General Chat / GOD

ehh kinda lol

sorrry bout that:]

Edited by In:Cities, 10 August 2009 - 12:06 PM.

Shit happens.

This is the kind of thing I think about when I get really good and hammered.

Shit does happen, you're absolutely right. Chance is really important and explains many of life's features as a result of a long evolutionary path. But I think that the world we live in has such a high degree of order, like the principles of natural selection for example, there has to be something that ties it all together. As humans we've evolved over millions of years, but it's not been something we could control. Likewise we see ants running around in the dirt, and at any instant one could die just by stepping on it, but they are one of the most successful creatures that will likely outlast us. The moment of "creation" may very well have been an accident but why has it continued to exist all this time? For me personally, I find it hard to believe that all the intricacies of the world are purely the result of chance. Every single infant that is born yearns for love and not violence--at least at that very young age when the effects of parenting are not known. It could very well be the opposite case if "shit happens", or at the very least there must be one exception? Unless you take up the argument that this is one of an infinitely many amount of worlds (Full Metal) where in fact all newborns are more inclined toward violence than love, which is a whole different argument that belongs in a discussion more philosophical than theological. I took a class in Metaphysics last year in college and believe me, the argument of possible worlds is a difficult one to prove conclusively on either side (whether you try to argue they exist or they don't exist) and it ends up being a circular discussion very easily.

Edited by CoasterForce, 10 August 2009 - 03:09 PM.

^Read Parallel Worlds by Michio Kaku. Definitely an interesting book with lots of pieces of evidence to suggest that there may be other "parallel worlds" out there. When you're done with that, read God: The Failed Hypothesis by Victor Stenger. More evidence that proves that what happens in the world happens for a very scientific reason, and is not an act of God.

Shit does happen, you're absolutely right. Chance is really important and explains many of life's features as a result of a long evolutionary path. But I think that the world we live in has such a high degree of order, like the principles of natural selection for example, there has to be something that ties it all together. As humans we've evolved over millions of years, but it's not been something we could control. Likewise we see ants running around in the dirt, and at any instant one could die just by stepping on it, but they are one of the most successful creatures that will likely outlast us. The moment of "creation" may very well have been an accident but why has it continued to exist all this time? For me personally, I find it hard to believe that all the intricacies of the world are purely the result of chance. Every single infant that is born yearns for love and not violence--at least at that very young age when the effects of parenting are not known. It could very well be the opposite case if "shit happens", or at the very least there must be one exception? Unless you take up the argument that this is one of an infinitely many amount of worlds (Full Metal) where in fact all newborns are more inclined toward violence than love, which is a whole different argument that belongs in a discussion more philosophical than theological. I took a class in Metaphysics last year in college and believe me, the argument of possible worlds is a difficult one to prove conclusively on either side (whether you try to argue they exist or they don't exist) and it ends up being a circular discussion very easily.

It's a moot point to bring up alternate possibilities of evolution. Things are as they are because they had to be as they are, or you wouldn't be asking this question. All other evolutionary possibilities that aren't currently existing are extinct or being extinguished because they cannot survive. That's how evolution works... Only those that can survive, will survive, and will reproduce. This process leaves you only with those traits that are able to survive in this world (not necessarily the strongest or best suited. Just those that equal survival.)

So with your violent baby hypothetical... If all babies were violent, it would destroy the species chances of survival on a long timeline. This gene is gone, because it was bad for the individual in the species (and by default, bad for the species, because it could not reproduce.)

As far as ants go, how are judging success? The oldest ant won't live 1/100 as long as I have already lived. Sure, the species may live longer than us, but I've outlived many generations already.

I don't understand why people claim that the odds are too slim for things to have happened by chance. Saying that there's a chance that something may happen is saying that it could have happened. You can't claim that a lottery winner didn't win because the odds were 1/1,000,000,000. It happened because there was a chance, no matter how slim. Our world exists. There was a chance that it could have happened spontaneously. It's a possible, logical solution.

Everyone in this thread thinks that they are right.

Since we don't all agree, it is impossible for everyone to be correct. This is one ultimate truth, and if one person thinks one thing and another person thinks another thing, that doesn't affect what that ultimate truth is.

Based on our own unique experiences we define what we believe that ultimate truth to be. Some people are right, some people are wrong, and some people haven't given enough thought to what they believe. I love seeing people trying to weigh the evidence and decide what is correct.

Thank you for openly sharing what you personally believe to be true. Keep searching for absolute truth. It may not be possible to figure everything out, but in discussing it we all gain a clearer understanding as to what that is because our own beliefs are called into question and we have to examine them to see if they are true.

^ I'd say that's a nice conclusion to a good topic.

To those who believe, what made god, and how or why did he make us?

... quoting "The Nature of God" by Arthur W. Pink:

"In the beginning God" (Genesis 1:1) There was a time, if "time" it could be called, when God, in the unity of His nature (though subsisting equally in three Persons), dwelt all alone. "In the beginning God." There was no heaven where His glory is now manifested. There was no earth to engage His attention. There were no angels to sing His praises. There was no universe to be upheld by the word of His power. There was nothing, no one, but God; and that not for a day, a year, or an age, but "from everlasting." During a past eternity God was alone---Self-contained, self-sufficient, in need of nothing. Had a universe, or angels, or humans been necessary to Him in any way, they also would have been called into existence from all eternity.

off topic: so, "religion" is a big part of who i am. whY do YoU have such a problem with it?

I don't believe in god but asking like 'who/what made god and why?' is bullshit.
Not believing in any godness, will proabably make you believe in evolution (Darwin) and the Big Bang Theory (the theory, not the show which is awesome btw).
To those I ask;
What made the Big Bang and why did it occur?

I don't believe in god but I still have a lot of doubts on science, almost as many as I have in the bible.

NO OFFENCE!

Why the fuck would you bump this shit...

We still haven't had enough of these discussions!

Why the fuck would you bump this shit...

These things seem to coincide with bi-monthly relapses. Although there is no mention of it in the bible nor is there actual scientific proof.

[insert "spamshit" here]

In other news, does anyone know where I can listen to/download the song "Flowers of Love" by Bill Monroe, its apparently not on YouTube or any major listening/watching site.

On topic: Calm down, Michael, I haven't posted on NE in a long time, and its been an even longer time since I posted anything psychotic.

I don't believe in god but asking like 'who/what made god and why?' is bullshit.
Not believing in any godness, will proabably make you believe in evolution (Darwin) and the Big Bang Theory (the theory, not the show which is awesome btw).
To those I ask;
What made the Big Bang and why did it occur?

I don't believe in god but I still have a lot of doubts on science, almost as many as I have in the bible.

NO OFFENCE!

Thanks for adding to the discussion.

Why the fuck would you bump this shit...

You can never exhaust the topic of 'God'.

...

No, we clearly have. You're only repeating yourself at this point.

If this has not been brought up, I have a small point regarding the "God is a jerk" commenteering.

Let's consider a universe in which God is real (the only kind of universe in which He could be a jerk).

As God invented and created everything in that Universe (by definition), He has the right to do whatever He wants to, and the laws He makes for His people do not apply to Him.

A comparison would be if you borrow someone's TV. You do not have the right to run a sword through it. On the other hand, the person who owns it does. In a similar way, God may dictate that you may not murder people. That does not mean that He, the Creator of those people, has to obey those laws.

Another analogy could be found in games like the Sims. Are you a jerk if you kill the sims, or do mean things to them? No, because you are above the sims. God, likewise, is above us, but even moreso than we are above sims.

So if your argument against God is that He is a jerk, I would argue that is a flawed argument in my opinion.

If you have other reasons, they may be valid.

</spamshit>


p.s.
In other news, does anyone know where I can listen to/download the song "Flowers of Love" by Bill Monroe, its apparently not on YouTube or any major listening/watching site.

^I completely agree with you.

I mean, I don't believe in religion. I don't need arguments because it's a belief.
People trying to convince people to their beliefs shouldn't come with bad arguments.
Let people believe what they want to believe, though that doesn't mean you have to accept what they think.

Hasa Diga Eebowai, that's a good way to sum it all up.

^I praise to you.

loooooooooooooool