H2H4 / Week 6: Strangelove vs Ferocious Tigers

And that's what's so sad... post those screens and all of a sudden people change their mind.

Don't know if in this case it is "sad" (still cannot vote here as I cannot see LL at the moment and I refuse to vote on screens alone....)
Yes, In general it is "sad" when you experience that many people who know next-to-nothing about a certain subject bring out a vote based on nothing else than an easy and cheap impression/idea/influence...
But also....that are the fundamentals of "democracy", aren't they.... ?
And I guess that that is the principle idea of this contest.....democracy, so anyone (at least registered) may vote.....has it's great advantages,...has it's great drawbacks......

but maybe if it "enlivens" votings/discussion it is a good thing that members (not involved in H2H themselves maybe?) do post extra screens of the parks that are still put up for voting ? If that's so, then let's go ahead everyone and try to influence voting by extra screens for the park you favour.
So that the ones that don't take the time/effort or don't have the possibility to view the parks themselves can still get a better impression/more influence and it'll make voting "easier" to them?
And so that for the ones that do have knowledge and take effort to judge the whole thing it gets more interesting even...

I just don't know...... (but thanks for putting them up anyway, Ed, lovely screens and I enjoyed them...)

Edited by Emergo, 30 August 2006 - 03:45 PM.

Do you have some other suggestion for how half the people at this site are going to see the park? I think it looks 10x better in the game than it does in the screenshots. You dont even know which parts are animated in the screenshots. If anything it's unfair to the LL park. I have no problem with you posting screens of the RCT2 park -- but then I haven't seen anyone complaining about not being able to see it either.

PS - I don't think those 6 votes are going to matter in the end anyway.

with all respect, ed, extra screens of my park got deleted, so it's only fair that your team's park's are as well. i don't know about the link, though.

and to any of you fuckers who think i'm just trying to make my team win, i voted for kd.

edit

Then why they made it bare when they could pull off a nice foliage? Or they could just put rocks? Foliage is the most inportant thing in LL in my opinion. Or is there an episode that miss on the bare terrain?

did you honestly just say that? why the fuck would foliage be more important than coasters, or theming, or ANYTHING for that matter? and why is it the most important thing in LL? why is something (like FOLIAGE, especially) more improtant in ll than rct2? because there aren't pretty little base blocks to build shit out of? fuck you, man.
it's ignorant fucking statements like these that really get on my nerves.

Edited by tracidEdge, 30 August 2006 - 03:50 PM.

I got to admit this will be a painful lose Ed and it will probabply be coz the park is LL. I don't think posting screens is the right thing to do, but it sure did prove your point being you have ran off 9 votes to 0 since then.

I tried to get a rule changed in the pre season that the poll would not go up till 24 hours after the DL's so people would have time to look at the parks in-game and decide without being able to vote right away, but even tho me and 4 other captains agreed it was the best thing to do the poll stayed as it's always been.

If it makes you fell better you'll get my vote for park of the week Ed *runs*

After seeing those I still think I'd vote MK to be honest. And Ed, I respect your work (It looks great and I've always enjoyed your parks) but I really think it's rediculous to say that votes going to your park after posting screens solely shows the lack of LL owners factor. The same would have occured in the opposite way if many little things screenies were posted for MK. Though it is a shame that some people vote for a park when they can't se both of the parks involved.

So you are saying that if it looks unfinished then it isn't good? And maybe they didn't want to do the same old thing. Ever think of that??

I just don't get it. Some people don't like it because they think it's the same old thing and some don't like it because it's too different for them.

Hey, I never said that it was the worst LL park ever, it is still an amazing park but weaker than the other one. If they pulled off foliage, then it would get my vote, I don't mind if it is looking like some precedent parks (I don't think there is that much of dragons made in LL).

Yeah, but you're looking at it like it HAS to have foliage. And saying foliage is the best part of LL is just really stupid.

After seeing those I still think I'd vote MK to be honest. And Ed, I respect your work (It looks great and I've always enjoyed your parks) but I really think it's rediculous to say that votes going to your park after posting screens solely shows the lack of LL owners factor. The same would have occured in the opposite way if many little things screenies were posted for MK. Though it is a shame that some people vote for a park when they can't se both of the parks involved.

Do you really think the same thing would have happened? It's not like I zoomed in or anything or cropped the pictures or cut it off where there was something ugly -- that's just what the park looks like in the game. That's the same thing people would have seen if they opened it in LL. I didn't say it solely showed the lack of LL owners, and I've never suggested people vote on the basis of screens -- I'd prefer they actually watch the rides. The way a ride moves is at least a simportant as the way it looks. But do you have a better explanation why the RCT2 park would be consistently 10 votes ahead the whole time and then when there's some LL screens, the vote pulls to almost a tie? I wasn't even trying to influence the vote. Like I said before, the round was already over. No one else was voting. I just wanted people to actually see the park and then tell me how crappy it is. I can deal with that. But I have a hard time dealing with it when people obviously haven't even seen it. You in particular who decided to rant about how LL parks are only worth a damn if they're original without having even seen the park.

Whoa, here I was about to call the match and then I notice it's 45-42!!!

Then I notice the screens.

Ed, I'm trying to remember the last time you managed to keep your cover on a park you worked on. It hasn't happened yet. And this goes back to H2H2 as well!



FINAL SCORE:

Strangelove: 44
Ferocious Tigers 42

If it was this score right now but Ed had not posted screens, I would have left this open, but as it is, we have to be consistent, and I can't just assume that Ed's screens didn't give him 7 or 8 extra votes (or more).



Mamba Kilima was made by X250 and chapelz

Kitabasaki Dragonland was made by CoasterEd, obviously.

That's fine Cork. I would have forfeited anyway if it became an issue. We all know those votes wouldn't be there if I hadn't posted screens. But I still don't think that makes the screens unfair. But rules are rules, I can agree to that. I'll take the moral victory. And I don't see where you got 45 votes, it says 44.

44, I mean... yeah, I had a Kumba moment there...

You know, I had a lot more that I wanted to say but wasn't saying only because it was supposed to be anonymous. I was going to wait until it was over to post the screens but since nobody voted for at least 24 hours, I thought I'd conduct a little experiment.

...which is why I had no qualms declaring ride6's team the winner.


Plus I really didn't want to see what happened if they'd lost another close one. I've got a sneaking suspicion we would have heard about some supermarket gun rampage carried out some whack kid shouting RCT STRANGELOVE over and over again.

ok now that it is over i can say i honestly feel bad about this win though i guess it's just karma after our week one park but even that couldn't touch KD. KD definitely has best losing park locked. congrats to ed for making one hell of a park. and yeah i think we all would have just said fuck it if we had lost this week

Edited by chapelz, 30 August 2006 - 05:02 PM.

Congrats Ed!


Even though it is the second time a RCT2 park completely robbed you.

That's fine Cork. I would have forfeited anyway if it became an issue. We all know those votes wouldn't be there if I hadn't posted screens. But I still don't think that makes the screens unfair. But rules are rules, I can agree to that. I'll take the moral victory. And I don't see where you got 45 votes, it says 44.

i think it's more of a fact that they're trying to encourage people to download the parks and vote, rather than vote based on screens.

Then why post an overview and screenshots with the announcement of the round to begin with? It defeats the purpose of trying to get people to open the parks in the game. Not to mention it is always an unfair advantage when the round is LL versus RCT2 (as proven time and time again).

because smaller screens and an overview don't show detail and entice the person to download and explore the details and stuff.
or something along those lines.

But you notice what I did not do, I did not post a review of my park pointing out how cool it all is. I didn't even comment on the screens, I just posted them so people can make up their own mind. I think the screens are less unfair personally than "reviewing" your own park, which seems to be what everyone else does around here.

In response to Mama Bear, you said "I feel hacking and the use of regular features of the game ought to be in balance and I don't find that in this park. If you leave out the "tricks" so to speak you are left with a rather monotonous, only close to average use of the regular RCT1 features." See but that was exactly the point of the park! There is no line between hacking and normal features, I hacked everything. If you remove the hacked parts, you're left with an empty map! That's what's so great about the codex trainer. It's so useful you can build the whole park with it. And that's a lot like Panic saying that the buildings are pretty bad if you remove all the coaster track parts of them. I'm trying to make a good park, not a good park that is still good when you remove all the hacking parts. I think the landscaping is better than average personally, but that's subjective. I also like the foliage, especially around the entrance, but that's also subjective. Wall textures are important if that's what you're using for architecture. They're decidedly less so when you use rides to make your structures instead. And I don't see why you would use the word monotonous. Because there's too much grass? I didn't want to throw in a bunch of other textures there or the whole thing would look like a jumbled mess. With all the hacking and sculptures in there I needed the background landscape to be fairly simple. That was the choice I made. There's also another reason...

For all the people who said it looked rushed, that's cause it was. Or at least the foliage part of it was. I spent so much time hacking, making all the "cool parts" and everything that I ran out of time to place all the trees. I do that part last now because it's the one thing that hasn't changed much since 1999. The trees and bushes are still the same. I can do that part in my sleep. I did all of Cajamarca's trees in about 2 hours. Apparently that's the only thing some people look at, so yeah, I bet it would look unfinished in that case. Which is unfortunate because that's roughly two hours of work compared to a whole lot more that went into everything else. I spent a week making the boat ride. I spent a whole weekend working on just two buildings. Just because something looks rushed doesn't mean there wasn't a whole lot of time spent on it. You might not notice but a lot of the trees on this map have been stacked by 1/4 tile or more. A lot more time went into it than it would appear from the overview. With the codex trainer you're now working in 3 dimensions. Like RCT2 actually, only better because you can stack everything and you can stack by very small increments.

I've got another version of the park I'll be uploading that is finished -- that is, I spent about two more hours working on it. But there's still a lot of empty grass because that was intentional. I didn't want to cover up all the landscaping because I like it. And there aren't more buildings because the map is supposed to be a Japanese garden. I know how everyone here loves making those little buildings, but this is one park that was not all about the architecture.

And you know, I'm not even that angry about losing. I'll be disappointed if we don't make the playoffs now because that'll be it for me, and I really wanted to make at least one RCT2 park -- but about the loss? Nah, it's one match. Not all that significant on it's own. But I am a little surprised at how little people seem to care. I think darkfire has just given us the single biggest step forward in the history of the game. Either game. And if people miss it completely because they're too comfortable with their pretty little 1/4 tile parks and semi-realistic coaster designs to try something new, that would be a terrible shame. Yeah it's not for RCT2 yet, but I just showed you what it could do. There's at least a dozen examples in my park of things you can do with the codex trainer that you couldn't do before. And an RCT2 version is on the way. Am I the only one who's excited about this?

In theory screens and overviews would only entice.

Edited by John, 30 August 2006 - 06:45 PM.

Ah, it's a shame we had to lose this. Both parks were pretty darn good.

Anyway, I thought I'd bring up an idea I was having about these screenshots.

Couldn't you allow the parkmaker to send screenshots along with the park file? That way they can pick what they feel to be the best features and noone feels cheated or whatever. That might help things...