RCT Discussion / What's your definition of a Spotlight?

Choice A:
The obvious Spotlights. The ones that you open up and practically feel the angelic halo blazing at you because they're so amazing. Stuff like Rivers of Babylon and Universal Islands Xtreme. But here's the catch: they don't come often. Under this definition, we would not have had a Spotlight since probably Phantasia, which was like eight months ago. Should Spotlights be that elitist and rare? It certainly makes the payoff more satisifying and special, but it could also discourage those who think they have no chance and thus don't try. Of course, you can also argue that a person who builds to try to win a Spotlight probably won't achieve the greatness that the award garners anyway, simply because he is building for others, not himself, and is thus superficial.

In addition, since we have Super Runners Up now, those can represent parks like (for argument's sake here) Ports of Magia, which are incredibly beautiful and would qualify for Feature Park at any other site (old Danimation included), but which lack that OOMPH. Therefore, the Spotlight CAN afford to be super special now and elevated. Now, if you consider this, then you also must ask the question: should some of the old Spotlights be demoted, then, since they wouldn't match this new judging standard, even if we adjust for skill level at the time? For example, parks like Elisnore Falls, Wormwood, and Bijou Magic would probably fit under this new standard, but is it fair to take away their Spotlight title? If not, how can you justify treating future parks differently? And if both methods are unfair, which do you go with?

Choice B:
We be technical with the distinction between SRU's and Spotlights and we allow parks that are incredibly skilled but not necessarily resoundingly classic to win Spotlight. Spotlights are not necessarily as elitist, and non-parkmakers/legends have hope and encouragement that they can claim the prize. The Spotlight is now more like the NCAA tournament, where dark horses can make surprise victories, rather than say the NBA where ultimately, there are only about four or five teams that really have a chance to win the championship.

One of the decisions to weight is how often you want Spotlights. While this seems selfish, it is an unignorable facet of people's opinions. Many people look back to Danimation's [and NE's, perhaps] "glory days" and cite that as a time when lots of parks were being debuted and Spotlights came often. And the stagnation of the site coincided with the lack of quality park updates. Well, Spotlights during that time weren't all legends. At most, they seem special because we have gotten used to them occupying a place on the pedestal, but examining them purely on the standards of greatness, many parks would not make the cut. However, that's not to say they don't deserve recognition.

Choice B basically says that a very good, consistent, beautiful park ought to be rewarded. Even if it's not super original, the skill level involved is something that merits attention. Furthermore, with more updates and more people being featured, the community stays active, even if controversy is involved. "There's no such thing as bad publicity," basically. It's a more social move. BUT, if you go with this, you risk diluting the quality and eliminating a true sense of specialty. So do you want to make the choice to go down that path?

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I invite everyone into this discussion, whether you're an "expert" (the likes of Toon, Iris, Ed, Mantis, Posix... cg?......... ), or whether you're a relative newcomer. Everyone has a voice here. The more feedback I get, both in voting and in replies (I ENCOURAGE actual replies in this DISCUSSION, where I've laid out numerous pros and cons of both choices), the more accurate I can consider the opinions. Also, feel free to take our past Spotlights and categorize them (in your opinion) into Choice A or Choice B. We've got 44 parks. Should be fun.

And I'd like to know your opinions. If a lot of people think a Spotlight should be that elite, then I'm welcome to make changes in the future and raise my own bar. I know that I had to do it after posting Vermillion as a design. This helps me learn as well. I know that I posted my opinion (which favors B more than A) in the Spotlight forum, but I never claim to always be right. If there is a good amount of rational, well-supported disagreement, I am more than willing to admit my fault and correct it. On the other hand, if I ponder the opposing argument critically and still think I'm right, I'm not going to give in spinelessly either.

Well, you could always create the "Super Spotlight" category. So that you'd have the good parks (Runner Ups), the great parks (SRUs), the kick-ass parks (Spotlights), and the legendary parks (Super Spotlights). I don't know, it'd be kind of weird, but that's what this is starting to sound like, since you had BGE which was a SRU, and this new one was obviously better, but not quite into the legendary status. But then, if you did this you'd probably have to go back and re-rank the old spotlights accordingly, and place the select few (RoB, Phantasia, etc.), into the new Super Spotlight category, and keep the old ones where they are. I don't think any old spotlights should be demoted into the SRU category though. I know if that happened to me, I'd be pissed.

But I don't see this happening.

I do think that the spotlights should be the absolute best parks out there, but at the same time I agree that you probably won't see too many of those. So I'd probably have to go with choice B, just because otherwise I think you'll only be seeing SRUs and RUs. Anyways, the community can always make the distinction between the classic spotlights and the elevated SRUs. They can probably provide enough encouragement to get someone to create an occasional uber-spotlight.

Anywho.

well done on creating this topic, corkscrewed. it's impressive how you always try to open yourself to the community. i think that's very beneficial for the site. it's also great that our opinions concerning spotlight selections are now listened to.

of course i voted a.
i think the invention of srus make it more than ever possible to have elitist and rare spotlights. i'd definitely welcome that. in my opinion, it's ne's image to be elitist. or is there another rct site thinking from day1 "we have the best parkmakers of the world"? and honestly, that's why i'm here, i'm loving it. seeing that go away would be horrible.
also would i like to see some of the weaker spotlights get de-spotlighted. if that means raindrop riviera and/or audrix towers become srus or ru or nothing, so be it. i have absolutely no problem with that. i've never considered them spotlight-worthy in the first place. audrix towers, sure, if i hadn't built in it

so what i'm saying is, that, in my opinion, choice b is completely against ne's nature. especially when i think of how i got the site to know when i came here.
nice parks, ru.
"super" parks, sru.
legends, spotlight.

edit; by the way, corkscrewed, why not get rid of some responsibility and have a spotlight selection committee like it was held with contests? wait, wasn't there even a committee like that once? oh, no, that was parkmaker selection, heh.

I vote A.

I definitely saw Ports of Magia as a borderline spotlight. Kinda like when you get a 90% on a test. Its an "A", but one or two more errors would have made it a "B". Ports of Magia scored a 90% in my gradebook. I certainly think Corky made the right decision on it, but some obviously think the park was graded on a curve. Now, the fact that it made spotlight means it crossed that minimum requirement to take a park to that level. In my eyes, that means on a typical grade scale, it takes AT LEAST 90% to acheive spotlight. I think that bar needs to be risen to at least 95% now. And, to ensure quality, I suggest at least two (iris & corky atm), maybe three judges to determine if it meets the 95% mark. Its the only way to keep NE Spotlight the elite of elite parks imo.

Now, this would certainly constitute more SRU's, but thats fine. SRU's are showcased extraordinarily well; with just as much commentary and even more screens. In my book, SRU is worth trying to get aside from spotlight. RUs and NE designs also hold up the rear, allowing new talents to shine for a day or two. I say, raise the spotlight bar to 95% (from 90% now) and keep everything under spotlight (SRU, RU, NE designs) the same as is.

Just my opinion, hope it helps....

I think its super beneficial to the site to have lots of parks released at NE, so the 3 level system to me is great. I agree that SRU's allow for Spotlight to maintain its mystique without harming the productivity of the site. If the bar for SRU's is set high enough it would still be a great achievement. If there's anything NE has been lacking of late it is park productivity, so it's fantastic to see the number of new releases and there are a number of advertised parks that interest me at the moment. I know I've take some inspiration from the number of parks being released and have been tinkering with my own projects again (and quite enjoying it). If it's not clear, I voted A. Let the spotlight be the rare gem in NE's crown!

Alot of it is to do with human perception. Call the 2 catagories Spotlight and Super Spotlight and people will feel better than if they won a super runnerup... its only a name i know but its a subtle change that would make a difference to peoples entusiasm to continuee on building.

The problem i see with the current system is this.
you have tried to split all parks that would of won a spotlight a year ago in to 2 catagories which is fair enough. however by making the additional grade a lower grade than spotlight you are not judging fairly. some of the SRU's are easily as good as older spotlights were. IMO if an additional grade is added it should be added at a higher tier than what is already there...

hmm hope that came across as i meant it and made some sense

also would i like to see some of the weaker spotlights get de-spotlighted. if that means raindrop riviera and/or audrix towers become srus or ru or nothing, so be it. i have absolutely no problem with that. i've never considered them spotlight-worthy in the first place. audrix towers, sure, if i hadn't built in it

in my opinion thats a horrible idea. Its like taking a medal off of someone in the olympics years after they won because they just dont cut it now.

The elitest element while good in some respects also seriously damages the community in others. new park makers are often intimidated by the site. Part of the reason for the lack of new park releases over recent times is the lack in up and coming talent (not quite so now but a few months ago). and as old parkmakers quit then productivity drops. I've seen parkmakers just flame newbies because theyre not at the same standard. Well they'll never be if you do that.

anyway back to the topic in hand. while i think creating a higher tier is a very very good idea in keeping something like a jewl in the crown. to add the teir in a lower slot seems wrong to me.

Spotlight - (SPot-Light) Creative, Consistent, Impressive park made by a member of the New Element web site.

I voted A.

A spotlight park shouldn't be a park where you think: "oh, that could of been done better" or "this area seems a little weak".

A spotlight park should leave you amazed the whole time you spend viewing. That's just for first impression though. It's even better when the effect last after viewing it many times. When I see a new spotlight posted on the main page, I want to instantly think that it must be legendary, or just 100% amazing.

edit; by the way, corkscrewed, why not get rid of some responsibility and have a spotlight selection committee like it was held with contests? wait, wasn't there even a committee like that once?

I was the commitee Hehe no, iris used to ask me every now and then. That's why i'm a mod in that forum.

Hmm let me look at the park and think about this.

null vote:


as I think its got to be a mixed of the two. you could have more spotlights but it doesn't mean they don't have to be lengendary at the same time we just need more people building parks. I agree the parkmakers that are on that list don't build enough nowadays me included, i'm 21 and got interested in other things.

I think Spotlights should be the wow-parks, as has been said, but I am thoroughly against the 'demotion' of parks that have already been given the award - that's unfair.

Also, I think this discussion is pretty irrelevant as the spotlight should remain the choice of the site leader - iris or corkscrewed. Sure people may disagree, but tough shit. I'd personally like to see the site leader set the bar high and not care if there's a dearth of spotlights - isn't that what SRUs are for? Myth Of The Lost Gem was a damn good park, but it didn't win spotlight because iris decided not to make it.

I've always thought that NE is (and should remain) a dictatorship in that way - it gives the site a lot more character and a lot more room for interesting discussion (interesting in that it involves more wme-like comments and less john/chapel-like comments, referring to the spotlight thread).

You pick the parks and we'll say whether we like them or not, but I don't think it should have too much bearing on what you choose. I'd personally like to see spotlight remain the top of the top, but of course you're always going to get variation - I think it's GREAT that PoM won spotlight, because it's a very nice park and serves as a great representation of what people are up to in rct2 at the moment.

And to all the people saying 'BOO YOU COPIED' - uh...finish your parks and then maybe you'll have a leg to stand on.

And Croky I completely disagree about your 'you aren't good enough to complain' argument - sure some people may be more informed than others, but being informed is NOT synonymous with being good at what it is you're informed about. The whole critics industry should make that blatantly obvious.

Corky, I respect you very much for doing this. I voted A, I think that a spotlight should be the top of the ladder, so to speak.

also would i like to see some of the weaker spotlights get de-spotlighted. if that means raindrop riviera and/or audrix towers become srus or ru or nothing, so be it. i have absolutely no problem with that. i've never considered them spotlight-worthy in the first place. audrix towers, sure, if i hadn't built in it

Although I see what you're getting at, as I thought about this myself the other day, I believe this is a very bad idea. As Roomie said, it makes no sense, and seems to be a slap in the face to those who got spotlights and maybe shouldn't.

I don't think people will complain if spotlights aren't unveiled often. If the bar is raised, the same amount of parks will be released as runner ups or super runner ups, and it will make a spotlight park all the more exciting.

Spotlight comittee of sorts sounds like a good idea, but this may be debasing your opinion. It's your call.

I've always thought that NE is (and should remain) a dictatorship

i can only shake my head over that. seriously, the dictatorship is, in my opinion, ne's blatant weakness. all the work is loaded on one person's shoulders, he's responsible for everything, but, more importantly, dictatorships are for airheads. the airheads being us, the, uhm, riffraff, if you get what i mean.
a lot of people here could be invovled in managing the site, which, in my opinion, would be dramatically beneficial. more people means more power, more things can be moved and done, the typical shit.
however, i have always had the feeling as if iris enjoyed his position, which was something i could never deal with, but corkscrewed is another story. meh, i don't know, maybe if you only consider it...

i'm glad to see how the poll turned out by the way

I'd like to second that notion of a democracy at NewElement instead of a dictatorship. I agree with everything posix said about that, basically. It would just seem to make sense if more people chose the spotlight instead of one. I think if the Commitee did come about, it would probably make a spotlight more accepting to the community since more people enjoyed it on the Comittee to begin with.

Right. Anyway, choice A seemed the most logical. Glad it's winning.

I'm not going to go into my complex reasoning (do I ever?), but I chose A.

by the way, corkscrewed, why not get rid of some responsibility and have a spotlight selection committee like it was held with contests?

I agree with this, too, actually. But I think it should be a very select committee, which should be chosen by the larger community.

Great feedback here. I definitely encourage more. If some of the lurkers can post, or maybe some retired parkmakers (if they come around anymore), that'd be cool. Same with "n00bs" as well.

And Croky I completely disagree about your 'you aren't good enough to complain' argument - sure some people may be more informed than others, but being informed is NOT synonymous with being good at what it is you're informed about. The whole critics industry should make that blatantly obvious.

I stand by this comment, though, because as far as things go around here, I haven't really seen it. Just in the PoM thread, it seems like most of the off-track comments about style and copying came from people not up to the level, while the really relevant comments came from people who are. I know this sounds terribly snobby, and I apologize if I come off that way, but it's my observation. NE's Critic Industry is very different from real life's critic industry.


Anyway, it's interesting so many people feel this way. To be honest, I was under the impression that most people weren't willing to go, say, a year between Spotlights. Of course, I'd appreciate more votes. We have over 1600 members here, so I'm sure at least 1/8 of them are still releatively active. Plus, if H2H matches can get 100 votes, so can this.

Please! More feedback! Honestly, I value this discussion.

I believe that a democracy when choosing Spotlights (to a very limited degree - maybe 3 people?) would work. I don't believe that NE should become a democracy in a wider sense. I've always thought that Iris, and now Corky have been/are doing a wonderful job, and for the most part, they seem to be on top of the situation. If we, the people, disagree, then this makes for interesting discussions such as this one.

But that really isn't the issue here.

Well for one the site will never be a democracy. Cork is the cheer-tator now, and once I return then I will be. That doesn't mean I don't go to my advisors every once in a while...even when I was running the site I would go to Corkscrewed or mantis or Ed or somebody to help me if I was unsure. And Cork has done the same by consulting me. Sorry, that part of the site will never change. With picking parkmakers, that's different and we went to the Parkmaker Committee for a while, but thats because different people have different perceptions on what qualifies a Parkmaker, as in productivity or talent being the more influential decision. Spotlights on the other hand are different, and I honestly think I've done a damn good job in the past in deciding. And even when I haven't, we've had the NE Awards to help right the ship if I ever made a bad decision. Over the course of the Spotlight history, I can only think of three or four spotlights that I feel maybe didn't deserve it. WME's "Lost Era Resort" (especially when GOD didn't make it, and GOD being clearly better), OZONE's "DreamWorks Great Australia" (he could have made a better park imo), Blind Guardian's "SAP Cataclysm" (Ed's parts being the only true spotlight-worthy parts imo), Aero's "Wormwood" (quality is a little off, but it WAS the first GOOD rct2 park...so I stand by this one), "Elisnore Falls" (we all know the story behind that one), and now maybe "Ports of Magia". Still, there are about FORTY spotlights left that are undoubtably worthy, so I don't wanna hear any of the "Spotlight's have lost their prestige".

Just to make a point, this is only the fourth spotlight this year. That's a one Spotlight every three months average. That's pretty damn elitist. Now I voted for choice A, but don't think that the Spotlight is going to get to a point where you have to get a top 5 List park just to win Spotlight. I know when I open a park whether or not it deserves to be Spotlight, and I'll admit with some parks I wasn't sure about, outside factors unfortuntately helped determine the outcome, which will no longer happen. But once I get back to picking all the Spotlights, if I see a park I feel is worthy, and you don't agree with it....well I'm sure you get the picture (insert witty line here about how much I won't care).

There will be no past parks demoted of any kind. The past is the past. There is no way that we can look now at what parks had what impact back then. Sure Wormwood isn't really that great by today's standards, but it really paved the way for RCT2 parkmaking at NE. I'm against the concept of a "Super Spotlight". That'd be getting a little carried away in my opinion. Runner-Ups, Super Runner-Ups, Spotlights, and Super Spotlights? That's a little ridiculous. I think the new three-tiered system that we have is great. Now just for my personal preference and for the record, I'll say that we will be raising the bar a bit for New Element. Parks like rctfreak2000's "Mileu" didn't make it. Parks such like BGE will be regular Runner-Ups, and Magia would have most likely gotten a SRU (and some parks that DID get SRU would probably get lower marks as well).

Now on the flip side of things. We say we're saving our Spotlights for the elite group of parkmakers who are worthy to build them. As of now, I believe that list includes the following parkmakers (those that have the talent to really build a SPOTLIGHT park by the new standards...if you're not on this list, please don't be offended...and I really hope you set out to prove me wrong)
1.Corkscrewed (with his newer style, post-WDE & DSS)
2.Evil WME (making a full RCT2 park)
3.Fatha' (he's Fatha'...come on)
4.John
5.Kevin
6.natelox
7.Phatage
8.slob
9.Titan
10.Turtle
11.Toon
12.x-sector
13.DarkJanus
14.Blitz-sama
15.Coaster Ed
16.mantis

Those are the 16 parkmakers at the site that as of right now at 4:30 eastern time, I think have the talent to win Spotlight. Now let's see....of that 16 only 2 of those have finished a park in the past year (Corkscrewed and Turtle). That's not a good percentage. If the top tier doesn't build, then they become obselete in my eyes. What good is the best parkmaker in the world if he doesn't build? Now going down the list again:
1.Corkscrewed - Hung up on finishing the underwhelming WDE imo...needs to skip over that to a new project with his new style.
2.Evil WME - Got hung up on captaining H2H3, but still needs to start a new park that shows his talents (hacking, landscaping, creativity)
3.Fatha' - On his way to releasing a new LL park, so a big step in the right direction. Should really get done Ports of Call too imo.
4.John - Who knows. I've kinda given up hope for his parks a long time ago.
5.Kevin - POD is on again off again. Hopefully he finishes it, that'd be a big step for NE.
6.natelox - Has finally experienced an RCT slump. The most reliable parkmaker at NE won't be able to pull us out of the mud this time.
7.Phatage - Really don't know what his itenerary looks like, but with collabos and Head2Head, I don't think I see a Spotlight park in his near future.
8.slob - Has a really great park in the very early stages. Whether or not it will ever leave those early stages is another question.
9.Titan - Has taken over a year to finish a Design/Mini and hasn't finished anything other then that. Doesn't look good as a preview to a full park construction.
10.Turtle - Actually one of the few productive, original, talented parkmakers left. No complaints here.
11.Toon - The God. Had to take months off for his business but hopefully we'll be saying more productivity here from him now.
12.x sector - Disappeared off the planet after this "Love Token" release, but his new solo looks very promising if he can keep building.
13.DarkJanus - See John's description here.
14.BlitzSama - See John's description here.
15.Coaster Ed - Doesn't have the time nor enthusiasm, nor motivation to build a full park imo. Plus has basically publically retired after this H2H season.
16.mantis - Hasn't played in quite some time...and with the continuous dwindling enthusiasm for LL, I don't see him starting soon.

Now, again...after looking at the 'top half' of our roster, it's really not looking so good when your thinking of future park releases. So sometimes you have to go to the next level. Take a player off the bench when the starters aren't getting it done, which is why I think Cork posted Artist's park. Again, I voted A. But B really isn't such a bad choice either. You guys put us admins in a very tough place when you don't produce parks. You say you want this Spotlight to be very elitist and rare...but look at the excitement the site's had in the past few days. SRU's and RU's don't generate the same type of buzz. And very often nowadays NE will go days, or weeks without an update and the site becomes dead....becuase we just don't have any parks to post. So please, stop making us in charge look bad, and start submitting parks that YOU think are more worthy.

Anyway, it's interesting so many people feel this way.  To be honest, I was under the impression that most people weren't willing to go, say, a year between Spotlights.

I find this a little amusing as well. There were a lot of rumblings about the long period of time without a spotlight and the then this is what happens when you post one. I felt like there was some community pressure building to have a spotlight winner announced, so I'm not surprised that something borderline was made spotlight (I'm not accusing you of conciously bowing to perceived pressure, but it might have played a role somewhere inside your brain). It is very interesting to see the results come in as they have so far.

I think the phrasing of the poll has a lot to do with the outcome. It could have been:

A: One spotlight a year but it's really good
B: Six spotlights a year but they aren't quite as good

And it would have turned out differently. Basically what it breaks down to (which iris just explained in detail) is that we all want to see the legendary parks and the continued mystique of the spotlight, but who is going to be making those parks? Look at iris' list of unproductivity and you get the picture. If we're waiting for the next UIX, it's going to be a long wait.