General Chat / Star Wars

Obi Wan owned Anakin because he knew his weaknesses. So he could exploit them. Mace never really stood a chance against Sidious IMO. The power base for me has Yoda then Sidious, but that's because Anakin is half jedi half sith. Though if you take those two together combined and he'd be in second.

Anyway, Ed, I think Ep III at least makes you look at IV-VI differently.

Watch A New Hope. Notice the expressions on ObiWan when he sees R2 again, C3PO, when he talks about Luke's father. When Vader strikes him down.

To me, it was a lot different.

Yeah but that's the point Cork. I don't want to look at them differently. I like a little mystery in my fiction. Knowing exactly how it all happened, cheapens it somehow. Like that line about the Clone Wars. Those words spark my imagination. I imagine all sorts of weird spaceships and political dealings and schemings and larger than life characters. Then when you see how it actually happens, the way George 'intended it' (which I don't buy for a second. that was a throw-away line and everyone knows it) it's a let down. The emperor was this all powerful mennace in the original trilogy. In Episode III he's a wimp. He can't even beat freakin' Mace Windu who's a nobody in these movies. He's at the mercy of Anakin who has a stupid reason for saving him anyway. I can see where George was going. A Jedi is supposed to be selfless which is why love is forbidden. The best soldiers have no families to worry about. But the movie did not justify for me Anakin's changing to the dark side. The decision was made way too quickly and I still think that any halfway decent Jedi would be able to control their emotions just a little bit and see that killing and torturing hundreds of people vs maybe being able to save their wife that maybe will die in childbirth is not a good tradeoff! And that's the decision that all six of these movies hinge on. That's the entire reason for making these prequels. You botch that and you've sunk the whole ship. He never should have even tried. He botched it. And it cheapens everything. So I choose just to pretend the prequels are some alternative interpretation because they don't fit with my telling of the original Star Wars trilogy. And I prefer my telling immensely to this alternative one.

That was my biggest complaint about Terminator 3. I don't want to see 'Judgement Day'! The one I'm imagining, is infinately better. It's fuzzy and incomplete, but that's why it works. When you fill in all the details it trivializes it. I hate that about movie sequels. The 'we'll give 'em what they want' mentality. Because it's always a losing proposition. People think they want to see that stuff but they're better off just imagining it.

Two points to enhance your Star Wars knowledge

Point #1 - The Tree of Masters and Apprentices:



Point #2 - The Medichlorian count for Star Wars Characters:

Anakin Skywalker/Darth Vader = 27,700
Darth Sidious/Palpatine (with Kyber Crystal) = 20,500
Yoda = 17,700
Luke Skywalker = 14,500
Leia Organa Solo = 14,500
Aenon Jurtis (Most powerful Jedi Master prior to Yoda) = 14,200
Shintor Beerus (ancient Jedi Master) = 13,900
Ce Ce Denowai (the most powerful female Jedi) = 13,700
Ben (Jhon) Skywalker = 13,700
Anakin Solo (New Jedi Order novels) = 13,700
Darth Plagueis (Darth Sidious' master) = 13,600
Count Dooku/Tyranus = 13,500
Obi-Wan Kenobi = 13,400
Kaja Sinis (the first Jedi) = 13,250
Kyle Katarn = 12,200
Mace Windu = 12,000
Darth Maul = 12,000
General Grievous (New Episode 3 Villain) = 11,900
Kit Fisto = 11,800
Exar Kun (Dark Lord of the Sith during the Sith War) = 11,700
Shindor = 11,500 (Dark Jedi from Episode 7)
Yaddle = 11,300
Xanatos' (Qui-Gon Jinn's former apprentice) = 11,300
Darth Seer (Founder of the modern Sith Order) = 11,200
Plo Koon = 11,100
Mara Jade = 11,000
Darth Malak (Knights of the Old Republic video game) = 10,800
Jedi Master Corran Horn (from the New Jedi Order series of Star Wars novels) = 10,700
Ki Adi Mundu = 10,600
Darth Bane = 10,500
Nebar Foxis (Jedi Knight played by SuperShadow in Episode 3) = 10,400
Joruus C'baoth = 10,350
Darth Imperius = 10,300
Shaak Ti = 10,300
Tahari Vehlia (New Jedi Order novels) = 10,300
Echuu-Shen Jon = 10,200
Darth Revan = 10,200 (Knights of the Old Republic video game)
Jedi Master Kam Solusar (New Jedi Order novels) = 10,100
Aalya Secura = 10,000
Qui-Gon Jinn = 10,000
Average Jedi = 10,000
Assajj Ventress = 9,600
Naga Sadow (Dark Lord of the Sith that fled to Yavin 4)= 9,400
Jedi Master Adeus Hust = 9,300
Jacen Solo (New Jedi Order novels) = 9,000
Jaina Solo (New Jedi Order novels) = 9,000
Jedi Master Cihgal (New Jedi Order novels) = 9,000
Darth Rage (Sidious' apprentice after Darth Maul) = 9,000
Jedi Master Tionne Solusar (New Jedi Order novels) = 8,500
Dezar Looger (Dagobah Dark Jedi) = 8,400
Xio Jade = 7,400
Chewbacca = 7,200
Tylus Liv = 7,100
Aurra Sing = 7,000
Need To be Considered for Training as a Jedi = 7,000
Padme Amidala = 4,700
Danni Quee (New Jedi Order Jedi Scientist)= 4,500
Beru Lars = 3,700
Shmi = 3,300
Lando Calrissian = 3,300
Boba Fett= 1,500
Han Solo = 1,500
Jango Fett = 1,500
Owen Lars = 1,500

Your Welcome from your local star wars nerd, and please, get a stormtrooper helmit smiley.

Anyways, thanks to Corky, most of that is probably wrong, but don't blame the messenger.

The emperor was this all powerful mennace in the original trilogy. In Episode III he's a wimp. He can't even beat freakin' Mace Windu who's a nobody in these movies. He's at the mercy of Anakin who has a stupid reason for saving him anyway.

I and practically everyone I've talked to are convinced that Palaptine was simply feigning weakness against Windu (who was a lot better in the Clone Wars cartoons... seriously...), so that Anakin would come. He had forseen this and used Windu as a ploy to get Anakin to turn. I mean, if he was really so weak, how come a moment later, he instantly reverts back to badass Palpatine and shocks Windu out a window? It was an act all along. Palpatine was the ultimate puppet master here, and he completely duped everyone.

Now, as far as the "imagination" bit goes... that just means that the movie could have no satisfied you no matter what. If you prefer to imagine what the prequels were like, then why did you even watch the movie? I don't find that to be a feasible criticism towards the movie. In essence, even if everything worked out perfectly, you would not have been satisified. No amount of non-shitty acting could have prevented that.

Also, I don't think that it was Windu that screwed up the Emperor's face. Wasn't it messed up before that when we saw him talking to his apprentices? I thought that maybe he is able to control what it looks like (since he can probably do some of that controlling life stuff) and that he just used Windu's attack as an excuse to keep on his normal, disfigured face in public. Basically, I think that his normal face was already ugly, but that he could make it look normal when he wanted to. But I'm not certain about this. I'd probably need to see some of the prequels again. I'll probably see this one again this weekend.

Yeah, and if you want to imagine everything, you can go read a book and not watch movies. It's doubtful that any movie will look like you imagine it, unless if you already knew how it would look beforehand (such as by having read a book that describes it perfectly well). That's the power of... imagination! *shuffles off into a Disney song*

Nah... watch closely. The sith lightning is being deflected off the lightsaber and back onto Palpatine. And for that (admittably weak reason), his face gets deformed.

I didn't get it at first either. After all, he seemed fine shocking other people for continuous amounts of time. But apparently, Mace was redirecting a lot of that energy back, and as Palpatine held onto it, the disfigurement commenced. That's also why Dooku didn't deform himself when he tried to shock Obi Wan but Kenobi blocked it. Dooku only held on for short amount of time.

Look at the earlier films, and Sidious does resemble pre-deformed Palpatine from the nose down, actually.

They definitely could have illustrated the process better. It looked too flukey.

On one hand I'm with Ed. The fuzziness makes The Usual Suspects the best suspense movie ever.

On the other, I really was looking forward to the first three movies, but they just seemed to gimmicky for me. I mean it's not a secret that George had a big role in creating the video game, so it's pretty obvious that money was the main reason the movies were made at all. I had really hoped that they would be made seventies style like the original so they matched, because it would have been more authentic and consistent, but also, the filmmakers had to keep some things the same, like some ship designs, the stormtroopers uniforms, the credits, etc, and it just ended up being really tacky. I know the originals were lame but let's be honest, that's basically what made them so good.

Now you guys are just making excuses. I suppose those explanations work, but that isn't necesarily why it happened that way in the movie.

Basically I think Lucas carved out an impossible task for himself. Everyone wants to know what the 'Clone Wars' is. So if he's going to go ahead and show us, he'd better make damn sure he does it right. The higher the expectations, the greater the chance of failure. And he set the expectations sky high. But as for me, I really don't think I'm asking for much. In terms of visual creativity he hit the ball out of the park. But can't I care about one single character in any of these movies? Is it too much to ask to pull off 30 seconds of genuine human drama? I've said this before, but what I think grounds Science Fiction and Fantasy in a reality which makes it meaningful is when there is a human drama that people can identify with. Yeah none of us lives in a galaxy far, far away -- but we experience love and loss and friendship and betrayel. None of those emotions make their way into this third movie in a way that's even close to believable. And from where I stand, that's a monumental failure. Maybe I'm expected to care just because it's Star Wars. Maybe I'm expected to care about this Anakin statue because his son Luke fought the good fight in the original trilogy. Maybe I'm supposed to pretend Yoda is wise because he seemed so mysterious and insightful 20 years ago. If you look at these movies on their own, none of the characters hold up because there's never any time given to developing them. And there's no excuse for that. George can do whatever he wants - he's got all the money and all the CG wizardry in the world. And yet me, with nothing, I can write more convincing drama than this. That's inexcusable. These movies are too important to too many people to get away with this.

And the 'go read a book' comment seems really trite to me. I love movies. I live for movies. I write them, shoot them, edit them. I've pretty much done everything there is to do on a set. That's why I hold movies to such a high standard. I expect a lot out of them. I expect them to move me in some way, as the best ones always do. This is all flash and no heart. It's fancy sets and costumes and set pieces. Sound and fury signifying nothing. Frankly, I don't care who begot who and who cut off who's arm and how many types of 'battle droids' the 'seperatist army' has constructed. But I would like to see a story about an innocent boy, too ambitious for his own good, drawn into something. Do you feel like you learned how the boy in Episode 1 became Darth Vader? Oh I can connect the dots from plot point to plot point, but I still don't get it. It doesn't register for me because the story never earned it. It doesn't feel like the decisions come from the characters, it feel like they come from the stroke of some master's hand.

And actually, Episode I was the only prequel that even came close to being real to me. I guess because there were actually some characters in that one. Darth Maul may have died in Episode I, but he at least earned his death scene. This Grievous character didn't earn squat. Or maybe I'm just missing out because I didn't watch the animated series first or play through the video game. Excuse me for thinking a movie has to stand on it's own. I defended Episode I when just about everyone thought it was shit. Yeah it was cheezy and childish at times, but it had moments which felt real. Everything since has been an utter disaster. I guess everyone just wanted to see those lightsabers and CG wookies and a bunch of puppet people bashing into each other for two and a half hours. Well I'm at least glad someone got what they payed for.

What is the Kyber Crystal?

No, Ed, you're right. In the movie, Greivous goes out like a total pussy.

Which pissed the hell out of me.

No, Ed, you're right.  In the movie, Greivous goes out like a total pussy.

Which pissed the hell out of me.

Yes, but I think it was fiting because he was so poorly devolped. I wasn't like, OH SHTI THEYU JUST KILED THE GENERAL!!!

Okay, Ed, I see your point now. I certainly agree that the human factor was missing in the prequels, though I did manage to find some emotion in this one. Episode II was completely dry for me, but Episode I wasn't too bad. I just disagreed with your previous comment that you felt the prequels shouldn't have been made because they were going to be different from what you imagined. I guess maybe you meant that you imagined they would have had human drama.

And yes, Grievous kinda sucked, at least in that he didn't live up to his potential. I actually thought he was really cool in appearance, concept (a Vader prequel of sorts), and how he acted and everything, except that he kept running away, and that he got completely owned. How does that happen when you have four lightsabers?

About the Kyber Crystal, is that like some kind of Sith artifact? I remember I once read a very long time ago that there were actually 3 basic groups of people with the force. There were the Jedi, the Dark Jedi (just bad Jedi), and the Sith. What I read separated the Sith from the Dark Jedi was that the Sith drew power from artifacts and such, but there was never anything about this in the movies. I'm guessing they just decided that any Dark Jedi can be a Sith.

I used to be a Star Wars nerd, so I still know a little about these things.

blah blah blah

The fact that you believe SuperShadow makes you a bad person

Chewbacca = 7,200

Need To be Considered for Training as a Jedi = 7,000

So according to you, Chewbacca could have been a jedi?

That would have been really cool.

Yes Janus But not according to me...I'm not THAT nerdy to go find all of those... lol

And just off-topic a bit:

Everyone complains about how bad the acting was, i thought Ian McDermott and Hayden Christiansan played REALLY good parts in this new movie. McDermott was just as evil as I'd think Palpatine was, and once Anakan turned to the dark side, I think Hayden played that part quite well too (not when he was still Jedi though...)

Also, I think Ewan's part was well played, minus the few shitty script points he had, but I think he pulled it off nicely.
Exhibit A: (points of HORRID script lines from Obi Wan)
"I Sense a Trap" "Next Move---" "Spring the Trap"
That whole sequence about how many times Anakan saved him...awful.

Ah, there's too many to name them all LOL.

Mace Windu

I love mace

Mace Windu

I love mace

Congratulations. He got fucked up (cheap, yes, but he did).