Micro Madness / #2 J K vs. #3 Ride6

Oh and Xcoaster when they see that this gets to take yet another twist and more jaws will drop...

Loopy beats Xcoaster?

Emergo, I think that maybe it isn't exactly a new rule, but kind of something thats been here all along. Because if you drop out, then its a forfeit, except that I guess this is different in that the round is over. I think it would have been fair to offer it in other rounds though, as Levis said himself after this round that he had no more time to make parks.

Because if you drop out, then its a forfeit, except that I guess this is different in that the round is over. I think it would have been fair to offer it in other rounds though, as Levis said himself after this round that he had no more time to make parks.

^Now....ehhh...I am sure that is not just "different", but a HUGE difference....a forfeit or having made a winning park and then do if you did not win??? (if that is what you mean?)

Yeah, a lot of people did say after they lost their match: "thanks Opponent, I would not have had time for the next round anyway..."
Will be true for some people, might be keeping up face for others...?we don't know...


Emergo

@Emergo- just want to say that in the MA vs CP6 match, nobody thought MA should have won... just that they were wondering why it was 4-0 (much like this match)

I haven't looked at either yet and I won't post my thoughts until I give each CAREFUL CONSIDERATION in-game. And to anyone who has posted above: if you haven't done that yet, please do so.

I will say that I've had a thought about this whole judging system and about close matches but I haven't been able to say it before now. It's my opinion that maybe in very close matches like this where it could probably go either way judges have been swayed by who gets the foothold (ie- the first one or two votes). Not saying the judges are voting purely based on this but these close matches have ended up as shut-outs enough times to make me wonder. I just can't believe that 4 straight people would vote for only one entry in a match like this without some form of influence (however slight)... especially with the other judges who didn't vote saying they would have gone the other way.

Now maybe I'm way off here and if I am I do apologize but I just can't help thinking there's some common factor here that's turning close matches entry wise into landslides vote wise.

@Emergo- just want to say that in the MA vs CP6 match, nobody thought MA should have won... just that they were wondering why it was 4-0 (much like this match)

I guess I'm a nobody, then. And so are fifteen other people.

Edited by Ge-Ride, 15 January 2008 - 09:56 PM.

I guess I'm a nobody, then. And so are fifteen other people.

most of those 15 said they could see why CP6 won though which is what I based my comment on... and I would say sorry for generalizing too much but the way you said that spins what I said around to make me look like a prick which I don't care for

^^^ Ole:
re-reading that topic CP-MA round2, I see you are right: only 2 or 3 people thinking MA should have won, the rest wondering why it was such a 4-0 sweep.

On your idea that judges would be influenced by the former votes....I don't know if that is true: we cannot see the poll before having voted, although people (have to) post in the topic who they voted for, but still there always is one judge who is allowed to cast his vote without posting (and in general does that as one of the first ones).

I can only speak for myself of course, but I always have my decision ready before I go to the voting, and up til now I never changed what I intended to vote because other judges said they had voted for the other one.....

@Emergo- just want to say that in the MA vs CP6 match, nobody thought MA should have won... just that they were wondering why it was 4-0 (much like this match)

I haven't looked at either yet and I won't post my thoughts until I give each CAREFUL CONSIDERATION in-game. And to anyone who has posted above: if you haven't done that yet, please do so.

I will say that I've had a thought about this whole judging system and about close matches but I haven't been able to say it before now. It's my opinion that maybe in very close matches like this where it could probably go either way judges have been swayed by who gets the foothold (ie- the first one or two votes). Not saying the judges are voting purely based on this but these close matches have ended up as shut-outs enough times to make me wonder. I just can't believe that 4 straight people would vote for only one entry in a match like this without some form of influence (however slight)... especially with the other judges who didn't vote saying they would have gone the other way.

Now maybe I'm way off here and if I am I do apologize but I just can't help thinking there's some common factor here that's turning close matches entry wise into landslides vote wise.

I was thinking that too, the part about the judging. Its understandable, since the stakes are pretty high and you might not want to vote for an entry that others would see as not as good. It makes sense to have 4-0 when there is a clear winner, even if one entry isn't amazing and the other isn't bad. But if judges are allowed to see other's votes, then maybe this shouldn't happen in later rounds. Entries have already been made anonymous, which makes it so there is no question whether or not there was a bias for the higher ranked member. So I think that if it is not already, voting should be made anonymous to take away the question of influence from other judges.

yea... anonymous voting would make a lot of sense... and even voting via PM to eliminate the poll altogether because even seeing something like- Ride6: 2 votes J K: 0 votes- there runs the risk of bias.

And I'll mention my idea of having judges write a couple sentences about why they voted for the entry they did and having the comments posted with the match again since I think that would also really help things imo. People can say that the votes went against their preferences but I doubt anyone could argue with reasonable facts of why judges voted the way they did. One problem is that these 4-0 matches (and really any match) are posted without any explanations of anything... so it's always a big shock and all people can do is speculate.

Yeah no offense to Ride6 and his amazing entry, but the "world above ground with a hidden underground area" theme is getting overused. J K deserves the win here, easily.

I was thinking that too, the part about the judging. Its understandable, since the stakes are pretty high and you might not want to vote for an entry that others would see as not as good. It makes sense to have 4-0 when there is a clear winner, even if one entry isn't amazing and the other isn't bad. But if judges are allowed to see other's votes, then maybe this shouldn't happen in later rounds. Entries have already been made anonymous, which makes it so there is no question whether or not there was a bias for the higher ranked member. So I think that if it is not already, voting should be made anonymous to take away the question of influence from other judges.

Making the votes anonymous, would not be a bad thing as such, although there may be some disadvantages to that also.....

Now everyone can be influenced of course, but I don´t see what's "at stake" so much for the judges.
As far as I know them, all judges that are involved now, are pretty stable, mature people, and I cannot imagine any of them disrespecting someone else just because he/she does have another opinion than he/she himself......so what's there to fear to express your own opinion??
Besides that the first, let's say 2, voters, don't have a clue of what the others after them will vote....

And mind that if people would want to be influenced (out of their own unsureness or whatever), they could always make contact with (an)other judge(s) via pm, mail, chat or whatever......

Remember, whatever you think of to make a system "without any holes", it will never be perfect. This of course does not mean that it is not a good thing to think about how it can be "as good as possible"

What I don't understand very well however, is why this should be such a BIG issue, while there are tons of voting-things in here with which it is overly clear that the voters often have not even seen a park in-game, just vote from a screen, or just vote for their friends, or just parrot their buddies...

Emergo

Sorry to say, but I somehow get the feeling these judges do not know what they are doing.

Kumba, please make sure the next contest do not end like this.
Congrats J K on making a great entry. When you showed a screen I already loved it, but the final result is a lot better than what you showed.

The other entry looks a lot like a park from H2H, I think you also made that one ride6. Not sure why you were going for the same idea again. It didn't work out there and doesn't for me here, even though there are some nice ideas in it.

Um... Other than the glass for the edges of what I didn't really do anything like I did in Below Burmuta.

Yeah no offense to Ride6 and his amazing entry, but the "world above ground with a hidden underground area" theme is getting overused. J K deserves the win here, easily.

It's not "hidden" it's the sewers, from the show. It's a crucial component of the theme!

Ride6

Tick, tock ... tock, tick.

Um... Other than the glass for the edges of what I didn't really do anything like I did in Below Burmuta.

To make this clear, I was just refering to the below water level theming, which you had there and you have here aswell.
This entry is better than what you made for H2H in my opinion, still I totally have to disagree with the result of this matchup.

Magnus

Yeah, real mature post, Levis. I expect better from you, for shame...

...and do they even have Futurama in Holland?

never heared of futurama .

I was just kidding a littie bit.
of course there is a good reason ride6 won, I just loved J K's entry so much .

Congrats bot of you!

Ride6: Haha it's like 2 bedroom parks being released xD... I liked your ideas you had there. Everywhere was something to see, very nicely done. The only thing I didn't like was the robot hell and the things that crashed (like the werecar) All in all it was nice, although I prefered XCoaster's futurama optic more.

J_K: You know my thoughts already. It's a great little park. Maybe it wasn't packed with ideas as much as Ride6's entry, but it was more appealing IMO. The atmosphere was better and that dragon looks just awesome. Nice work man, sorry you lost- but maybe you can concentrate on other things now.

"MFG"

The Werecar, Santa, etc. aren't meant to be opened... I suppose I should've done something to make it impossible to open them though.

w/e

I rushed.

Ride6

Now i've taken a while to look at them both.

ride6 - very very nice. good idea, execution, etc.

JK - achingly beautiful. i'd love to see this turned into a full area from you.

Now i've taken a while to look at them both.

ride6 - very very nice. good idea, execution, etc.

JK - achingly beautiful. i'd love to see this turned into a full area from you.

Thankyou very much. I've always seen a japanese theme as the pinnacle of architecture in RCT. I'm glad you think i pulled it off.

Thanks alot to everyone for the support and everything. Whats done is done but its cool that this match got such mixed reactions.

Also congrats to ride6, the best man won i guess. Hope you do well in the competition.

I was my own worst enemy in the end of this competition, i wanted it too much.

Thanks again guys.

Thankyou very much. I've always seen a japanese theme as the pinnacle of architecture in RCT. I'm glad you think i pulled it off.

Thanks alot to everyone for the support and everything. Whats done is done but its cool that this match got such mixed reactions.

Also congrats to ride6, the best man won i guess. Hope you do well in the competition.

I was my own worst enemy in the end of this competition, i wanted it too much.

Thanks again guys.

The best man? Nah, just the more experienced but sloppier one who made a map that's interesting from all angles. Really that's the only place I beat you. Your architecture was more intricate; your coaster, while certainly not the best, was superior, you actually had landscaping, etc. The difference was in the idea and muilti-angled viewpoints. I've been trying all along to make sure my parks in this competition are interesting; or at least viewable, from every angle, and in this particular case I tried to include details and references that could only been seen from one or two angles and were otherwise blocked out by the buildings or whatever.

Your entry had an almost Coaster Ed like feel to it though, with the refined use of coaster track as theming and architectural elements and the overall depth of the atmosphere. You, J K, have a brighter future in rct than I since I'm probably on my last legs and/or going to have to go lurker and work on a park forever to get a spotlight (which you already have achieved, mindblowing).

Now I have to decide what kind of gimmick, and/or theme, and/or visual trickery to pull of next.

>

Ride6

Again Futurama, J K entry is beatiful, That Dragon head is just Wonderful

Edited by CF, 18 January 2008 - 09:30 AM.