General Chat / Global Warming and alternative fuel.

Global Warming. Alternative fuel sources.

Recently, these two phrases have become my favorite synonyms for 'horse crap.' We'll start with alternative fuel sources.

ETHANOL
That's right, ethanol. That fuel we're making out of corn, that stuff the left wing wants you to think is revolutionary technology. I have another name for ethanol, too. Moonshine. That's right folks, ethanol is just a step away from every redneck's favorite beverage. Ethanol is, by definition, 200 proof corn whiskey. Additionally, it's not a new idea... Henry Ford's Model T automobile ran on ethanol.
You may be wondering by now.. "But, DeWayne, don't ethanol powered cars run cleaner?"
Not so. This is only the case if your vehicle was made before 1990, and even then it's not an economically good choice. Ethanol is more expensive to produce than oil, so naturally, it costs more to fill up your vehicle. Another thing you fail to hear about is that ethanol is less efficient than gasoline. If your vehicle gets thirty miles to the gallon with gasoline, it will only get about twenty with ethanol.

Now, let's look at the other wonderful little fun facts about ethanol. Since what I like to call the 'ethanol revolution' the price of corn has skyrocketed. As a result of this, more farmers are using fields that were previously used to plant other crops, such as wheat, and planting more corn. This causes the price of wheat to go up. Since there's now less wheat, and since it's more expensive, there's more demand for it. What do cows eat? Wheat. So since a dairy farmer now has to pay more for wheat and grain, he has to raise the cost of the milk, butter, and whatever other cow product he sells. Now, other foods contain wheat, do they not? Bread costs have gone up, cereal, and countless other food products have increased in price. And for what? A fuel source that is not any more environmentally friendly (unless you drive a '67 pickup) and more expensive.

Now, the fun one. Global warming.
I hate to be the one to tell you this, boys and girls, but global warming is every bit as real as the tooth fairy. Let's go back a bit, shall we? Millions of years ago, there were massive reptiles that were all over this place. Huge, cold-blooded, lizards. I'm going to mention a particular creature that seems quite popular: The Tyrannosaurus Rex. There was a nearly complete T-rex skeleton found a few years ago in Colorado. Think about that. Colorado. When you think of Colorado, what do you see? Denver, with all of it's snowcapped mountains? Or maybe a ski slope? Maybe you think about the Colorado river, or any number of other things that Colorado has to offer. We'll go back to our friend the Tyrannosaur. She was a lizard, was she not? I'll say this again, A large, cold-blooded reptile. This tells me something pretty big. I think about that, and then I think.."well, gee, DeWayne, if she lived there then.. it had to have been a whole lot warmer, didn't it?"
And indeed it was. There is plenty of evidence that says that in the era that the dinosaurs graced this planet that it was far warmer. And then what happened? It got really cold. We call that an 'Ice Age'. Then guess what happened? It got WARM again! It's done this several time since the dinosaurs all kicked the bucket, this warming and cooling.. it's a natural cycle that's happened quite a few times in the past.. all without our help. Now, it's getting really warm again, and once again, we, the human population, have NOTHING to do with it. If we were to blame, this would have been a problem a fifty, seventy five, or even a hundred years ago when there were far more pollutants being released into the air. Viva, industrial revolution. Global warming is nothing more than a scare tactic used by the left wing in order to establish more control over us.

God Bless America, and the freedom we used to have.

Normally I wouldn't try to argue against such baseless comments, but whatever. You sound like one of those brainwashed kids on Jesus Camp. Ethanol isn't really supposed to be environmentally friendly (or at least I never viewed it as such), it is just simply an alternative fuel. Since oil is a nonrenewable resource, adding ethanol to it increases the lifespan of our oil reserves. Quite honestly I think there are better alternatives to ethanol.

As far as your global warming argument, climate change of course has happened in the past. However, we're perpetuating the normal global warming that would occur because we're changing our atmosphere and environment at an entirely different level than was ever possible before. Also, show me evidence that we aren't emitting more pollutants and CO2 into the atmosphere than during the industrial revolution. The human population has since skyrocketed thanks to said revolution, and it continues--just look at "developing" countries like India and China that are among the United States as the world's largest polluters.

Failing to address global warming seriously is a result of a few things. First off, you're just too lazy to actually change your lifestyle. What do you care? You'll be dead before it's in full swing, right? Well sir, that's awfully selfish, and I have no respect for you. You may not believe it now but you'll likely grow up, marry someone you love, and have kids. It is up to you, now, to preserve this world for your kids. Now I know you'll probably pull the rebel card on me or something, but that's expected.

Secondly you're trying to cover up the truth about global warming because you know it will hurt those dear industries you support. You don't want the oil companies to lose money because people are being SMARTER about their gasoline consumption. In addition we need to help these "struggling" companies out by giving them enormous tax breaks and grants for "research", right?

And what exactly are you talking about the left-wing controlling you? Do you realize right now you are being controlled by oil companies? We are so dependent on oil and it is costing us dearly. The price at the pump continues to increase, and it is YOU that has to pay for that. Meanwhile, the oil companies are raking in BILLIONS of dollars in profits. Is there not something inherently wrong about that? This isn't about the left-wing controlling you. This is about our nation's elite controlling you.

Please, be intelligent and formulate a better argument. Right now it sounds like you just watched a piece on global warming from Fox News.

I can agree about needing an alternative to oil, what i'm saying is that ethanol is a terrible idea. As for your global warming argument, it sounds to me as though you've just watched and inconvenient lie. It's all bullshit. There is no global warming. I take that back. There IS global warming, but it's NATURAL. Here's another example of leftwing stupidity/control. The common incandescent lightbulb contains a very small amount of mercury. If ingested in large amounts over a period of time, mercury can kill you. Due to this, the left wing is pushing for the incandescent bulb to be done away with and replaced with fluorescent bulbs, which are more expensive and not as efficient.
When was the last time you ate a light bulb?

I think you've got it backwards. Fluorescent bulbs have mercury, not incandescent. Also, fluorescent bulbs are in fact more efficient than incandescent. Have you ever wondered why all the lights at your school or in office buildings are fluorescent? They save a lot of money.

Edited by gir, 11 April 2008 - 05:22 PM.

WIND POWERED CARS, FTW!!

since all the rain and stuff the midwest is getting.
there will be good crops this year.
means more ethanol.

i think they should just only make hybrid cars.
considering that there more expensive than regular gas powered.

and anytime the price of oil goes up everything goes up.
people will pay 5 dollars for gas, but they just wont be doing anything else.
they will only use thier cars to go back and forth to work.
its not like were running out of oil anytime soon.

as for global warming...
everybody knows that the planet gets warmer and warmer each year.
the ice caps are melting and the oceans are riseing.
this will only effect people who live in flordia, and other place that are at or below sea level.

but seriously global warming is a serious issue.

Edited by Nokia, 11 April 2008 - 01:50 PM.

woofenskid,

I cannot speak to the facts you mentioned about ethanol, such as its history, efficiency or price. However, your observation about increasing food prices is correct. You neglected to mention, however, the most important disadvantage to ethanol. We are experiencing a significant population boom and we obviously have problems feeding everyone as it is, let alone when we devote what-ever percentage of agricultural land to the growing of plants for fuel. Speaking of oil and food, another scary element of the end of the age of oil, and its steadily increasing cost, is the amount of petro-chemical based insecticides we use to protect our crops from insect devastation.

Global warming happens naturally as you explained. However the problem now is that we are increasing the rate at which global warming occurs. The science is there. To digress, how can our modern, largely secular, or at least skeptic, society so easily reject the findings of scientists when all we believe in now is science? If science cannot prove it, most won't believe it. Science is our religion, it is our reality, it is our belief.

Science aside, there are still skeptics out there such as yourself. We have three choices as humans. First, we can say, "I don't believe in global warming," do nothing, and everything works out because it turned out to be a farce. Second, we can say "I believe in global warming," fix it, and live happily ever after. Finally, we can say "I don't believe in global warming," do nothing, and essentially exterminate the human race. Humans have a unique ability to manifest their environment. Global warming is our de-facto plan. We did not intend for this to happen. So the question becomes, what do we want to happen. What do we want to have? Think about how much better our environment could be if we actually manifested what we wanted.

There are so many other benefits to this new found consciousness. I am an architecture student, so I will speak from that perspective. We reduce global warming by reducing energy use. So we use wind turbines, photovoltaic panels, geothermal, passive ventilation, super-insulated walls and a whole cast of other features. By doing this, we no longer have to pay energy bills or be concerned about losing power in power outages. Our municipal taxes would go down because we no longer require water supply or water or waste discharge. Super insulated walls and windows as well as the more efficient in-floor radiant heating lead to greater thermal comfort in our homes. The whole focus on sustainability which is largely brought on by global warming is giving us a whole new consciousness to our environment. We are cautious about the products we use now. We can reuse our waste as fuel. There are so many benefits! Trying to prove the science wrong seems so inconsequential to all the benefits spawned by a new way of thinking.

Nate,

I agree that it would be far better for everyone to find alternatives to oil, and while I don't believe in global warming so much, I'll agree that the toxins the human race creates does affect the planet in a less than pleasurable way. Look at the aftereffects of DDT. I also agree about the wind tunnels, and the solar power and the like. I'm just not really all that concerned about the natural cycle of the planet. We are due for another ice age in the next few thousand years, so hopefully that one will do the smae as the others and purge the toxins from the planet.

A fuel source that is not any more environmentally friendly (unless you drive a '67 pickup)

Hooray for my '87 Blazer!

Now, the fun one. Global warming.
I hate to be the one to tell you this, boys and girls, but global warming is every bit as real as the tooth fairy. Let's go back a bit, shall we? Millions of years ago, there were massive reptiles that were all over this place. Huge, cold-blooded, lizards. I'm going to mention a particular creature that seems quite popular: The Tyrannosaurus Rex. There was a nearly complete T-rex skeleton found a few years ago in Colorado. Think about that. Colorado. When you think of Colorado, what do you see? Denver, with all of it's snowcapped mountains? Or maybe a ski slope? Maybe you think about the Colorado river, or any number of other things that Colorado has to offer. We'll go back to our friend the Tyrannosaur. She was a lizard, was she not? I'll say this again, A large, cold-blooded reptile. This tells me something pretty big. I think about that, and then I think.."well, gee, DeWayne, if she lived there then.. it had to have been a whole lot warmer, didn't it?"
And indeed it was. There is plenty of evidence that says that in the era that the dinosaurs graced this planet that it was far warmer. And then what happened? It got really cold. We call that an 'Ice Age'. Then guess what happened? It got WARM again! It's done this several time since the dinosaurs all kicked the bucket, this warming and cooling.. it's a natural cycle that's happened quite a few times in the past.. all without our help. Now, it's getting really warm again, and once again, we, the human population, have NOTHING to do with it. If we were to blame, this would have been a problem a fifty, seventy five, or even a hundred years ago when there were far more pollutants being released into the air. Viva, industrial revolution. Global warming is nothing more than a scare tactic used by the left wing in order to establish more control over us.

I completely agree with you here, Woof. Except the industrial revolution part. We're releasing much more toxins into our atmosphere now than we used to. However, there are a number of naturnal disasters (specifically volcanoes) that put tons of toxins into the atmosphere, and they will continue to do this until Earth becomes a dead planet much like Mars. If all the humans on the planet disappeared, Mother Nature would still be killing herself. Through volcanic eruptions and other natural disasters. Global warming and cooling are just Mother Natures mood swings (she's been PMSing for millions of years). There is nothing we can do to stop those mood swings, so we might as well live with it. Or build biodomes where we can control our own weather!

You two need to grow up.

K Im not going to bother reading this whole thread, sorry if I say anything redundant (read the whole first post though).

I agree that ethanol is not a good alternative and possibly be more toxic than combustion of oil, but do you expect us to keep powering our cars with dinosaurs for the rest of eternity? Unless we bury our dead bodies in the soil and wait for us to turn into fossils, its going to run out eventually.

And global warming...yes heating and cooling is a natural cycle. But never before have the gases we are releasing (i mean factories and cars by 'we' ) been put into the air in such large quantities. So the climate will not change naturally, but caused by radiation from the sun being trapped in the atmosphere. Its pretty much undeniable, the gases are being released, its been proven they trap heat (look at Venus), and Earth is getting hotter. Unless you dont believe in science and think god is going to take pity on us or whatever you people believe.

Also, these natural cycles the earth goes through take place over a long period of time (hundreds or thousands of years). The only thing that could really change the temperature is a natural disaster in which the air is contaminated. And it just happens that the earth seems to be getting hotter as we have began to contaminate it. Do you think its a coincidence that the average world temperature has risen significantly as the world has industrialized?

Even if the earth doesn't rise to an uninhabitable temperature, perhaps only 5-10 degrees, millions in less developed areas will still die due to droughts in some areas, more hurricanes in others, rising ocean levels, failed crops, etc. But here in America we could remain largely unaffected with our air conditioned homes, underground bunkers, money to get water and food from the rest of the world. Thats why the majority of politicians, rich, and conservatives will never give a flying fuck about global warming.

well I do agree that ethanol is not any reliable alternative fuel source mostly because of reasons mentioned here but also because severe water shortages in the southern part of the country (and other places in the world) are becoming a reality... food production is down let alone trying to grow extra crops as a fuel source

and your arguments about global warming are so sad that my first post in this topic is the only reply worthy of that

plus the whole "I don't care about the state of the world" argument is so played out anyway... because all it amounts to is willfull ignorance

Concerning the possibility that (if global warming was true) we could exterminate the human race, I just wanted to say we are probably going to go extinct fairly soon anyway.

Look at the graph of human population from the beginning of our species to now. It's a J-curve, and there is an extreme portion of exponential growth in the last 600 or so years; we have over tripled our size. Now look at other population graphs for species who have the same pattern of growth. They all went extinct VERY soon after they reached their peak, which we are nearing ourselves.

I'm not saying "Oh we'll die out in 20 years," but in terms of the Earth's age, I dunno if humans have much longer to live...

lol Just wanted to say that.

Basically, this is global warming. It explains everything. It's a clip from Futurama (don't mind it being in the movie "An Inconvenient Truth- just watch the clip, pay no attention to Al Gore if you hate him so much.)

We "evil left-wingers" are definately not controlling you. If we were controlling you, you would be doing what we say (as if you guys are not controlled by the bible, oil/tobacco companies, etc.). We are urging you to be more aware because it definately is happening.

Gwazi, I think you forget we're humans and we're the first species in Earth's history that is able to massively change and adapt the world around itself, unlike every other animal out there. It's not like you see dolphins making sandwiches, do you? (No drug/NFL jokes, please)

Also, if the US were to move toward ethanol as an alternative fuel, I think most of missed Economics 101. If demand for an item goes up, so will supply (unless it's already maxed out), therefore, price for unit of that item will go down due to more production. It's the basis for mass-production.

And my last counter is of the fact that the US can't feed it's people. Bahahahaha, seriously? Man, we're fat. Hell, we export enormous amount of food to other countries because we have an abundance of it. Why do you think we call the midwest the "bread basket"? And the only reason we don't have enough corn for considerable uses for ethanol is because it's an emerging market. Yes, it's been there for quite a while, but it needs investors to increase its output.

I'm not advocating we use remain ignorant about the world, nor am I saying that I believe in ethanol, I just felt that these words should provide something to ponder. One should consider all the pros and cons in an argument and not go into it with a thick head and only one view.

woofenskid, I don't know where you got this information, but it might be false information. Actually, some people get paid by fuel companies for convincing people that Global Warming is a myth. The information you got might be a lie...

Anyway, I believe that Global Warming does exist, but we don't know how much the human is amplifying the situation.

umm I never said that America is going hungry but drought is a very real thing for many southern states and just the fact that corn could be widely used as an alternative fuel is unrealistic

It wasn't pointed at you, OLE.