(Archive) Advertising District / Montu - Busch Gardens, Tampa

I did a search and I didn't find any topics that was a Montu track recreation. So I thought I'd start one, with the idea in mind to become a better coaster builder. A lot of Montu is in a series of pits. Some are pretty deep. I figure, once the track is developed, I can lower land tiles and create the pits then create the supports and the structures around the area & landscaping.

But for now, lets focus on the track layout. The rest will come in good time. Alright? Cool. I have not come without screens. I imagine that there are a few of you who will have a few questions and comments, but please remember, this is just the ground floor. There is more to come and my hopes are that we'll end up with a topic that takes the development of Montu, from it's initial version, and documents the entire process through to the final landscaping and strucure details. Here we go...

Stations, lift hill, initial drop, photo track, (long tunnel, emmelman, S-bend (to avoid first loop) dip & Barrel roll.


Same stuff different POV.



Here you can see in the upper right the drop from the Barrel Roll, (which runs out to the batwing/bow tie.) On the return route, the helix and the turn around, the dip before the vertical loop, and the turn around that grazes the viewing area, and the track to the corkscrew, (which is out of the picture.)



Below: Here's the corkscrew and the rise up to the final run to the station. Without brakes, the trains roll along the brake run at 17 MPH.



Below is the batwing/bow tie. Don't forget, this will get lowered three levels, or 15 feet. So this will be in a pit like the real coaster.



Below: Another POV.



Below: You can see on the hight marks on the tracks, that the track is lowered as it snakes through the S-bends. This is so there is enough momentum for the trains to make it through the corkscrew. Otherwise it just won't make it to the brake run.



Below: The brake run is pretty stinkin' long. It's one thing I can't really get away from. But it's probably due to the limitations of RCT 2.



See? I told you it's long. I would of put a dip in the track here, but as recreations go, that's not a good idea.



So lets start off at the stations and the lift hill, and move on from there. My usual double station and this handles four trains. I know some people don't like it, but heck... Did you see the brake run? It's a mile if it's an inch! So to me, the extra station isn't going to do anything to make the brake run any shorter.

I was planning to use a wooden coaster as the catwalk, painting it creme, (beige) as the pictures I snagged off the internet indicate. It could go higher for the large inversions, but I'm aprehensive about speeds and G forces.

After the drop, I had a real tough time with using the large vertical loop elements. (I would need to put in a brake run between the Emmelman and the bat wing at the back of the ride.) As it would pull too many G's to be acceptable. So I went with lower inversions, so as to keep the speeds down and thus, the Gs as well.

So lets focus on what to do from the station to the bat wing. And lets not forget that it's all gonna drop 3 levels. Ok?

You don't happen to have an overview of the whole layout do you?

Other than the color scheme and the order of the elements, I don't really see Montu.

Some notes:
-The whole thing is way too small. Montu is 150 feet or so in real life.
-There are not separate exit and entrance-only stations.
-It is restricted to a three train because of its blocking setup (station, lift hill, MCBR, final brake run).
-The track is missing the B&M signature pre-drop after the lift and its MCBR.
-Some other elements look to be completely improvised or not in the correct order.

I made this rough draft just to show that you can use the larger elements at the beginning and still make a relatively good, accurate layout that is still rideable for peeps. Of course things should be adjusted for the trenches and whatnot, and I'm sure someone else has some better ideas on how to fit some of the awkward/long straight stretches.


B&Ms are incredibly difficult to recreate in RCT. Keep at it though! Definitely will be rewarding once you get things just right.

Nice trys, tho Wolfman, there is not helix coming into or out of the batwing and John there is not track in the Immelmann. Compared to Kumba this would be easy

Good luck with it

yeah john you need to extend the track between the loop and immelmann so the track isnt going through the immelmann layout.

however you have a really nice layout there, not that you are going to be using it, unless you are, which would be fantastic

wolfman you have a long way to go. maybe try drawing out the layout on paper first to see how you can get it to accurately transfer into RCT and have it aesthetically pleasing.

Looking again, the diagonal jog after the second loop should be on the other side of the dive after the Immelman, but it most certainly crosses over the track between the first loop and the Immelman. Moving the second diagonal jog would alleviate the issue of crossing over the Immelman. But like I said, that was just a rough draft to show that the larger elements can and should be used.

^haha the link dont work, and yeh thats what i was saying, it crosses over, but not through the immelmann element.

That layout looks ugly, how close it may look like the real thing.

Sorry, Bing is dumb when it comes to linking. Here's an overview on Google Maps though.

...when it comes to recreations, u have two choices. You try really hard to be accurate and end up with an ugly coaster, or you take the major elements and smooth the transitions in RCT for a more enjoyable coaster..not so much a recreation as an interpretation. i would go with the 2nd

FK

B&Ms are incredibly difficult to recreate in RCT. Keep at it though! Definitely will be rewarding once you get things just right.

Here's another interpretation of the ride. Unfortunately the MCBR and first drop are not ideal distance from each other, but it should give you another idea for how to interpret this ride.


I also have an LL recreation of Montu if you're interested.

Yeah, I got the Google Earth pic and thanks for everyone who gave their advice. Forgive my ignorance, but what's MCBR? BTW: I re-adjusted that lift hill and drop so many times, I must of forgotten about that dip. Thanks for reminding me, I'll be sure to add it to the next version.

I want to mention that the large vertical loop does not require a drop of 150 feet for a train to pass through it. It may have a height of 150ft. But the drop is 128 ft. which is just about right.

Maverick's bat wing is way too big, using the large loops. It's nowhere near that size. But I do like a few other elements that Mavrick has used. Right after the Immelmann, he used a 45 deg. curve and made a drop into another 45 deg. bend, with a rise into the barrel roll. I was going to do the same thing, except I used an S-Bend to get out of line with the small vertical loop. (Which I'll probably remove from the design. and Adapt Mavrick's elements.)

ButI think that the place that we're really concerned about is where the track passes over the underground area between the virtical loop and the Immelmann loop. There is no track running through there. Although Mavrick's version of the underground track is much too long. And there is no way that the gentle bend to the left can be created in the tunnel. So it has to be created elsewhere and after the Immelmann seems to be the right place.

So back to John's version, I think the track that cuts across there is much closer to the first vertical loop. In fact, right between the loop and the tunnel directly afterwards. You guys may have been a little off. But not that far off. Then the small vertical loop is on the wrong side of the barrel roll. But seeing how there's a bit of flat track just before that point, it shouldn't be that hard to correct for that. Leaving the helix in it's place.

But that bend at the loop & the tunnel. That's a major element that has to be there. It buzzes the observation area right there.

A regular station can hold three trains, right? Then I don't have to fart around with block brakes after all. And if all I have to do is set the departure times, then I'll be happy with this one. A rule of thumb is that I try not to allow the trains to drop below 10 MPH. Then once the weight of peeps is included, the trains always seem to make it through the circuit. So if there are no more suggestions to contemplate, I'll set to work on the next version.

BTW: Anyone know where I can get a good set of inverted supports? The ones I have now just give you the 1/4 tile stuff for inverted track connectors. Nothing centered on the full tile to actually connect to the track. I had reworked a few diagonal support objects, but the right angle supports is a different ball of wax altogether. It seems that repositioning and renaming supports might be a big part of this project.

I'm not going to worry about that until it's time to put supports on the thing.

MCBR is Mid-Course Brake Run.

I actually prefer the small loops for the batwing, but I was trying to illustrate several differences.

Block brakes make recreations much more realistic. My layout actually times itself quite well so no trains stop at any point (during testing a one second delay on the lift translates to loading time). Also with blocks, you should design 5 blocks for 3 trains. Station, lift, midcourse, brakes, transfer.

Unfortunately, I have not been on montu, so I have to go only by pictures.

Yeah, mine is the same way. With five blocks, trains are able to stop safely and the MCBR block operates only to slow the train to about 15 mph.

Wolfman, I didn't mean that the RCT version should be 150 feet in RCT terms, just that 75 feet in RCT terms plus the smaller inversions at first is downsizing it a bit too much.

There's definitely a balance to be had. It will just take some patience.

I used 60mph as my height mark. Speed has always been my way to measure height and pacing. It takes away from the asthetics a little but makes up for it in operational accuracy.

My midcourse is fully functional, so it briefly slows to 4mph but at the same time signals the lift to release the next train.

I was looking at the Kumba re-creation, by Kumba. (Now you know what inspired me to do Montu, So NE would have two world class coasters.) Kumba did the train barn with two trains in a three bay barn. So I'm wondering, how'd he do that? Sitting trains on a track in the barn? If you guys have any links to tutorials, that would be very much appeciated.

As far as "block Beakes"... I know tha slowing the trains down to four MPH isn't realistic. But knowing that the MCBR is at the top of a hill, it might be worth it if a chain block was used, and a few regular brakes as the slowing factor at that point. (At least, the MCBR seems to be a track element that lines up with the grid fairly well.

I'm off to redesign the layout. The next time you hear from me, I'll have probably have had breakfast.

you don't seem to have the knowledge to be doing a detailed recreation to the level of kumbas. maybe start on something with a smaller scale. the only comments you are going to get will be criticism because the expectations in rct2 for a recreation are pretty high. especially considering the level of detail such as the one kumba is doing.

I'd suggest starting with recreating something that has a much more basic layout until you can grasp the idea of translating real coasters into RCT.

you don't seem to have the knowledge to be doing a detailed recreation to the level of kumbas. maybe start on something with a smaller scale. the only comments you are going to get will be criticism because the expectations in rct2 for a recreation are pretty high. especially considering the level of detail such as the one kumba is doing.

Ecouraging.

The slowest spot is 14 MPH after the flip of the Immelmann. I was going to drop the track one level after the first loop, so the second inversion would be slightly lower than the first. This would allow the curve after the Railroad Helix to be slightly lower, then I wouldn't have to add a one-level drop before the corkscrew, hidden in the S-Bends.

Suggestions?