General Chat / Global Warming and alternative fuel.

Soil loss would be the most serious environmental problem today, if not for the hysterics of left/right that promote control of many by relatively few. While Putin and Bush trade barbs on the world stage they both smile in the company of the other, for example, and well they should given how powerful ignorance is.

Most major auto manufacturers have a hydrogen engine (or partnership) in development and are now planning for production lines within the next decade. Several alternative fuels will emerge in the interim and have moderate (local/regional) success but hydrogen is where the major investment is - have a look at what's happening in Iceland, which is becoming a laboratory for a carbon-neutral (future) planet.

Oops - several scientists revised predictions in the past week, climate change has accelerated beyond the radical estimates of the 1980's.

Stop driving dirtbikes!
Discussing about global warming and the fact that we need an alternative to oil, when you are the one who wastes it, sounds totally absurd to me.


I didn't read through all this aswell, as the first part of the text at the very beginning included so many wrong information that I think it is not worth reading it.

Yes, we need an alternative to oil!
It does not have to be cleaner than oil in the first place, because we are running out of oil!
We need to do something about global warming!

But most important, everybody has to step up and stop wasting energy. Turn of the air condition, stop using the car for short trips (i.e. school, shopping ...), turn of the engine while waiting in the car, turn of the lights at daytime, not use standby mode, get a car that needs 1 gallon per mile, which is technically possible ...
Yes it really is that easy. Just do something AND stop driving dirtbikes!

Gwazi, I think you forget we're humans and we're the first species in Earth's history that is able to massively change and adapt the world around itself, unlike every other animal out there. It's not like you see dolphins making sandwiches, do you? (No drug/NFL jokes, please)

That is a good point, but who says we are going to use our ability the right way? We could potentially use it to do more harm to ourselves (and even maybe other species) than good...

I am now even further convinced that natelox is the most intelligent member on this message board. Oh, and you're a moron, woofenskid.

And you're a douche.. Get the fuck out of here if you can't rationally discuss something.

Magnus, The planet's cool, but it's not that cool. I <3 my bikes.

I'll plant some trees or something to offset it.

Edited by woofenskid, 12 April 2008 - 10:56 AM.

And you're a douche.. Get the fuck out of here if you can't rationally discuss something.

Hahaha you're such a cunt.

And you're a douche.. Get the fuck out of here if you can't rationally discuss something.

Magnus, The planet's cool, but it's not that cool. I <3 my bikes.

I'll plant some trees or something to offset it.

Dude, quit while your still behind.

Hopefully the society of the future will be one without cars. If we build more concentrated in urban areas, as opposed to suburban sprawl, public transportation (or one that costs money) will be enough to get us around. I think that we are fully capable of getting ourselves around with light rail trains (electric), buses (many of which are already carbon neutral), and *GASP* maybe even a bit of walking. Or if you want to be really cool you can use one of those segways.

But this will probably happen due to pressure from the car and oil companies and the fact that we would actually have to spend some of our tax money on infrastructure. Got to love capitalism .

Magnus, The planet's cool, but it's not that cool. I <3 my bikes.

We'll see how cool it is when both the Pacific and Atlantic coasts are miles underwater.

H2O cars.

Global Warming. Alternative fuel sources.

Recently, these two phrases have become my favorite synonyms for 'horse crap.' We'll start with alternative fuel sources.

ETHANOL
That's right, ethanol. That fuel we're making out of corn, that stuff the left wing wants you to think is revolutionary technology. I have another name for ethanol, too. Moonshine. That's right folks, ethanol is just a step away from every redneck's favorite beverage. Ethanol is, by definition, 200 proof corn whiskey. Additionally, it's not a new idea... Henry Ford's Model T automobile ran on ethanol.
You may be wondering by now.. "But, DeWayne, don't ethanol powered cars run cleaner?"
Not so. This is only the case if your vehicle was made before 1990, and even then it's not an economically good choice. Ethanol is more expensive to produce than oil, so naturally, it costs more to fill up your vehicle. Another thing you fail to hear about is that ethanol is less efficient than gasoline. If your vehicle gets thirty miles to the gallon with gasoline, it will only get about twenty with ethanol.

Now, let's look at the other wonderful little fun facts about ethanol. Since what I like to call the 'ethanol revolution' the price of corn has skyrocketed. As a result of this, more farmers are using fields that were previously used to plant other crops, such as wheat, and planting more corn. This causes the price of wheat to go up. Since there's now less wheat, and since it's more expensive, there's more demand for it. What do cows eat? Wheat. So since a dairy farmer now has to pay more for wheat and grain, he has to raise the cost of the milk, butter, and whatever other cow product he sells. Now, other foods contain wheat, do they not? Bread costs have gone up, cereal, and countless other food products have increased in price. And for what? A fuel source that is not any more environmentally friendly (unless you drive a '67 pickup) and more expensive.

Now, the fun one. Global warming.
I hate to be the one to tell you this, boys and girls, but global warming is every bit as real as the tooth fairy. Let's go back a bit, shall we? Millions of years ago, there were massive reptiles that were all over this place. Huge, cold-blooded, lizards. I'm going to mention a particular creature that seems quite popular: The Tyrannosaurus Rex. There was a nearly complete T-rex skeleton found a few years ago in Colorado. Think about that. Colorado. When you think of Colorado, what do you see? Denver, with all of it's snowcapped mountains? Or maybe a ski slope? Maybe you think about the Colorado river, or any number of other things that Colorado has to offer. We'll go back to our friend the Tyrannosaur. She was a lizard, was she not? I'll say this again, A large, cold-blooded reptile. This tells me something pretty big. I think about that, and then I think.."well, gee, DeWayne, if she lived there then.. it had to have been a whole lot warmer, didn't it?"
And indeed it was. There is plenty of evidence that says that in the era that the dinosaurs graced this planet that it was far warmer. And then what happened? It got really cold. We call that an 'Ice Age'. Then guess what happened? It got WARM again! It's done this several time since the dinosaurs all kicked the bucket, this warming and cooling.. it's a natural cycle that's happened quite a few times in the past.. all without our help. Now, it's getting really warm again, and once again, we, the human population, have NOTHING to do with it. If we were to blame, this would have been a problem a fifty, seventy five, or even a hundred years ago when there were far more pollutants being released into the air. Viva, industrial revolution. Global warming is nothing more than a scare tactic used by the left wing in order to establish more control over us.

God Bless America, and the freedom we used to have.

Ethanol, like nuclear power, is a stop-gap method that should be expanded into the mainstream temporarily as solar, wind, wave, and other natural power sources are developed. I've never seen Ethanol as a god send.

Oh and global warming is our problem. The reason it didn't become obvious until recently is because the greenhouse effect, believe it or not takes time. The gases we're releasing (CO2, Methane, etc) don't heat the atmosphere at all on their own. The sun heats the ground (not the atmosphere; *gasp*) and those aforementioned gases then prevent the thermal radiation (another word for heat) from escaping the atmosphere. Thus it stays warmer all the time. I can see your argument; however its simply not scientifically sound. Additionally thanks to continental drift the current location of the landmasses on planet Earth are not the same as they were during the Jurassic period; so while areas like Colorado or Antarctica were much warmer other areas were far cooler at the time. Additionally by invoking the dinosaurs as a reason why we shouldn't take action is extremely poor: they're extinct... It seems to me that it's against the better interest of our race to drive humans to extinction.

Now you're going to bring up that it was a meteor that wiped out the dinosaurs. How? Locally by physical destruction, but globally by shrouding out the sun and causing what is essentially the equivalent of a nuclear winter; which in turn caused an ice age. I'm against letting celestial bodies plow into our planet and wipe out our race as well... And I wouldn't call a meteor a part of the "natural cycle" as meteor impacts of that degree are rare, and will only become increasingly so throughout Earths lifespan because they'll get absorbed by other celestial bodies (planets, the sun, each-other: breaking apart into small enough pieces to burn up in our atmosphere without causing any real harm).

I can agree about needing an alternative to oil, what i'm saying is that ethanol is a terrible idea. As for your global warming argument, it sounds to me as though you've just watched and inconvenient lie. It's all bullshit. There is no global warming. I take that back. There IS global warming, but it's NATURAL. Here's another example of leftwing stupidity/control. The common incandescent lightbulb contains a very small amount of mercury. If ingested in large amounts over a period of time, mercury can kill you. Due to this, the left wing is pushing for the incandescent bulb to be done away with and replaced with fluorescent bulbs, which are more expensive and not as efficient.
When was the last time you ate a light bulb?

Fluorescent bulbs are less efficient than incandescent!? Where do you get your information? Incandescent light bulbs generate more heat than they do light. Watt VS. Candlepower Fluorescent are far more efficient and when applied in say an air conditioned environment would save even MORE power.

Oh and I think you've got your argument backwards there anyway: its fluorescent bulbs that contain a trace amount of Mercury and are considered 'hazardous waste'...

Ultimately we're all going to switch to LEDs anyway; they emit no heat and all light and are thus MUCH more efficient.

Hooray for my '87 Blazer!
I completely agree with you here, Woof. Except the industrial revolution part. We're releasing much more toxins into our atmosphere now than we used to. However, there are a number of naturnal disasters (specifically volcanoes) that put tons of toxins into the atmosphere, and they will continue to do this until Earth becomes a dead planet much like Mars. If all the humans on the planet disappeared, Mother Nature would still be killing herself. Through volcanic eruptions and other natural disasters. Global warming and cooling are just Mother Natures mood swings (she's been PMSing for millions of years). There is nothing we can do to stop those mood swings, so we might as well live with it. Or build biodomes where we can control our own weather!

Xin, stop backing people up in arguments; particularly piss poor arguments. It makes you BOTH look even more like idiots.

Closing statement: No Ethanol isn't "the magic solution" it's being marketed as and (more importantly) the only reason to deny the reality of human-caused global warming is a fear of responsibility and a lack of regard for future generations. Congratulations on being immature.

Ride6

hahaha "leftwing control." Woofenskid, if I may so inquire, who did (or would have) you vote for?

edit, with some reasons plz. tia

Edited by tracidEdge, 12 April 2008 - 11:58 PM.

I'm not sure, given the view I have of our current president.
He's kind of dumb.

As for this election, I don't really feel like I have a choice.
None of the candidates seem to be even halfway decent.. I wanted a Guiliani/Romney ticket.

So you wanted to set American politics back into the 1980s only absurd fear of Communism with an absurd fear of Terrorism?

Don't you realize we're at least a decade behind the rest of the "western" world politically.

What I like about his election, particularly if it comes down to McCain Vs. Obama is that we'll have an election of issues, rather than mudslinging; between two candidates who actually genuinely want what they believe is right for this country... Or at least I feel that way about those two more so that almost any other politician (well maybe Ron Paul, but he doesn't have a snowball's prayer in hell).

Ride6

Ron Paul is a crazy fucking old man.

Also why would you like that ticket, woofenskid. I want to hear your reasons for such a terrible administration.

Guiliani turned New York around, and Romney is a businessperson and knows what's what with the economy. So we'de have Rudy, with the experience of running a large place (and quite well) and Romney, with the experience of running a large business.

And Rona Paul is indeed a crazy fuck.

Hillary is.. Well, Hillary.

Obama was a member of a racist, anti american church for twenty years.

and I lived in Arizona, McCain's just fucking bad.

Obama was a member of a racist, anti american church for twenty years.

Not saying I'm an Obama supporter per se, but Woofenskid, this shows you have no clue what you're talking about.

-disneylhand

http://mediamatters....ms/200703010012

How about you look a little before you start throwing out personal insults?

Well first of all it is Fox News. That should be enough to question the story. Hell, you should question a story no matter what its source. Also, the only support of their cult theory is they "refer to themselves as an African people." Is there anything wrong with supporting your heritage? Its not like they believe themselves superior or that they want all others exterminated. Sounds to me like just a bunch of conservatives afraid of a large group of black people.

And by saying Hilary is...Hilary, it seems you are suggesting that since she is woman, no matter what she says is wrong. And therefore you need no other reason not to support her.

And do you realize that Giuliani might have been responsible for bringing New York down in the first place? Yeah, it is getting into those evil 9/11 conspiracy theories, but it has more basis than your argument that Obama was in some racist cult. He made a bulletproof floor in building 7 of the WTC that served as an 'Emergency Response Center'. Only to have it evacuated the day of the attacks, despite it being a perfect place to keep people safe. And then, the building magically collapsed later that day, perhaps he was trying to hide something?

As far as I'm concerned the only difference between any organized religion and a straight up cult is size...

So...

I didn't say I particularly liked Ron Paul, I said I believe he wants what he actually thinks is best for the country... Same for Obama and McCain. Like them or not I think they'll honestly try to do the best job possible rather than believing they're doing the best job possible (Hilary) or simply fucking over the country for they're own political and economic gains (pretty much everyone else).

Ride6

Guiliani turned New York around, and Romney is a businessperson and knows what's what with the economy. So we'de have Rudy, with the experience of running a large place (and quite well) and Romney, with the experience of running a large business.

And Rona Paul is indeed a crazy fuck.

Hillary is.. Well, Hillary.

Obama was a member of a racist, anti american church for twenty years.

and I lived in Arizona, McCain's just fucking bad.

you're really really fucking stupid.