H2H3 / WEEK 10: Flying Germans vs IIIcons

^^Well, Flood is a pretty damn cool splash boats IMO.

But I understand where you're coming from - the emphasis is definitely different.

I actually had an issue with the spaghetti-bowl nature of the duelers...when something like that is placed on top of such nice landscaping, it kind of ruins it IMO.

The irony of NE.

Butcher artist for "copying," and then praise the wrong park. heh.

I'd choose theming. This is a parkmaking competition, and theming is more important to the overall experience of a park than coasters.

Isnt that a complete oxymoron. The ideal of parkmaking shouldnt be themeing, because in no way shape or form does the theme make a park what it is. Indeed, every one i've known or seen is awed by the coasters of a park. I mean look at the alliance with real life. They dont walk away form a park and say, i hate this park, the funnel cake shop was placed all wrong and the flowering around the train station wasnt that good. They speak out on the coasters, and those that are into it, may add a little comment on the archy or the themeing.

Get it together people, a park should rely purely on its coasters as the backbone, not the themeing. If thats the case whats the purpose of making a PARK?

btw, i voted for IIIcons, their park was purely the better of the two, though the polls say different, imo it should of been a very close call. But the idiots choose to vote on look and themeing, heh, at least we all arent currupt....

Thank you junya.

I hate it when people vote the park that had more themeing, its funny really, i cant see why this is so one sided, IIIcons coaster seriously rocked and the germans park had no coaster just a splash boats and a mine train, i cant enjoy a good park unless it has good coasters, bad coasters and great themeing really doesnt make a park for me, unless the coasters are strong i cant enjoy the park.

Shame really, people concerntrate more on themeing these days than the coasters, ahh oh well.

Maybe you would choose Magic Mountain, but "I'm going to Disneyland!", or would be, and it's because I'm "in-depth".

Or maybe its because you're a pussy. Unless you have or are a kid, I seriously think there's something wrong when somebody who's been on a site about rollercoaster tycoon for so long opts to go to mini disney land than Magic Mountain. Like Junya said, parks were started on scenery and rides, and theming didn't become such a large factor (and with most parks still isn't) until the around 50 years ago when your disneyland was built. It has come to the point on this site that you'll find many more people that could theme to whatever the hell the disaster map was themed to which I'm still not sure of really with its volcanoes, buildings on steep slopes, oil rig, explosions, and tidal wave; all things done in other parks that seem to be randomly put in this one while adding a water ride and a wierd powered mine train. Its really hard to imagine being there really, being that it seems to me that there was never any intention of making the viewer believe that they were there rather than to put as many things that they've seen in other parks to get some votes. That's what happens when so little emphasis is put on the rides, and it comes to the point when even disney-like theming is ruined by horrible rides or even worse, a lack of altogether. Thus one is less indepth as Corky said by just looking at the theming because you just see it, but for one to experience a ride you have to ride it, whether that means watching it travel through its entire course or watching it through the ride window or whatever, not just overlooking it from a zoomed out view and whatever. And even if somebody were to base their vote off theming, I still don't see how they aren't bored with the things used in disaster whatever. Few jurrasic park themes that were actually based off the movie and not other's interpretations of the movie have been made; for one that totally does not follow the movie at all I would look at slob's cayman ioa, no offense to nfg though. I can't say enough how easy it would be for us to make a mountainous area with buildings all around but instead my team opted for something more original, and also opted for simpler architecture to create a more calm atmosphere in parts while not just ripping off posix. I wouldn't want to call doing that a risk although when it comes to votes on this site, the sad part is that it is in fact a risk because so many people are not in depth enough. Anybody want to argue this, first ride the rides and then post.

You all make good points but I'd just like to point out that this is a game that, at NE especially, you will be recognised for your ability to theme a ride. No ones going to get a spotlight for just building an unthemed coaster are they?
What your saying about rides being more important may be the case in real-life but in RCT, where you wont be recognised for just a coaster, themeing is an essential aspect.

The problem is that I watched the voting on this and there were 15 votes cast withing minutes of it being posted. That is hardly enough time for people to actually open the parks and look at the rides. It seems that the IIIcons park only gained momentum after people actually had time to peruse the parks. It was 20 votes down within a couple of hours and has actually split the vote since then. There are problems with the voting for H2H that I am aware of. I am 100% sure that some people vote multiple times with dead accounts, because people have told me they've done it (tho I won't name names) and I am 100% sure some people vote without looking at the parks (which to me is sad and a bit of a slap in the face of the parkmakers making them). From the screenshot I would've voted Germans too, but after looking at the parks, I enjoyed the IIIcons much more. Those duellers were really something special imo and it's a shame they're not entirely getting recognized as such.

Toon for admin!

Yeah...there are definitely glitches in the voting system right now. I noticed that the Germans park flew to a number of votes immediately...before one would even have time to load up both parks, let alone look at them. But there's not much else to do in the situation, until we impliment the new voting style that will be a lot more fool-proof.

As for the parks...
I nulled my vote on this one.

The Germans park was the more appealing one when it comes to visuals only. The rest of the park was extremely hollow for me. There was no substance, at least nothing we haven't seen done time and again. The architecture was nice, but like I said...just looked like a lot of other parks out there. The river flume was a very cool ride, but those should never be the determining ride in the park, and it was here. They serve much better as complimentary rides to a great coaster, which wasn't present. This park just seemed to take a bunch of old ideas and try and throw them together without much of a theme...which to me is almost to the point of gimmicky. The crane was taken straight from Crepe Myrtle Islands, the volcano things have been done WAY too many times. Also, the second volcano looks like it's nothing more then a space filler, as if the parkmaker had no idea what to put there, so he just plopped down another volcano. One overused volcano is enough in my opinion. The only thing on the map I enjoyed was the Mine Train, and more specifically the way it traveled under the wave, but even that isn't anything new (check Troy's Sunken Retreat or Universal's Island Xtreme). The park looks great, but really makes no sense, nor does it have anything to keep you interested after one viewing.

The IIIcons park on the other hand was the exact opposite. It wasn't as visually appealing as many other parks in H2H, however there was an overabundance of substance and atmosphere in this one. It took an old theme and made it in a very original way. While the other park had repetitive architecture that seemed copy and pasted from other parks, the IIICons invented a new style of architecture that looks both beautiful and unique, only I felt a few more of these buildings around the park would have really been beneficial. Onto the coasters, which completely demolish anything in the other park. The landscaping was also masterfully done in this park, whereas it wasn't at all in the Germans. In fact, I think that the IIICons park was better in almost every facet, except for generic theming...which seemed to be enough to double the score of the IIICons in this round. I'm not saying the IIICons deserved to win this round, but for the voting to be this one-sided is kind of ridiculous in my opinion. Open up the maps people and explore the park. Too many people I think are only looking to win in H2H. Even when I used to captain, I voted for the better park, regardless of if it was my team or not. If somebody put the manhours into making a better park, they deserved to win. Like I said...I'm not saying the winner is wrong, but the score definitely is.

Iris really does sum the whole thing up. I really wasn't suggesting the fix was in, because it kind of sounded like it in my post. I think it's more about making sure you explore the parks before you vote. If someone puts 50 hours of work into something, it's hardly fair for you to judge it based on a screenshot, which is what I fear often happens. Open the parks up and explore them!

I have one suggestion that about voting that may be something to use in the playoffs. How about putting the parks up for download and discussion then opening the voting 24 hours later. Might be an interesting way to change things up a bit.

Iris really does sum the whole thing up.  I really wasn't suggesting the fix was in, because it kind of sounded like it in my post.  I think it's more about making sure you explore the parks before you vote.  If someone puts 50 hours of work into something, it's hardly fair for you to judge it based on a screenshot, which is what I fear often happens.  Open the parks up and explore them!

Shame it happens, i mean marshy commented on PoM and then he told me on aim that he hadn't even looked at the park. It annoys me aswell, i mean people spend hours of there time on parks and then people just vote/comment by looking at the screens and not even giving the park a look over, its pretty rude and disgraceful really.

parks were started on scenery and rides

Exactly, they were started on scenery and rides, so you can't really choose. However, if I absolutely had to, and only if I absolutely had to, I would go for scenery, as I said. Sorry.

Corscrewed I'd like to think of myself as an "in-depth" person, but if forced to choose between theming and coasters, I'd choose theming. This is a parkmaking competition, and theming is more important to the overall experience of a park than coasters.

Just as a real world example which is the better park: Magic Mountain or Disneyland?

Maybe you would choose Magic Mountain, but "I'm going to Disneyland!", or would be, and it's because I'm "in-depth".

In depth people look at rides in addition to theming, not just rides. Conversely, most people who don't look at parks in an in-depth way just look at theming. That's what I meant by that statement.

Phatage summed it up pretty well too.

I looked at both parks, and voted already...

Outpost Prehistorica
This park looks quite nice in the overview, and I was expecting alot. It didn't really fulfill my expectations though. The architecture, although new and creative, seemed to be missing that something. I think if just a little more time had been spent on the buildings, because the thought process of the design looked like it could be wonderful. The landscaping was also very well executed. I like the 'Ptarmigan Flyers' ride, and the east line fit in well too. The area around the T-Rex's seemed a little 'small'... I would think an area of that nature would have a more 'larger than life' approach, but that's just a personal preference. The duelers definitely had their moments. I felt the coasters crawled a bit in places, and not all of the timing was perfect. I also think the first hills looked awkward due to them basically not having any support, and the fact that it was also unthemed. Overall, I liked it, but I didn't love it. I'd personally rank it around JKay's Rappers Delight, even though they are quite different.

Disastrous Paradise
This park didn't really have any parkmaking faults. The architecture was well execetuted and the rides were very nice. The only problems I had with the park were the lack of rides, the fact that most has been done before, and really, it didn't make me say 'Wow'. Overall a nice park, because I really don't have any other complaints about it. I'd rank this park just below God's Isle.

So, my vote went to the Germans.

You all make good points but I'd just like to point out that this is a game that, at NE especially, you will be recognised for your ability to theme a ride. No ones going to get a spotlight for just building an unthemed coaster are they?
What your saying about rides being more important may be the case in real-life but in RCT, where you wont be recognised for just a coaster, themeing is an essential aspect.

Yeah, but I'll be the first to comment if I see a good ride in a park. I mean, seriously, I've been on 71 roller coasters but I still can't make the perfect ride in RCT.

Some of the most memorable rides in RCT and real life have been the ones that simply use the terrain as "scenery" (cq?). For example, you can't hate Apollo's Chariot at BGW for not being ridiculously covered in Roman statues and unnecessary stuff. A decent ride will do the trick. Most of the time theming just covers up imperfections on a par ride.

Oooh, those erupting volcano's win hands down.

Exactly, they were started on scenery and rides, so you can't really choose. However, if I absolutely had to, and only if I absolutely had to, I would go for scenery, as I said. Sorry.

Yes, scenery. Scenery as in landscaping and nice places to walk through. Scenery not as in theming, where your mind is fooled to convince you that you are in another place. Scenery as in things you can see at a nice local park, things that one wouldn't pay 40 bucks to see alone with out something else. Scenery as in what I didn't see in the german's park but was plenty of in ours, so even if you would choose to go to a duck pond park over sfmm, you would still prefer our park over theirs according to what you said. I would hope you do over a park with repetitive architecture and theming ideas that don't really amount to anything that makes sense, that my team could've pulled out of our asses just as easily.

jon, I see what you're saying, but the thing is that you theme a ride, not build a ride to the theme. The rides with the best theming are the ones that the theme is built specific to the ride, and the other way around result is that of Six Flags. Rides are priority, and you won't find a good spotlight that doesn't have great rides. You can have some of the best theming to a crappy ride and I guarantee you that it will make runner up at best, or super runner up or whatever they're called now. The thing I'm upset about is how far rollercoaster tycoon has strayed away from the rollercoasters let alone real life. Hell, I spent 3 months or so making a park about it.

Yes, scenery. Scenery as in landscaping and nice places to walk through. Scenery not as in theming, where your mind is fooled to convince you that you are in another place. Scenery as in things you can see at a nice local park, things that one wouldn't pay 40 bucks to see alone with out something else. Scenery as in what I didn't see in the german's park but was plenty of in ours, so even if you would choose to go to a duck pond park over sfmm, you would still prefer our park over theirs according to what you said. I would hope you do over a park with repetitive architecture and theming ideas that don't really amount to anything that makes sense, that my team could've pulled out of our asses just as easily.

You make it seem like I was making a specific point about these parks, I'm not, just parks in general. Besides, I disagree with you that your team's "scenery" was even remotely good. It was shit.

I'm very interested to know what is so good to opt over going to an actual amusement park with actual rides when your going for that feel.

Erm... the score of this match at the time it was called is:
Flying Germans 50
IIIcons 29

The Flying Germans end the season at 4-3-0 and in first place, leapfrogging over the Seal Clubbers by virtue of their better divisional record.
The IIIcons came close to a playoff berth, but just missed, finishing 3-4-0 and missing the playoffs for the first time in franchise history. Given early season troubles, their late season comeback is quite a feat.

The Flying Germans' Disastrous Paradise was made by X-Sector and Jon.

The IIIcons' Outpost Prehistorica was made by (no surprise given the comments) Evil WME and Phatage.