Contests / New Element Design Challenge

It's just one layout, indeed, to keep it fair, as you said, but also to make it easy to compare entries to really find out who did the best job with it.

No Adding of objects
Whilst we understand that some of you may miss a favourite object you like to use, not changing the given bench is intended to improve fairness, as every player has the same means. The intelligent and creative usage of these objects is the challenge of this contest.

This is something that has annoyed the fuck out of me every time I've read it. Particularly because of the reasoning behind it. A standard, non-alterable bench is the last thing that promotes "fairness" or equality. Simply because the selected objects on a particular bench are sure to be perfect for a few people's building styles and habits while they're also sure to be nothing close to what others prefer or are used to building with. Which gives a clear advantage to those in the first group. What's "fair" about that? Sure, the second group can "adapt" but, the first group doesn't have to adapt to a damn thing and is absolutely comfortable with what's provided. "The intelligent and creative usage of these objects is the challenge of this contest". It's not much of a challenge to those that use certain objects all the time and, it's much easier to be creative with things you're comfortable with. I'm having one hell of a time being "creative" with NCSO...because I'm not used to it, while someone like nin or JDP feels right at home with NCSO. If this were a NCSO contest, you'd have to say that they'd have one hell of an advantage over me...even though we're all supplied with the "same means". One man's trash is, indeed, another man's treasure in this case. It's not like everyone doesn't have access to the "same means" as everyone else. It's like handing $10,000.00 US dollars to everyone and saying "you all have the same monetary means to survive with...see who can make it last longest". The actual value of the US dollar varies so much from country to country that some people are going to be almost broke as soon as you hand it to them while others would be able to live quite comfortably with it for quite some time. It's really the same thing in a contest like this...the "value" of certain objects are virtually nil to some while others find them to be quite valuable. I can understand "no new custom objects allowed" because obviously, not everyone would have access to them. But, as long as ParkDat exists, everyone does, indeed, have access to the "same means" as everyone else while at the same time, restricting everyone to the same "diet" is surely to cause problems to those with different dietary needs or even cause severe allergic reactions to some.

Say " Whilst we realize that this will give an unfair advantage to those that will find all of their favorite objects included....". Just don't try to convince yourself or anyone else that not allowing alterations to the bench in any way promotes "fairness".

I know this isn't going to change a fucking thing. But, every time I see someone say that the same bench must be used, with no alterations, for any kind of contest, to promote fairness...I have to wonder what the fuck they're smoking.

K0NG, every contest you enter, that has a specific bench to work to, you complain about.
Why bother entering if you have such a big issue with working on specific benches?

Either enter and don't bitch about something that isn't going to change, or don't bother entering in the first place.

You complain when we don't give you a contest, you complain when we do.

Sign me up, i'll give it a try.

You raise an interesting point K0NG, but you do it with such exaggerated and arrogant tone that I almost want to ignore your complete post. And please don't try to sell it as your special humour or one-of-a-kind unique personality that's speaking again. That hasn't worked for me for the whole time you've been a member here. It's just not believable to me.

Had you extended that quote a little longer, you would've seen that we do encourage bench update suggestions. Since this is a small contest easy for us to manage, we might as well have future rounds, in case this contest is decently successful. So, should you find the bench we will provide really does treat you so incredibly unfairly as you seem to fear, then we are more than happy to look at your "better and more balanced" bench you'll be presenting us. For the time being, could you just please show a minimum of appreciation that there is a contest and maybe consider that we actually tried to seek fairness with the "no alteration" rule. Reading posts like yours make it hard for me to stay positive.

let's not start this again, chaps.

Im in, in 2 weeks i have 4 weeks holiday, plenty of time!

I'm in.

Had you extended that quote a little longer, you would've seen that we do encourage bench update suggestions. Since this is a small contest easy for us to manage, we might as well have future rounds, in case this contest is decently successful. So, should you find the bench we will provide really does treat you so incredibly unfairly as you seem to fear, then we are more than happy to look at your "better and more balanced" bench you'll be presenting us. For the time being, could you just please show a minimum of appreciation that there is a contest and maybe consider that we actually tried to seek fairness with the "no alteration" rule. Reading posts like yours make it hard for me to stay positive.

"Bench update suggestions" merely suggest future, non alterable benches with different objects to me. Which wasn't my point at all. And, my post wasn't directed towards you or the rules of this contest specifically. If you read the first line, it says that "This is something that has annoyed the fuck out of me every time I've read it". That goes back to the Road Rallies at Space and relates to every contest with this absurd rule ever since. In fact, I believe that that specific rule led to the eventual downfall of the RR's. As more and more objects became available and people developed not only their own style, but also a certain "relationship" with a select group of them, telling potential entrants that they couldn't use objects (that were available to anyone that wanted them) for the sake of "fairness" and an "equal playing field" dissuaded more and more people from entering. Sure, there were other factors...such as the RCTSpace community itself dwindling...but, the RR's stayed popular quite a while after the usership began it's decline.

Secondly, while I do appreciate (as I'm sure everyone else does as well) the fact that there's actually an official, NE sanctioned contest being run, I'm not gonna, after all the closed topics and admin backlash towards all the members that came up with suggestions and ideas since H2H5, kiss anyone's ass because of it. Thank you, it's great....and it's about fucking time. I also believe that this isn't so much about rewarding members for their patience and loyalty...it's more because of all the topics for new, member run contests popping up and the fear of the inmates running the asylum.

Now, this....

You raise an interesting point K0NG, but you do it with such exaggerated and arrogant tone that I almost want to ignore your complete post. And please don't try to sell it as your special humour or one-of-a-kind unique personality that's speaking again. That hasn't worked for me for the whole time you've been a member here. It's just not believable to me.

That blanket, Xerox'd response from you towards everything I say that isn't harmonious with your opinion is laughable. And, it's run it's course. Your condescending tone towards anything not run-of-the-mill (which is even evident in your dislike of RCT2) as evidenced in your "So, should you find the bench we will provide really does treat you so incredibly unfairly as you seem to fear, then we are more than happy to look at your "better and more balanced" bench you'll be presenting us" comment is annoying as fuck to those of us that actually like a little flavor in our lives. I've never chastised you for being who you are, yet you continuously try to discredit my being with remarks like the quote above.

Dude, I am who I am whether you approve or not. I'm not here to live up to your expectations. Nor, you to mine. Get over it.

Just because you possess a dull, witless, vanilla, yet holier-than-thou "personality" doesn't necessarily preclude others from being vibrant, opinionated and interesting individuals. I'd even venture to say that your 'persona' here is far more of an act than anything ever emitted by me. You want to debate my opinions? Fine. But cut the "I'm not falling for your act" bullshit. Trust me, it's no act. I'm too old to play dress-up on a video game fansite.

I'll give it I try if I have enough time to finish it

K0NG, while I can see your point, I hardly think this is the thread for that discussion.. And looking at the way NE admins deal with aggressive criticism, I also think the tone of it might be a little non-constructive. That said, I'm all for optional benches in upcoming conests, possible with a specific mapsize announced at contest start to prevent any early starts.

I'll sign up but since classes just started, i don't know if I will finish a quality design. Will be fun to work on though!

I'm not going to reply to you K0NG because other than more annoying paragraphs that spam this topic with stuff I don't want in it, I don't see any good coming out of it.

K0ng is that really necessary each time???
I'm also not too happy with the settings of this contest, but everybody can decide to take part of it or not. You can also take your time for a normal accolade-submission. But I remember that you had been somebody who really wanted a new official contest, so why not just beeing happy about that? Things are not 100% perfect, nowhere...

C'mon guys don't get to worked up about KONG. No matter how the rules are adjusted he probally wont ever send something in cause a blackhole or computer crash or something like that will cause his submission to get corrupted or unfinnished.

Is there a possebility to see the bench sooner so I (or we) can see already what it has and get used to it. I oftend need about 2 or 3 days to get used to a bench. so if we could that on beforehand we could get started right away when the td file was released. Honestly you can't really build anything already cause you dont know the layout so people wouldn't be able to start sooner, unless they made a generic realistic park, but then they could just copy things from the previous parks and put it in this one also cause those objects will be in it nontheless.

Kong loves a good rant. It's not like every release contains the same base set of object give or take a few

OK, I might try it. Enter me, but I'm less active these days, so I won't guarantee an entry.

I can give this a shot.

Bad time for me with work, 2 classes, it's fantasy football season and I am doing 5 leagues this year. I think most of you would rather I work on Logos anyways, so I'll pass on this and save my contest energy for H2H whenever that comes to fruition...

Good luck guys, looking forward to a chance at judging these

K0ng is that really necessary each time???
I'm also not too happy with the settings of this contest, but everybody can decide to take part of it or not. You can also take your time for a normal accolade-submission. But I remember that you had been somebody who really wanted a new official contest, so why not just beeing happy about that? Things are not 100% perfect, nowhere...

Again, I'm not criticizing this specific contest or the rules pertaining to it. I'm actually happy as fuck that it's happening. I just hate the concept of the non-changeable bench somehow making anything "fair" as in actuality, it has the exact opposite effect. And, I said as much. Everything else is just extraneous and will be dealt with elsewhere from now on. I honestly don't want to fuck up a great topic with personal bullshit. And, I apologize to everyone not involved for having to be subjected to it.

Now...let's have a fucking contest (and, a snack)