H2H4 / New Rule on Voting.

Starting with the upcoming H2H4 playoffs the voting poll will be added 24 hours after the parks screens, overview and DL are posted.

This change was voted on 5 to 1 by the captains before the season started (take a guess who that 1 was and why it was not used during that season ) so it's not exactly changeing a rule for the hell of it, we decided it was a good idea a long time ago.

With this change people will have lots of time to DL the parks and think about there choice. It was proven that this can make people think harder about there choice a few weeks ago with Ed's park vs X250's.

I hope everyone is happy with this change, I don't see what harm it can do.

I think its a good idea, because as you said, it couldn't hurt to try it.

not a bad thing.
however, i think you could also argue that the more eye-catchy park, while not necessarily the better, is what makes the winner in h2h.
and with this new rule, this kind of "tradition" is broken.

Edited by posix, 04 November 2006 - 01:08 PM.

Seems like a fair rule to me. Not sure if it will change results, but what the heck.

good idea. i think you should have to download the parks before you can vote, though, so you cant vote unless you actually looked at the park.

Thanks man. Glad to see this being carried out.

I should check the forum before saying "post this in the H2H forum" in a PM reply.

No, don´t hink either that it can do any harm.

Just wonder however if people will use the extra time to download/research a park themselves, or just use the extra time to parrot even more the comments of their "admired" players/parkmakers/commenters.......

Sorry, but that's what I think that happened with Ed's park and X250's a few weeks ago: obviously many people had voted without thinking/researching/being able to recognize quality, but afterwards were so impressed by the convincing words of a good parkmaker about his own park, (or of some about someone´s oher park) and with a good writing-ability, that they must have felt themselves complete Noobs by not voting for the "right" park......and so called "changed their mind" in the poll for the best park of that week afterwards.....(No offense please, Ed, X250, for your parks were really great no doubt and deserved a win!!! and it was a kind of shame that they did not get it!, so that's not the question here..)

Only, now there's more time to download and view (which is a good thing!), and also more time to get influenced by the parkmakers or teammates that are not inhibited by promoting - righteously or scandalously---just Like the Bushes in this world--- their own (or their own team-) parks and have the convincing speaches that impress the beginners.

Not a bad thing as such, for it can point out all kind of things that otherwise would be overlooked easily, but a bit silly also... like in the elections...may happen that the ones that can influence with words are more apt to win by the votes of the innocent ones , not on the contents, but just because of their extra engagement to put in their convincing/demagogic texts......
And as most people cannot think/see indepently (yet), they will always be impressed mostly by the words of the "established" ones. So will be the "noobs" here......

Not a bad thing necessarily, but not either "teaching"/"boosting up quality-conscience" to people to make up their own mind in a public poll, and neither making the votes more "honestly" balanced.(and thereby on the other end accepting ripe and green).
Imo the new "delay" will result in votings just as biassed as they were before, only in another way, (more favourable to "established parkmakers" here , again, does not have to be a bad thing, just a bit silly in the light of the intention this contest pretends to have...)
If you don't like the way "the public" votes - innocently, just on looks or simple principles- , then don't make it a public choice I would say, but make it an exclusive one to the "established" ones, like the PT, but up till now that has not been the intention of H2H.....

If I think about it, the delay could be very promising if at the same time it was "forbidden" to the ones that made the parks (or their teammates) to comment on it until the voting is closed......thereby assuring/sollicitating a tiny bit more that people will have to judge on their own likings/judgement (whatever they are, but....eh, ...it's a public contest, isn't it? and not the elections.......)
And if you want to influence/teach them then, like I said before, make it another kind of contest I would say.

Or just accept that people - beginners as well as more experienced ones- vote according to their own likings. but then don't mock about their choices even if they seem hard to swallow, which for me sometimes they are... , but still, that's all in the game, that's all in the contest in how it's set up and a 24 hour delay won't change that at all....at least not in the way of being biassed/innocent/studying-exploring more of the parks...
that's pure nonsense... people who now vote without having seen/explored the park, will do exactly the same even when they have to wait 24, or 48 hours before voting.... unless in the meantime of course they have been influenced/impressed by the good talkers/advertisers....for the better or for the worse....

Whatever, we'll see and learn from it for the next time I think, ...

Regarding week 6, I don't really think that waiting a few days to start the poll would have changed the voting outcome much. Most people look at something and make up their minds pretty quickly. Some people would use that extra time to view the parks again and really think out which they feel deserves the vote more. Those are the same types of people who have been judging NE contests in the past, and commenting on parks for a long time so it's no coincidence that they know how to judge parks and are going to take their time to make sure they do it right. Those are the people who sometimes post first that they're still undecided, and then vote later. As for everyone else, I think they'll just wait out the extra period and then vote the way they were going to.

How about this -- put up a straight poll and links to the competing parks. No overview maps, no pictures, no running commentary. Run it like a straight closed-ballot election. No one is allowed to make comments about the parks, say which they voted for, know who the parkmakers are, or post any screens until the voting is over. Then post the overview screens and such on the H2H page when you reveal who won. Then there's no opportunity for anyone to be influenced by anything other than what they see in the park itself.

That's really the most fair and objective way to do it. But then isn't the running commentary half the point anyway? Taking that out would take all the fun out of it. That's probably why I have such a hard time keeping my mouth shut about these things. I work so hard on something for so long and don't show it to anyone and then finally I release it and I'm not allowed to comment on it. It's hard to do. And by the time the poll is over, no one cares anymore. I wrote an 11 page pdf file explaining everything in the park with lots of pictures included that I used for inspiration and I posted it along with an updated version of the park. Know how many comments I got after doing that? Not a one.

For my own sake, the next time I release a H2H park I'm going to take a little vacation from NE until the voting is over. Because I can't stay out of it. I can't not care. Since I usually comment so much, I was always worried that if people see me not commenting, they'll suspect it's mine. I thought maybe I could post some generic comments like I usually do and no one will know the difference....So, yeah, I'm not a very good liar.

I think it was pretty obvious who did our park week6 considering we really only have 1 major LL player.

Edited by geewhzz, 05 November 2006 - 08:44 PM.

Regarding week 6, I don't really think that waiting a few days to start the poll would have changed the voting outcome much. Most people look at something and make up their minds pretty quickly. Some people would use that extra time to view the parks again and really think out which they feel deserves the vote more. Those are the same types of people who have been judging NE contests in the past, and commenting on parks for a long time so it's no coincidence that they know how to judge parks and are going to take their time to make sure they do it right. Those are the people who sometimes post first that they're still undecided, and then vote later. As for everyone else, I think they'll just wait out the extra period and then vote the way they were going to.

How about this -- put up a straight poll and links to the competing parks. No overview maps, no pictures, no running commentary. Run it like a straight closed-ballot election. No one is allowed to make comments about the parks, say which they voted for, know who the parkmakers are, or post any screens until the voting is over. Then post the overview screens and such on the H2H page when you reveal who won. Then there's no opportunity for anyone to be influenced by anything other than what they see in the park itself.

That's really the most fair and objective way to do it. But then isn't the running commentary half the point anyway? Taking that out would take all the fun out of it. That's probably why I have such a hard time keeping my mouth shut about these things. I work so hard on something for so long and don't show it to anyone and then finally I release it and I'm not allowed to comment on it. It's hard to do. And by the time the poll is over, no one cares anymore. I wrote an 11 page pdf file explaining everything in the park with lots of pictures included that I used for inspiration and I posted it along with an updated version of the park. Know how many comments I got after doing that? Not a one.

Good points!

Can only agree: what you say in the 2nd alinea would imo certainly make the votings far more "fair" and "objective", and really be a great step further.

And with what you say in the 3rd one: you are right also....the commenting is at least half of the fun!
I have also been biting the tip of my tongue when I read comments that were so unjustified/stupid/ reflecting the comment of someone that had not seen/explored the park in any way, and wanting to give background-information etc.....(whether on my own parks or those of others from my team). But I bit my tongue when it was a park of my team/myself, with just one exception on a team's park. Maybe I am just jealous that you could do that, the commenting, -righteously so- on your own park and get away with it, even if it is "against the rules".
Still, I fully agree with you: the comments are half of the fun when you've worked so hard on a park, so taking away these possible comments would be a very great loss also....

So, what could be the ideal solution...? no idea....

Maybe voting, in the way you suggested, and after that asking anyone to comment and tell them that their vote won't count if they do not "validate" it by an explanation afterwards?
Too much work I guess....

So it won't be solved easily and never perfectly....

People, it's good as it is. If the wrong park loses you should have made it better.

Edited by Evil WME, 08 November 2006 - 05:25 AM.