest when others clearly don't have to.

Again, I'm not whining or bitching about the bench...I'm going to build what I can with what's available. And like it, dammit. I'm just saying that there is an unfair element to dictate what everyone can and cannot build with. And that should be taken into consideration in the future if everyone wants to see people actually give these contests their absolute best effort. It's difficult to stay motivated when you have one thing in mind and then realize that you have to compromise your ideas because of the limitations of the bench.

That's my point kong. Your saying its unfair because its missing an object that you want to use.

I'm just saying that there is an unfair element to dictate what everyone can and cannot build with

That isn't an unfair rule. That's just down to your own ability of being able to build out of your comfort zone. It isn't unfair,its just a rule.

You could add that object to the official bench and make yourself happy, but there would still be people wouldn't use it see:beemer supports

If it was a 'add what you want bench' then people would be equally at a disadvantage because some people with object making knowledge could remake every object for the bench to suit themselves (as an extreme example).
Whichever way the rule is set, people are at a disadvantage.Learn to work with whats available.

Since I've already stated that I'm going to build with what's available, and like it...your last line was useless except to validate my argument. "However the rule is set, people are at a disadvantage". If people are at a disadvantage, then the rule isn't fair to everyone. And, my first post addressed the notion of someone creating new objects for a contest. Since "new" objects wouldn't be available to everyone, they would be disallowed....though that really has nothing to do with my point. Which you still seem to be missing when you state "That's just down to your own ability of being able to build out of your comfort zone". This, and any set bench is going to put some out of their comfort zone while others will be right where they want to be. That's what makes it unfair. If it was my personal bench, I'd readily admit that it would be unfair to others. It's not about what I, personally, am comfortable with...it's about everyone having a bench that they're comfortable with. Remember, I made my statement well before anyone had seen the bench for this contest. So, I obviously wasn't complaining that it was missing objects that I want to use.

stop bitchin' and start buildin'

Since I've already stated that I'm going to build with what's available, and like it...your last line was useless except to validate my argument. "However the rule is set, people are at a disadvantage". If people are at a disadvantage, then the rule isn't fair to everyone. And, my first post addressed the notion of someone creating new objects for a contest. Since "new" objects wouldn't be available to everyone, they would be disallowed....though that really has nothing to do with my point. Which you still seem to be missing when you state "That's just down to your own ability of being able to build out of your comfort zone". This, and any set bench is going to put some out of their comfort zone while others will be right where they want to be. That's what makes it unfair. If it was my personal bench, I'd readily admit that it would be unfair to others. It's not about what I, personally, am comfortable with...it's about everyone having a bench that they're comfortable with. Remember, I made my statement well before anyone had seen the bench for this contest. So, I obviously wasn't complaining that it was missing objects that I want to use.

Typo on my part.Whichever way*

stop bitchin' and start buildin'

I've been building. I break for arguments.

At the end of the day, if you can't work around the rule of the set bench then don't build an entry.

This contest is merely a prototype of how we can run contests like it in the future. Things aren't perfect, there's still a lot of things to improve on.

We decided to go ahead and provide a smaller contest for the community as we can't currently provide you with the larger contest everyone has asked for. We came up with a compromise. If people don't like the compromise this time round and the rules that currently come with it then don't join in this time round, wait til next time.

My point is that posix and myself put a lot of our own personal time towards this site and towards bringing you a relatively decent official contest, have a bit more respect when saying things, I'm not talking bout k0ng and rrp as their discussion is calm and dignified, I'm talking about those of you that just come along and whinge whinge whinge without any care.

Are we allowed to mirror the layout

... but as it sounds you created the bench alone. I think a contest-bench should be created by (imo) 3 people, cause otherwise it could go to much into a special direction, which doesn't match with all building-styles. I still think it would have been better to give free choice for the bench or to take more time and 2 other people for creating the bench, that's all...

I say no because it's then making an entirely new layout, lefts become rights etc.

You know something's gone terribly wrong when I'm the one labeled as "calm and dignified".

All we allowed to make the station longer? Because I would like to use the articulated cars and want the train to be 12-cars long.

And can the chain speed be edited?

Thanks.

roomie rrp robbie92 magnus 5dave nin kong j k liampie loopy

How the hell did I miss this? God damn main page is shit with how news is shown.

Where are all the glass pieces? There are no glass roofs, no large glass walls, no curved glass pieces, and no glass blocks! There are only 3 glass pieces in the bench, not even including the ones that came with the game! You should really consider adding those pieces back in, I see them used in almost every rct2 release since forever. It's making my current theme really difficult to build not having glass roofs...

It's making things difficult for most everyone, I'd guess. But, it is what it is. It got me to the point of just saying "fuck it". Then, I realized that I can do a "roof" theme since there are more roof objects than anything. So, I have dibs on "Land of the Roof".

Once we're done with this there will be a topic in which we discuss changes to the bench. If you guys notice things now that you feel would make for an improvement it's good that you post them so there's a record of feedback for us. It's not so good that you have to do it this somewhat annoyed tone. I can understand that not getting to use certain objects you like to use or consider a trump in your style is frustrating, but please just try to respect our idea of giving everyone the same object set for better comparison of what people do with it. If you don't like it, why not drop out of the contest, create your ideal bench, and work with that. Louis has made it clear that this contest is substracting the object and bench making skills people have. Additionally, it's substracting the layout making skills. Thus, it will be about measuring the skill of people to use certain objects well and come up with something nice. That's what you have to realise if you want to win this contest.

Once we're done with this there will be a topic in which we discuss changes to the bench. If you guys notice things now that you feel would make for an improvement it's good that you post them so there's a record of feedback for us. It's not so good that you have to do it this somewhat annoyed tone. I can understand that not getting to use certain objects you like to use or consider a trump in your style is frustrating, but please just try to respect our idea of giving everyone the same object set for better comparison of what people do with it. If you don't like it, why not drop out of the contest, create your ideal bench, and work with that. Louis has made it clear that this contest is substracting the object and bench making skills people have. Additionally, it's substracting the layout making skills. Thus, it will be about measuring the skill of people to use certain objects well and come up with something nice. That's what you have to realise if you want to win this contest.

Sure, but the missing glass pieces imo seems more like an oversight more than anything else. I don't typically work with glass that much, it's not a stylistic issue, but those pieces are overwhelmingly popular and widely used by pretty much everyone; just take a look at the recent releases, most of them include glass- it's the nature of buildings in general, glass is ubiquitous in real life and in RCT2. I just so happened to decide on a theme that requires more glass, thinking, hey, it must be in the bench because it's considered a staple... ANYWAY, I'm ranting... just doesn't make sense why there's a lack of glass in the bench.

Micool has asked us to enter the contest late and we agreed to let him in. He will have to submit by the same deadline as everyone else of course.