RCT Discussion / What's your definition of a Spotlight?

1.Corkscrewed - Hung up on finishing the underwhelming WDE imo...needs to skip over that to a new project with his new style.

It's not as much "hung up" as it is "doesn't have time to finish his commitment." I could prolly finish that relatively quickly I had nothing else to do. But then, I rarely have nothing else to do.

Ed put it well. Though i think I worded my poll pretty well. It's the same thing in my eyes. Altho *gasp* at a post from Ed that's not 9 paragraphs long!!!

If we're waiting for the next UIX, it's going to be a long wait.

and people are fine with that. whether you want to believe it or not.

[font="tahoma"]and people are fine with that. whether you want to believe it or not.[/font]

I don't really buy that. Sure you are fine with that. And people may say they are now. But you're not the one who gets constant IM's nagging about spotlights after months go by without one.

6.natelox - Has finally experienced an RCT slump. The most reliable parkmaker at NE won't be able to pull us out of the mud this time.

I need to show you the current state of Ouest. Despite the fact that I agree with you about your slump comment, that's only half the problem. The other half is the amount of detail I'm trying to incorperate into Ouest, matched with the slower speed of Virtual PC (Because Ouest is made on an Apple) makes for a time consuming process.

I think the phrasing of the poll has a lot to do with the outcome. It could have been:

A: One spotlight a year but it's really good
B: Six spotlights a year but they aren't quite as good

And it would have turned out differently. Basically what it breaks down to (which iris just explained in detail) is that we all want to see the legendary parks and the continued mystique of the spotlight, but who is going to be making those parks? Look at iris' list of unproductivity and you get the picture. If we're waiting for the next UIX, it's going to be a long wait.

Right. Of course I would rather see legends as spotlights but as iris pointed out you aren't going to see many legendary parks anymore. Maybe it's the communial perception---I mean I could probably make an SWA now---but of course it wouldn't be revered like the original. Is that because everyone is getting better? I don't know, maybe. I kind of think this puts LL parkmakers at a disadvantage because I'm not sure what would be considered legendary in LL anymore. Probably you'd have to go into Erwindale detail in a full park, which would take someone like me several years and even Ed would have trouble doing. Then again, if I know the bar is raised for the runner up positions, then a super runner up would be more satisfying than before I guess. I voted for B though because I always thought the super runner up idea was rather pointless in the first place.

If we look at the past record of spotlights we see the really great, classic and memorable parks mixed in with lesser remembered spotlights. Just because you have an unbelievable, top 5-ever park doesn't mean you have to have a dry spell until the next one. The question, I think, isn't whether we should have one 100-grade spotlight vs. four 80-grades. It's whether we should mix the 100s in with the 95s, and possibly the 90s, or leave the 100s out there on their own. If choice B were about mixing in this way, back the way it used to be, and not about lowering the standard of Spotlights as much, then I would gladly vote Choice B.

the slower speed of Virtual PC (Because Ouest is made on an Apple) makes for a time consuming process.

that I understand...

You're probably right about LL Micool. The standard of detail in a H2H mini is tough to match in a complete park. Well I think it would be, I haven't actually tried. It isn't so much the ride limit that's a problem because there are ways of conserving your rides and whatnot. But the standard of detail and density of ideas means that making a full size park requires a considerable time investment. I don't have that kind of time to spend on RCT anymore myself, and the number of people qualified enough to pull of that stuff and still willing to build in LL, well there's not many. Natelox is one. mantis seems to have unofficially retired or something (or he's just too busy boozing ) City of Dreams is up to that standard, but a lot of that park is water and obviosuly it wasn't all built by one person either (though X did half of it).

Posix, I tend to agree with you on the grounds of what Spotlights should be if the site were like this poll, so you've got good intentions - but I disagree with you on the grounds of how they really are.

This poll (sorry Cork) should not have any influence on or show anything about the future of the site because we're voting based on the wrong thing. The choice is not whether we should have widely spread out amazing Spotlights or more frequent, less amazing parks. This is because neither of those choices is a reality in the way Spotlights work. Look at the list of them. We have the truly amazing parks, the classics, being interspersed with the less well remembered but still excellent parks. You've got Rivers of Babylon right after DreamWorks Great Australia. You've got Universal's Outrage right after Lost Era. That's how it works. Nowhere can you clearly define a double standard of the really great parks and the not-amazing Spotlights. But choice B is implying that Spotlights will be mostly the latter. This discussion makes you choose between all the Spotlights being incredible and infrequent, or most of them being of lesser quality. But Spotlights haven't worked that way and they won't ever work that way. You won't ever get a long streak of not-amazing parks without an amazing park somewhere in the middle. They're intermixed.

If we raise the standards, then only the truly awesome parks are Spotlights. I get that.
If we keep or lower the standards, then the mix will be some intermediate Spotlights between some really awesome ones.
Nowhere is it possible that by lowering the standards, the truly incredible parks will just stop. That's what Choice B seems to imply and that's why everyone is choosing choice A.

Suppose Parkmaker X is making an incredible park, destined to become a classic.
Suppose Parkmaker Y is making a very good park, which would have won Spotlight in the past but maybe been one of those "barely three-page" Spotlights instead of one of those "five-page."
If we raise the standards we're stuck with only Xs.
If we keep the standards we're not stuck with Ys. That's what everyone seems to be thinking all of a sudden. We'll still have the Xs, just mixed in with the Ys.

Now it seems to have worked for the past three or so years with the system of interspersing very good parks (DGA) with incredible parks (SWA). Again, look at the list. Why do we feel that we suddenly need to raise the standards of the Spotlight to prevent infiltration by the very good parks? We seem to have invented this alternate implication of keeping or lowering the Spotlight standard which is that the incredible parks will disappear altogether under a flood of very good parks. Where does it say that that will happen? What will happen is that we'll just have the same mix that we've always had.

What this poll needs to be about is whether we want the Spotlights to be of incredible quality, but infrequent; or some incredible and some very good (like it used to be), but more often. Choice B should not be having a bunch of not-so-great Spotlights in a row because that won't happen. We would have great parks and incredible parks intermixed like we always have. I don't think that's a bad thing.

4.John - Who knows. I've kinda given up hope for his parks a long time ago.

I'm kinda' depressed that you've given up hope.
At the same time, that's the straw that's finally breaking this camel's back.
Once I'm finished with H2H, you can guarantee a solo from me.

It may take a little more than a month to finish (), but I promise you'll get one.
I don't take my promises lightly, either.

Well looking forward to that. Just hadn't heard much from you really.
Also, I think Panic made a great post, and people should really listen to his point of view.

Well said Panic. Agree with you on every point.
The raising of standards in the way you mention will also decrease overall moral of the up and coming in my opinion therefore dropping the number of parks recieved anyway.

I nulled on the poll. And I think that all park that has won spotlight at anytime diserves to retain that honor, it's like a history of rct's best. Personally I'm not so sure where to stand. I feel that Spotlights should be more unique and amazing but at the same time I have no issue with a slightly weaker one during a dry spell.

Remember last year? Things stalled pretty good about this time... RoB came out and it was about 3 months till the next spotlight, Audrix Towers. Then we had the three all at once. It comes and goes. I'm okay with a few "weaker" ones to bridge the gap until the legends come along again. But if we had a triple spotlight round and this PoM was in I think it would be better as a double. I know this sounds awaful but the community has dry spells and we have to get through them somehow.

ride6

I think Panic said it best.

Since you can't dictate what "amazing park" will be submitted when, it would be silly to change the current spotlight system....also, since so much of this is subjective (like all art), what would define that 95% grade? Would you have to make a "checklist" of things on which to grade the park? Personally, I like the Spotlights section the way it is now. And the SRU idea is also good. I think every Spotlight on NE has SOMETHING stellar about it, and obviously so do the peeps (Iris and Corky and Mantis?) who awarded said parks.

OK, I'm done babbling.

And I plan to start building a new park in June.....soon as I get a bit of free time.


OK, rant over.
Cheers.

FANTASTIC post, Panic. If this board had a rep system, you'd be getting a whole lotta rep right now.

To be honest, I meant choice B to be like Panic mentioned... so I guess it wasn't as well worded as I'd hoped (funny, since I was actually careful about wording, but not careful enough obviously). Choice B was basically allowing for "lower quality" Spotlights, or basically, keep the system the same, like it's always been. That doesn't mean there wouldn't be the occassional RoB, but parks like PoM would be accepted as Spotlight quality.

Choice A, on the other hand, would restrict Spotlights only to those parks that create that feeling of incredibility.

Anyway, Panic's post was a very good half-counterpoint. Nice job there.

Mmm, I voted A, but I fully support Panic's arguement. Although it wasn't really a full arguement.

Oh well.

Well.

I thought about the same thing about the poll as above described, as one is clearly more attractive to choose than the other. Even though i agree with b, somewhat, i voted a .

Anyways, I wanted to actually add to the discussion. If we are going to have weaker spotlights, should that depend on the mood of Corkscrewed or Iris? How about getting ourselfs a time span again? We used to, didn't we? I used to remember if two amazing parks were there one would even have to (shhhh!) wait! And parks like Lost Era could win because it was the only good park released at the time. (i think it's still quite the nostalgic park to look at ) Then spotlights would be the best park, submitted those 2 months or whatever, and spotlights would be a regular update. Then, also, no one would haunt your decision, only possibly when you post a runner-up deemed better than the spotlight. It would also give it a more competitive sense, and the feeling you always have a 'chance.' Maybe it would result in a few below par spotlights, but it would also result in frequent updates, and, to me, more fun with the aspect of luck included. The legendary parks will always get spotlight, if they're around, so really, there's no need to worry about those. And there's no need for the spotlight to be all elite either, if a park is truly legendary, the park should be able to do all the talking for itself. Spotlight is nice, but if a park is good enough it should get its due respect whether spotlight or released on the forums.

12.x sector - Disappeared off the planet after this "Love Token" release, but his new solo looks very promising if he can keep building.

I feel I have to explain my disappearance

I did not disappear really I visited this site every single day I just never felt like replying to peoples topic and I couldn't be arsed to log on to AIM to talk. but I was building in rct but nothing inspired me everything looked shit and what I did like was in secret projects which I can't talk about and I felt like shit most days, but hey I'm back now. I've changed and alot more happier

I voted A. Allow me to quote myself in the Ports of Magia topic:

And to add to the spotlight discusion; I'd rather wait for a really, really good park then do to see some lesser parks. If that means waiting for months, then so be it. Meanwhile, you can please us with SRU's.

I did not disappear really I visited this site every single day I just never felt like replying to peoples topic and I couldn't be arsed to log on to AIM to talk. but I was building in rct but nothing inspired me everything looked shit and what I did like was in secret projects which I can't talk about and I felt like shit most days, but hey I'm back now. I've changed and alot more happier

Well that's good news! Don't get too down on yourself. It's good to be humble, but not to the point of self-loathing. It can get that way sometimes.

And yeah I voted A even though I really prefer B more just because of the way it was worded. I don't think the standards for spotlight should be lowered, but I don't think they should be raised either and it seems like those were the two choices. I think the standards should be what they have been since the beginning. And I have no complaints about any of the spotlights so far. There's a couple more parks I thought should have been spotlights and a couple spotlights I would hve made runner-ups, but I'm sure it's like that for everybody. And if parks are getting released as runner-ups, that keeps the updates coming anyway. There's a natural curve that goes with time anyway. Look at the earliest DNET spotlights compared to the later ones and the earliest NE spotlights. The standard does go up as the game progresses. I don't think it should be this elitist thing where we only have one or two spotlights a year (unless people just totally stop making parks).

I haven't had a chance to look at the last spotlight yet, but I think we should all be thanking Artist for actually producing parks. There's really no substitute for a finished full size park. These contest parks and minis are all lovely but the full parks are the movies and everything else is TV sitcoms. More movies would be nice.