General Chat / Obama Elected President

JiMeMo: You quoted Karl Marx, who I used to be convinced was the devil incarnate. I hate you.

I'd just like to bring this back up. Care to explain?

Because I'm seeing it as you combining an economic theory that you don't like with your religion, and while I'm not that knowledgable on Marx, that seems pretty back asswards. you really need to give up on this whole "anything I [the people who have brainwashed me] disagree with is the devil, and I hate and demonize everyone who agrees with them."

He brought up a relevant quote, and you hate him for it. I guess I could bring up something about Jesus' preachings of love, but why waste my time?

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Someone disagrees with me? He must be evil!

Seriously, I'm not a communist but every communist government so far has been a dictatorship in disguise. He an an idea, that doesn't make him evil.

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No, you never said I was evil, I'm trying to say Karl Marx wasn't evil. He was trying to help mankind.

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Inventing communism was probably the worst thing anyone ever did for mankind, except Adam eating the Apple/Fruit, and maybe Stalin. So either Marx was evil and pretendng to want to help people under a guise, or he was the single most ignorant and stuid person who ever lived.

No.

Implementing communism, in the form chosen by the Soviet Union, was one of the worst things done in human history.

Marx's communism was an ideal. A society with no real limitations, that provides for everyone, where no one oppresses another. Where everyone works to provide for the good of the people as a whole.

Unfortunately, like all ideals, it cannot actually be implemented. When the Soviets tried anyway, the Communist Party became a totalitarian regime.

Communism as you see it is a mockery of Marx's ideal. Don't judge the man on Lenin's stupidity.

-ACE

If you want to get technical, the breed of communism that started in the Soviet Union, was by definition Leninism (there was actually a rival group of communists before Lenin took over). Stalin also had his own ideas, which we can accurately call Stalinism (which basically meant he was infallible).

Further the Soviet Union was in no position to actually have communism, as Marx believed it would happen naturally in an industrialized nation.

But yes, the problem with Communism is that people will not willingly accept the freedom (or put another way, they cant handle it..) that comes with its truest form, and will exploit everyone else.

Inventing communism was probably the worst thing anyone ever did for mankind, except Adam eating the Apple/Fruit, and maybe Stalin. So either Marx was evil and pretendng to want to help people under a guise, or he was the single most ignorant and stuid person who ever lived.

Adam and Eve is a fairy tale that suggests humans are incestual creatures. Not to mention how misguided it is... Humans need a challenge to progress, really. Without feeling challenged, you become bored, complacent, depressed. Think about some night you couldn't find anything on TV, and how shitty you felt. Do you think this was because Adam and Eve cast you into a world of suffering by eating an apple? Living in a world where everything is provided for you is a horrible way to live.


You still haven't explained to me why communism and Marx are so awful and evil. Keep in mind that Marxism has never truelly been implemented in the Soviet Union and China, as others have already suggested. And how you can call him more evil than Hitler and Anne Coulter is beyond me...

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The reason pure Marxist idealist non-Stalinist communism (the kind the communists you meet in real life always talk about) is evil is this: It destroys fundamental human rigths, namely, liberty, property, the PURSUIT of happiness. You need freedom. MA you said a bit of it yourself: "Living in a world where everything is provided for you is a horrible way to live." Under communism, you do the work, you get the food. I thought all this was self-evident, but I guess not.

"From each according to his ability, to each according to his need." This may the most evil thing ever spoken by a human being, ever. Just typing the quote made me literally need to throw up.

Wow.

I honestly don't know what to tell you, Kevin.

How is abolishing poverty evil? How is it evil for every member of society to be productive and useful? How is it evil to ensure that no one goes hungry?

You can argue the practicality of it. But I think calling it the most evil thing ever written is ridiculous.

-ACE

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How is destroying liberty NOT evil?

Yeah well people have been much better than Marx at that.

How is destroying liberty NOT evil?

The ends damn well NEVER justify the means.

Bend your head around this: Communism is not about destroying liberty.

Communism is an economic system. If you would actually do some research before calling Marx the devil, you might know this.

Liberties -- freedom of speech, religion, etc. are all unaffected in the ideal implementation. All communism demands of you is that you work. That's all. Just to be a productive member of society.

Which, incidentally, is required in every damn economic system known to man.

-ACE

what Kevin doesn't realize is that his idea of "liberty" is that certain people are privileged while others are stuck in poverty and will never get out of their low socioeconomic status due to the policies and laws put forth in our capitalistic economy used to keep the rich, wealthy and the poor, impoverished. We don't have liberty in America. T
I'm going to guess that Kevin is a heterosexual, white male. Being at the top of the privilege ladder makes it very hard to see the inequality around them.

The ideas of socialism and communism look good on paper. It's about a utopia where everyone can live comfortably without inequality. I wish you actually knew more about Marx's theoretical work about communism. His idea was that the law waged, working class would eventually get so sick and tired of being treated like crap that they would overtake the bourgeois (that's the rich folks) and create a classless system. Everyone would work together to make a socialist economy where everything was equal. And just for you Kevin, another Marx quote...
“From each, according to his ability; to each, according to his need”

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Well if you don't have a choice either way, then the only thing you are complaining about is the words themselves.

On the issue of communism: It's an economic system like ACE said. The idea is that every member of society gets his fair share. It appealed to the working class, which was--and still is--a large portion of the population. This is strictly my own opinion, but I think that Kevin has been brainwashed by Western culture. He's probably been raised by parents who were products of the Cold War, and therefore, all he knows is that communism is evil because that's what his parents taught him. If you're going to call communism evil, then I'm going to call capitalism evil. The basic idea of capitalism is that the government isn't supposed to get involved with the economy. The Sherman Anti-Trust act basically blew capitalism out of the water by making monopolies illegal. But still we have greedy fuckers in all corners of this country who care only about making more and more money. I'll admit that I have my share of greed, but buying lavish mansions and expensive yachts never crosses my mind. I want enough money to make me happy. I want enough money to pay for my basic neccesities, for medical coverage and insurance, etc. I want enough money so that I can afford to buy a Frostee from Wendy's whenever I feel like. I want enough money to travel to every amusement park in the country. Some of those things I can do without, but there are some people who just can't get enough, and that's where capitalism goes sour. It's a system built on greed, which, if my knowledge of the scriptures is correct, is the root of all evil. Therefore, capitalism has to be more evil than communism.


On the order of religion: It was Eve who "plucked the apple", and then ate it. Then she gave it to Adam and he ate it. I know this because I just started reading the bible. Not because I suddenly converted, but because I don't want to seem like an ignorant a-hole. And on a further point, it doesn't say apple. It just says fruit.

"So when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was a delight to the eyes, and that the tree was to be desired to make one wise, she took of its fruit and ate; and she also gave some to her husband, and he ate." Genesis 3:6

lol, most Christians haven't read the bible.

But really, Capitalism and Socialism are both equally bad. Certain aspects of each should be incorporated depending on the country's status.

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