General Chat / Obama Elected President

Kevin, I'm not going to bother actually quoting you, because that was the most poorly constructed attempt at explanation I've ever read.

Anyway, you seem to be missing the point of scaled tax rates. Let's go with your example of a flat rate of 10%:

Fast-Food Tom, who earns minimum wage, makes about $266 a week. The tax he pays weekly would be $26, leaving him with $240 to cover food (~$150/week, depending on size of the household), gas (~$60/week.) Oh, looks like Fast-Food Tom has nothing left to save. Or pay utilities, medical bills, etc. with.

Now, Corporate-CEO Fred makes, say, $180,000 a week. His weekly tax payment: $18,000, leaving him with $102,000. Since covering his bills is easy, this leaves him with a large amount of money that he's capable of sitting on for as long as he wants.

So, your flat rate drives Fast-Food Tom further into poverty (as he's now in debt to cover his bills) while inflating Corporate-CEO Fred's nest egg.

Now, if you lower the tax rate for those who earn less. (Let's say Fast-Food Tom has to pay 5%, leaving him with $13 more to save towards unexpected expenses.) Then let's tax higher-earning people more -- because while they're sitting on their money, it isn't doing anything useful. (Tax Corporate-CEO Fred, oh, 30% -- he pays another $36,000 a week, but it doesn't really effect him much.)

See, the thing you have to realize, Kevin, is that economics have to work in the real world, not just on paper.

-ACE

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Kevin, The rich are taxed more because of necessity. you can't really take much out of someone making less than 20k a year and expect them to live healthfully.

If someone can't live happily on more than a $million, then they've got problems.

And really, it's not a question of jealousy. How can I expect someone with 12 houses to represent me, the guy with 0 houses, working 3 jobs and gambling my financial future angainst huge student loans? The simple answer, I can't.

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You'll learn to be a lot more happy when you stop attributing happiness to objects in your life. The problem you and our greedy fuck friends that just need that one more million have is that it's never enough. When you have your Yacht, you'll notice your richer friend with the bigger one, or 2 bigger ones, and now you'll suddenly be unhappy.

I'm not going into psychology for the money. Also, you would be quite envious of the name that's going on my business card, Kev.

When you have your Yacht, you'll notice your richer friend with the bigger one, or 2 bigger ones, and now you'll suddenly be unhappy

I Agree

Punishing the rich for being rich is fucked up bullshit

I Don't Agree, Rich people suck, all the rich people ive ever met are snobby stuck up assholes who care about nobody but themselves
Example: i was trick or treating bout' 4 years ago and i decided to go to the Brodmoor(the mansion land or watever you wanto callit near my house) i figured more money-more candy right? WRONG? only a few houses had candy , 1 house gave out ONE dum-dum to each kid, ONE FUCKING LOLYPOP?!?! i went to this one stuck up bastards house and he said go away. What the Fuck?!

Another time i was in a park downtown and i needed 10cents more to buy an icecream cone from an icecream truck, i asked the closest people,(a lady & a guy who were al dresed up in fancy rich clothes) for a dime, they said get a job. (mind you i was 9 at the time)

Edited by marsh, 29 September 2008 - 09:50 PM.

Abolish income tax. Increase sales tax to like 40%... Rich people still spend more... Poor people can attempt to SAVE money to get out of debt.

Kevin... With the increased cost of everything in this country over the last two years, I've gone from having an extra $200-300 a month in spending money to being short $100-200 a month in paying bills. (And I'm making more than I was a year ago)... That's why the rich get taxed more than the poor...

And you have absolutely no idea how much it costs to run a country. $600 billion is barely enough to support our public workers (emergency workers, public officials, education... and in Canada's case, public health care)

www.fairtax.org

material possessions are not everything my friend. i find it really sad that some people never come to realize this.
it's definitely not that i'm jealous of the rich; the day that i become rich by choice is the day that the world ends. i just simply find that having more money than you actually need (not talking about SAVING money here, talking about having millions of extra dollars with nothing to do but spend it) is immoral - it's a clear sign that you care about nobody but yourself.

seriously, the rich need to take a look around once in a while. if they can TRULY say that the poverty that they see (i live in a town of 18,000 people and i still see it - trust me, it's not that scarce) every day is okay just because they have all the money they'll ever need (and more!).. that's immoral.

and yes, there are philanthropists and blahblahblah, but we all know they keep the bulk of their funds for themselves anyways. having that much money and not feeling guilty it is like a big 'fuck you' to the rest of soceity. not something that is good, my friends.

EDIT: also, ACE, that quote about economics working only in the real world and not on paper: brilliant.

Edited by thorpedo, 30 September 2008 - 07:50 AM.

http://www.youtube.c...h?v=C4egXbhSOhk

Mickey Mouse for President.

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The average working US American made $26k in 2007.

In 2007 the US spent $250 BILLION on the national debt.

In 2007 the US spent $550 BILLION on national defense contracts.

These came out of a tax-funded 2.7 TRILLION dollar budget.

Those taxes came out of $13,800 BILLION dollar total income. (nearly 14 Quadrillion dollars)

Edited by Maverick, 30 September 2008 - 06:30 PM.

My brother had a job at 9. I didn't because I pulled a "poor socialist" and was lazy for a few years, so my little brother is now more money than me, it's fucking humiliatng.

Not sure what the labor laws in Canada are, but in the US, hiring a nine-year old is child labor, and highly illegal. (Exemptions for family-run businesses only, IIRC.)

"Having extra money is immoral." -People, we are dealing with a communist here and should be on guard.

Nice job of missing the point. Having money is not immoral -- having money, seeing those who have nothing and saying "oh, well, that doesn't matter, *I* have money" is immoral.

Economics SHOULD work in reality and be EHTICAL on paper, i.e., don't take a higher PERCENT from someone.

Why shouldn't it be ethical in reality? And taking a higher percent from someone who earns an excessive amount *is* ethical.

-ACE

The poor are supported by government funding.

The government is supported by taxpayers (middle class to rich)

The rich are supported by the spenders (middle class are the numerically largest spenders)

The middle class is suffering the most in the current economic situation.

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I am thoroughly enjoying this. It reminds me of my philosophy class, which, despite having nothing to do with the *natural* sciences and being full of talk from liberals and socialists who happen to be friends so it's cool anyways, was probably the best high school class ever.

I didn't read the rest.

So you spent the entire class thinking that your opinions were better? You realize philosophy is about being open-minded and listening to others, right? Glad you wasted your education on preaching.

Jesus... it's MA...

Anyways, like I was talking with the hot sales lady at Mazda tonight (where everyone is apparantly a nazi), this election is a joke... we're fucked either way and there really is no point in voting. Complete opposite of last election, where I voted for Bush and let my friend who was walking a couple miles to the polls who said she was voting for what's his name...

$2.7tr - Okay, that's the budget.
$13.8tr = income.

Wait, isn't that like $11.1trillion extra dollars? wtFF did they spend that on? They can't have miscalculated THAT bad. Pay off the motherfucking debt with that shit.

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It's true. The poor should be suffering the most; They're the poor. Plus I have heard the middle class is fading. The poor, who are suffering, would then be motivated to become middle-class, or perhaps rich.

It's called rags-to-riches and it's more than a nice story. It can and does happen.

The government doesnt get that $14 billion dollars, thats the income of the working families. The government gets the 2.7 from taxing the working families. Less than 20% on the working-class income. Based on the way the income tax system is structured, that puts the % of dollars going to tax BELOW the average working american's tax bracket.

How is the middle class fading? Unless you mean the gap between top and bottom is getting bigger. Believe me, there are a lot of people motivated to move up... but its all proportional. Our economy is suffering because of a minimum wage increase. Why? Because the RICH needed to keep the cushion between them and the bottom. This pushes up the cost of living, and pushes down the value of the dollar. Suddenly, you're making more dollars per year, but getting less for it. Perhaps you've heard the story "the rich get richer and the poor get poorer"... That's the one you need to be familier with.

The "rags to riches" story you've heard about is more fairy tale than reality. You have to have a lot of luck and a lot of connections. The average try-hard american will NOT get there, because rags-to-riches depends on the rich helping you up.

kevin,

you say that you don't know if it's immoral. you also say that from a christian standpoint it would be immoral.

are you saying that you don't know if you're a christian?

p.s. i'm not a communist. i'm a socialist.