(Archive) Advertising District / Workroom

No trav. The creativity in RCT2 is object making. Unless there are limitations, there is no creativity.

Biggest bs quote on creativity ever, not only for Rct but as a whole. Creativity comes in many types, and indeed, one of those can be about finding solutions and alternative representations because of the limited means (LL) available. However, using the best tools available in order to create the best graphic representations of whatever your mind can come up with (Rct2) is just as, if not more, creative. It's a mere matter of taste which one you like more.


What you're basically saying with that 2nd sentence I quote is that for example (in comparison to the realm outisde of rct) there is nó creativity in DC/Marvel comics any whatsoever because the artists use the best fineliners, ink etc. available instead of crayons. Sounds like bs to me, as the story has to be made, the setting to be invented, the delivery to be refined. Sounds like quite the creative process to me, even though there are ''no limitations.''


Ontopic:
Pierrot, I rest my case, you make LL interesting to me. Fascinating stuff.

If we're ignoring ride design and function than I don't think there's any question that RCT2 allows you to create more believable representations of reality. But having played both games I think there's a much bigger difference in game mechanics than most people acknowledge. (or maybe are even aware of?)

The practice of building sculptures out of coaster track is one way in which LL players have innovated in order to stretch the game's finite palette of options and create new themes that aren't built into the game. I think nowadays that gets mischaracterized as an attempt to approximate what can be done easier in RCT2, but in fact the whole style of parkmaking on this site evolved from LL players. This is partially what Posix is talking about with custom objects. There was an art to creating custom supports in LL and that became standardized and custom-objetified in RCT2. What that adds up to I think, is a whole different approach to playing the game. When I would design rides for my LL parks, nothing would be built using the game's ride tools alone. Everything was hacked. Why would I do that? Because I started playing the game in 1999. I haven't played much lately so that's maybe 10 years. I got bored with the original ride tools after maybe 2 years. All that hacking was a way just to keep the game interesting. In effect, hacking wasn't just a supplement to the game it was the game.

When I play RCT2 now I use custom objects and zero clearances a lot to create things that I used to make out of coaster track. And I'm much happier with the results in most cases. You have most of the same aesthetic tools that you do in LL with the addition of a whole lot more. But the problem for me is that RCT2's game design intentionally blocks most of the tricks we invented over the years to hack the rides. Track merging is more difficult to pull off which means there's less that you can effectively do with it. Then there's the ride reliability problem, the ghosting track problem, the limitation in ride modes. For anyone experienced in LL coaster hacking, trying to pull off the exact same things in RCT2 is like working with handcuffs on. And as much as I enjoy the aesthetic of the game's design, I've always enjoyed building functional creations a lot more than static ones. Illium City would have been done years ago if I didn't have to spend months re-learning simple hacks in RCT2's game system and struggling to invent new ones.

I can see some aesthetic reasons why some people still prefer LL. It does have a more streamlined look. Sometimes RCT2 parkmakers have a tendency to get lost in the details. But all in all, I think it's really pretty simple: some people prefer playing LL to playing RCT2 and whether the look of it is objectively inferior or not, I think it should be acknowledged that mechanically they are not the same game. I've seen a lot of parks in both games that look terrific but there's nothing going on inside of them. They're essentially giant screen shots. If that's what you're after (which is fine, if you are) than RCT2 offers a better set of options. If you want to get more involved with the mechanical workings of the game than I think LL (particularly with the codex) is still a more user-friendly game experience.

There's creativity in coming up with a theme and deciding how it should look. Coming up with the right object(s) to use for the theme is just modeling it. If you like the challenge of modeling with limited options, you can play LL. If you like being able to depict your idea more precisely, you can play RCT2..

I build rct2 when I want to create detailed, realistic architecture or very specific, lively themes.

I build LL when I want to create atmospheric, flowing parks with an emphasis on the 'emotion' that one feels when viewing it.

Both games are great. Both need immense creativity. Why are we bickering over this?

'nuff said

^ yeah, well said Cocoa.

It's depressing to see finding fault with each series. Both are having own advantages and greatness so please drop it. thanks.

^Someone give this man a medal!

plz don't get frustrated over this and just build what you like with whatever medium you prefer to use, although I would like to see you use rct2 aswell just to see how it would look...

But the problem for me is that RCT2's game design intentionally blocks most of the tricks we invented over the years to hack the rides. Track merging is more difficult to pull off which means there's less that you can effectively do with it. Then there's the ride reliability problem, the ghosting track problem, the limitation in ride modes. For anyone experienced in LL coaster hacking, trying to pull off the exact same things in RCT2 is like working with handcuffs on. And as much as I enjoy the aesthetic of the game's design, I've always enjoyed building functional creations a lot more than static ones. Illium City would have been done years ago if I didn't have to spend months re-learning simple hacks in RCT2's game system and struggling to invent new ones.

This sounds more like a problem of the user struggling with the change in game mechanics, not a limitation of the game. Like you said, trying to pull off something you've built in LL is working with handcuffs because you're used to the LL method of building. That said, if someone experienced in RCT2 wants to recreate that something, it wouldn't be as difficult.

This is similar to working with an older version of a program, let's say AutoCAD 2001, then upgrading to AutoCAD 2012 which a whole bunch of different features; while the two share many similar base functions, there is still a learning curve in getting used to how the newer version works, where the functions are, learning the new features, etc. This isn't the perfect example because RCT2 and LL are much more different than that, but it's the same idea. But to your point about "giant screenshot" type parks, where everything is static... can you clarify how rct2 is more prone to this than LL?

Sorry guys, I've planned lot of things, but I just have lost my motivation to work with this project atm..heres are rushed one.

[font="tahoma"]Dark Star[/font]




full scale view



LLLL

Stop. Just stop.

Wow

It feels a tad stretched out, but other than that this is just só cool!

wow

Oh my god, that's just incredible. I love the use of graves as stars and the little spaceship being destroyed is excellent. Are you going to release these minis?

this is fucking awesome !

Reminds me of 2001 a space oddessey. Truly wonderful work, just re-imagining LL ands rct in general.

FK

Jesus christ that is hot. But you stole my idea to make a map set in space.

That's incredible Pierrot! The sculpture itself is wonderfully imaginative but the star field just puts it over the top. This is really something to be proud of.

I understand it there's a blue lazer shooting an attacker? This is just so beyond ...

Ah.. the big picture.
Looks.....spacylicious.
Nice work Pierrot.

This is by far the coolest thing I've ever seen in RCT!