H2H3 / H2H FINALS Game 1 - Hurricanes vs Flying Germans

I can't wait to find out who made The Faraway Tree. Seriously, what the bloodyfuck were you smoking? I've read those books, and that is not the image I got...

Anyway, the decision wasn't too difficult for me.

The Faraway Tree - not really my style, sorry. The water was all glitchy, for me, which turned me off. The foliage was positively awful in places, as was the architecture and the coaster. Flashes of brilliance, and doubtless a lot of work has gone into it, but not for me, i'm afraid.

Götheburg - I wasn't that impressed with the duelers, to be honest, the duels seemed a bit forced. The bits in between worked very well, and the supports were nice. Colours weren't to my liking, really. Again, slightly forced. The rest of it, unutterably lovely. The architecture worked, without being groudbreaking. I loved the little stone pillars that held things up, and the makeshift lattice diagonal wooden bits. It's the little things like that that I like the best. The atmosphere was good, also, and the foliage and rock work blew me away. I don't think i've ever seen a more beautiful landscape.

Hurricanes get my vote.

Wow, this is real close.

[font="Arial"]Well, I voted for my team. I haven't looked at The Faraway Tree yet, but I plan on looking at it later tonight. I looked at Götheburg though, and I loved everything about it.
I might have reviews on the parks after I look at The Faraway Tree.[/font]

Someone Vote for us!!!!!!!!!

Are you kidding me?

*

I voted for my team, but for me it was a draw. I did love Gotheburg's simplicity, and the duels were fantastic, but it just didn't capture me like Sierra Glen and other parks of that style... TFT, on the other hand, was just WOW, but it didn't really all come together for me; a back story would help, I think.

Gotheburg up 2 with my vote.

I voted Gotheburg because it was so beautiful. The architecture was fantastic, simple, and hardly 1/4 tile at all. I can tell the parkmaker obviously, and the foliage was fantastic. There were very few flaws at all in this park, and I really loved the coasters. It was so simple, beautiful, in my book, almost perfection for a RCT park.

The tree was...It was great. However, as soon as I opened it, I was like WTF, this is Fright Nights, and then the clouds and uhghh...too much "borrowing". I'm not saying borrowing is bad, but borrowing to a certain extent like this is rediculous. Screamed Fright Nights/Ghost Cell Crisis/Erwindale/Aviara Cove, and a mixture of only those. The foliage at some points were as well horendous, I'm talking about some of the tree selection. It felt like it could have been so much more had it been executed perfectly. I really felt it could be tremendous had it not copied so many original ideas. Building a themed area over again, after it had already been done is different than reincarnating Phatage's work. Something so unique, and totally not in your "normal" park, appearing more than once is a crime.

Anyways, both parks were fantastic. I even dare say that more work and time was put into the tree, however, it just doesn't do it for me.

I wrote a long post, but I think it can be summed up like this:

The Flying Germans = crap.
The Hurricanes = nothing.

I'd rather vote for crap than nothing, so, well, there you go.

Okay, so, maybe it isn't quite that simple, but it's late, and I've been running around the Disney resort all day (for my mom's birthday, which was Saturday, but we thought Mondays would be better crowd-wise). I'll elaborate later if nessecary, or someone else could do it for me...

If you mean Disneyland Resort, then you're a lucky mofo.


(I've been getting DLR cravings recently.... it's been too long since I last went there )

My vote = germans that park is very original and thming is very good too.

The Faraway Tree:

I didn't enjoy it that much, but I think the idea could have made an absolutely amazing park. The landblock landscaping that it opened onto was possibly the worst use of landblocks I have ever seen, and that's saying quite a lot considering that i don't usually like landblock usage anyway as I don't think many people use it the correct way. Anyway, the foliaging the park just wasn't for me either. I did however like the tree that the coaster spiralled up and then went into the clouds. That was cool. The coaster seemed to lack direction. Not sure why it just went around the surface for like...5 minutes without really doing anything. That could have been either shortened, or had some sort of reason for it with things happening around it. Anyway, I respect this effort as it must have taken a lot to do, and the idea behind it (imo) is great....however, it just lacked the refined feel of Gotheburg and some areas were sloppy, bordering hideous. I will be interested to see who made it though.

Metro

[quote name='artist' date='May 2 2005, 08:24 AM'][/quote]
[font="arial"]Neither can i, i mean how? Maybe becuase we have an awful lot of new guys here at NE lately, also can non - members (guests) vote?[/font] [/quote]
i can answer this no guest cant vote and new members cant either im not new and im not able to vote.

I voted for the hurricanes. I thought i was going to love the duellers a bit more when i opened the park up and noticed whom made them. Agreeing with gigaforce, they're horribly slow. Speed-wise just the diving loop and turn around, but the rest of the track constantly goes relatively slow over relatively large portions of track. And the timing was good enough, but not impeccable. Possibly good-enough for a h2h park, but not for a full park as it would sort of hurt it just a bit. The other park... i didn't like it much first hand, and made up my vote back then. When i was reading the topic i thought this park was being pushed aside for the wrong reasons. The clouds were cool, for instance. The thing that detracted my vote was the overall messyness, and just the fact that there was all that track there. Make it invisible, lower it, but do something with it. Doesn't seem necesarry at all to have all that track showing. Oh well. The whole copying calling thing is getting out of hand though. I can see how this was inspired by GCC, but its really an essentially different idea. I mean, we've all been inspired to use this game called roller coaster tycoon as a serious workset to create themeparks, but even so, we all play it differently than the rest. It doesn't make sense to call that copying, as it doesn't when someone floats something to call it copying, or whatever. And iris, Erwindale was great, don't get me wrong, but stop calling it the one park where the whole "split-coaster" thing was introduced in. I mean, when it came out I know i made a ton of split-coaster things myself, and all kinds of other people were using it too. Even if Ed/Mantis was able to theme it well, they can't be given credit for taking an idea that wasn't themed well over someone who takes an idea that has been themed well. If you know what I'm saying. Theming it better than anyone else gives you credit, yes, but credit for the theming, not the idea of making a split coaster or using a tree and floating "stuff."

If you mean Disneyland Resort, then you're a lucky mofo.

No, Disney World... which I thought would be obvious since... um... I live in Florida... about 80 minutes away from that one... and quite a bit farther away from Disneyland... yes... anyways...

I voted for the hurricanes. I thought i was going to love the duellers a bit more when i opened the park up and noticed whom made them. Agreeing with gigaforce, they're horribly slow. Speed-wise just the diving loop and turn around, but the rest of the track constantly goes relatively slow over relatively large portions of track. And the timing was good enough, but not impeccable. Possibly good-enough for a h2h park, but not for a full park as it would sort of hurt it just a bit. The other park... i didn't like it much first hand, and made up my vote back then. When i was reading the topic i thought this park was being pushed aside for the wrong reasons. The clouds were cool, for instance. The thing that detracted my vote was the overall messyness, and just the fact that there was all that track there. Make it invisible, lower it, but do something with it. Doesn't seem necesarry at all to have all that track showing. Oh well. The whole copying calling thing is getting out of hand though. I can see how this was inspired by GCC, but its really an essentially different idea. I mean, we've all been inspired to use this game called roller coaster tycoon as a serious workset to create themeparks, but even so, we all play it differently than the rest. It doesn't make sense to call that copying, as it doesn't when someone floats something to call it copying, or whatever. And iris, Erwindale was great, don't get me wrong, but stop calling it the one park where the whole "split-coaster" thing was introduced in. I mean, when it came out I know i made a ton of split-coaster things myself, and all kinds of other people were using it too. Even if Ed/Mantis was able to theme it well, they can't be given credit for taking an idea that wasn't themed well over someone who takes an idea that has been themed well. If you know what I'm saying. Theming it better than anyone else gives you credit, yes, but credit for the theming, not the idea of making a split coaster or using a tree and floating "stuff."

Fine. They made the first good one. Better?

I have to disagree with you again. Erwindale Forest when it came out, was an entire park with a set theme. Not only did it formally introduce the split coaster into LL, but it really served as a park. It had a supporting coaster, different smaller parts to make up for a general theme. It also had that unique freefall ride, like several different attractions. With Erwindale Forest, Ed came up with a brand new theme (that this one kinda borrows) and themed it the way that he builds. He invented a new style of theming that he uses with all of his parks...it's" just how he builds, like...that's how Ed would build an enchanted village, just like it's how you would build the City of God area in your new park...you're not trying purposely to do things that are new...it's just how you envisioned it and you knew what you wanted to accomplish.

The thing is, who is to say that the makers of this park didn't build a Fantasy themed tree the way they wanted to? I think it is unfair to say that Erwindale or my City of God area is built only for the sake of meeting Myself and Ed's vision and that Faraway is built for the sake of trying something new.

The Faraway Tree was just way too unoriginal for me. I know this part kinda confused you when I said this, but let me elaborate. It felt to me...as if the parkmakers behind this park brainstormed and were thinking 'what are the gimmicks that usually win in these kinda events...let's thrown them all into one park'. We've seen the big overgrown trees before (in the aformentioned Erwindale Forest....and then again in Bayfront Parc....and then again in that rctfreak park he released....and then again in natelox's Hi-Rollers Entry Earth...and then again in YOUR Disney's Movie Magic. (I could keep going with the 'and then...'s but I think I made my point). We've seen the cloud idea in Ghost Cell Crisis...which wasn't too far ago, not to mention I remember Gymkid showing screens of the same idea as this. We've seen a thousand of these adventure rides that fill up an entire map that don't do anything new (like I said...the vertical drop from the clouds was in Ghost Cell)...like someone cloned an adventure coaster about three months ago and we've just been seeing the same ones over and over again. The architecture was all very reminiscent of Fright Nights...same patterns and same textures, even borrowing the overgrown foliage thing.

Ok, thats a fair assessment. Now let me show you how Gotheburg is just as "unoriginal."

- The Duelers looked like a floorless version of dueling dragons. Who hasn't seen this color scheme before in a medieval themed area (eh...IOA, and Legends West).
- The theming is NOTHING new, we have seen this medieval theming before, and I would go as far as saying that this park is an LL park in RCT2 (Minus the large tower).
- Who hasn't seen the custom supports like this before? These (just like the trees you mentioned) are nothing new.
- Why not use a coaster other than a floorless? Why not use...a suspended...or anything else.

Thing is, you can say that both parks have used borrowed ideas and you can mention and point out influences that have inspired the creation of these two. It doesn't come down to the borrowed ideas, it comes down to the creativity, the package, and the skill it took to craft the parks.

Now I don't think it's wrong to borrow ideas to make parks. People borrow others all the time. Fatha' invented a whole style of parkmaking that's been copied by many, as has X-Sector, as has mantis, RRP, natelox, posix, Mala, Pyro, SA, etc. etc. etc. It's just that this park has so many borrowed ideas that they didn't leave any for their own. It looks to me like a park that was built with the sole purpose of getting votes, instead of a park that was built to be good...regardless. So while the premise of the Faraway Tree is much more original then a German village, the actual park isn't. I myself will take a damn awesome set of dueling B&M Mulit-Elements with perfect timing, great speed, perfect support structures, and awesome layouts over the average run of the mill adventure ride any day. I'll take original architecture that we've never seen in a German style park over seeing Phatage's for the second time. I'd rather enjoy the peaceful, surreal, and pretty realistic atmosphere that Gotheburg produces then the rushed 'let's shove a million fantasy things in one park' atmosphere I get from the Faraway Tree.

I have to disagree. Again i feel that Gotheburg offfered nothing original, or at least offered nothing MORE original than the Faraway Tree did. The idea, the craft, the skill, and time taken to create Faraway Tree far outshines any effort taken to create Gotheburg imo. Nowadays, its really rare to see parks create new ideas (Although there are a few, mostly from Ed), so to dock points from a park because it has borrowed ideas seems unfair (Mostly because all parks borrow ideas).

Ok, thats a fair assessment.  Now let me show you how Gotheburg is just as "unoriginal."

- The Duelers looked like a floorless version of dueling dragons.  Who hasn't seen this color scheme before in a medieval themed area (eh...IOA, and Legends West). 
- The theming is NOTHING new, we have seen this medieval theming before, and I would go as far as saying that this park is an LL park in RCT2 (Minus the large tower). 
- Who hasn't seen the custom supports like this before?  These (just like the trees you mentioned) are nothing new.
- Why not use a coaster other than a floorless?  Why not use...a suspended...or anything else.

I see your point, but again I have to argue. Sure both parks have ideas that have been used in other parks. Every park in the world (sans the exceptional completely original one that comes out like once a year) have used some form of things from other parks. But Gotheburg, unlike Faraway Tree, isn't dependant on it. Completely stripped down, it's a good park. I mean what are the basic building blocks of a good park? For me it's the following things:
1.Coasters
2.Theming
3.Architecture
4.Atmosphere

Now...if you take away the custom supports. Changed the colors of the coasters. Put sitdown trains on the looper (still can't believe YOU'RE talking about not using a Floorless "Mr. Scarlet Fever-Paladin-Pirates of the Caribbean-Mimic-Battle For Lost City-Amity Cove one" ) Accept the fact the theming doesn't bring anything new and leave it at just 'it looks nice'. Now take a look at those four. You still have coasters with good layouts (albeit a bit slow), nice looking theming, solid architecture, and a beautiful atmosphere.

Now let's take a look at the Faraway Tree, and strip down it's gimmicks, and all you'll have left is a meandering adventure ride that spends half it's layout curling around without much direction or purpose, and the other half mimicing Fright Nights. The theming is sloppy, the architecture doesn't look too impressive, and the coaster was really disappointing.

All in all, it's park vs. gimmick to me. Sure it's not necessarily a new park idea. Nor is it a new gimmick. But I'll take an old good park over an old average gimmick.

for you, fatha, i think what corkscrewed said is most important to understand. obviously, the parkmaker of gotheburg did not set out with a goal of immense creativity. the park itself was apparently meant to be reminiscent of past work in a nostalgic way; it was not meant to present new ideas in order to 'wow' the viewer, but rather it was meant to arrange established ideas alongside some - dare i say - creative effects and techniques, however subtle they may have been. precious subtlety, nuonce, this is what gotheburg employs. the park seems to attempt to create an atmosphere of calmness as well as a reality within itself. while out of context, the idea of dueling floorless coasters that are launched 100 feet into a deep valley and engage in some crazy inversion combinations may seem unrealistic, when seen in the context of this park, with all its subtle details, an unrealistic reality is created. in the end, gotheburg is just as important for what's there as it is for what isn't there; a lesson that many parkmakers could use.

the faraway tree though - at least for me - was a park completley based on originality and the always-effective 'wow' factor, which seems to work all too well these days. the park wants to look new, glossy, creative, amazing, overwhelming, etc. and as a whole, the park certainly accomplishes this. if you step back and think about the concept and overall image of the park, it's really cool. an enchanted village of sorts on an huge hill with vast trees strecthing up into the clouds. that's cool. and admittedly, the overview is pretty attractive. this is the aim of the park. but the most important part of this arguement is that the faraway tree, when broken into independant components, is a collection of borrowed ideas, which need not be mentioned here, as we've beaten that dead horse enough. in the end, i think that the faraway tree is an h2h park, and only an h2h park. it sets out to win votes. gotheburg, on the other hand, is simply a park. a full, complete, simple park which does not at all attempt to garner votes, it employs no tricks, no gimmicks it just is what it is.

forgive me if i sound a little philosophical or too deep. i tend to do that when i get into my writing.

Sounds to me like we're into the 'post-modern' stage of parkmaking where just about everything borrows from what came before in one way or another. I'd like to contribute to this discussion, but I've misplaced my RCT2 disc and I haven't had time to look for it. It looks (and sounds) like a great matchup. So there's at least one more legitimate vote to be had.

To me the faraway tree is an idea for a theme that was pulled off really well. The clouds and the ride were very well done and the atmosphere was brilliant.
RCT is all about creating an image and the tree does it well

Dont get me wrong gotheburg is superb. But it just isnt my style of park as much as the faraway tree is. ALot of people seem to reckon this should be a clear cut win for gotheburg but i think its far from that

Well, Gotheburg was ok. I liked the Dualers alot, but everything else was meh.

Faraway thingy was even more meh.

So my vote is Gotheburg cos of the dualers.

I hate the term 'gimmicks' used in this context. I could equally say that the theming style used in Gotheburg is a gimmick to garner votes because it appeals to the masses.

And STILL people seem to think that using 'borrowed ideas' is a bad thing in The Faraway Tree but not in Gotheburg. I don't know why people bother even trying to argue this point when it gets universally ignored.