H2H3 / WEEK 7: IIIcons vs Vehemences

How bout we call it a cool idea and leave it at that? I think a lot of the rubber band stretching in either case was done by other people (Beast trainer, Toon and cBass' custom scenery) and ultimately, who gives a damn about rubberbands anyway? It's not about how far you can stretch something, it's about coming up with a cool idea and then making it work. If all people take out of Cajamarca is that it stretched the game farther than I'll be very disappointed indeed. And I think Blitz and DJ feel the same way.

Indeed, for Ed, RCT is merely the means to express a vision. And the crazy hacks are merely the "special effects" he's "invented" to produce that vision.

If all people take out of Lord of the Rings is that it had awesome special effects, and they totally miss the heart of the story, then Peter Jackson would be quite disappointed indeed, as is Ed if you suggest that his hacking is what stands out rather than his story.

(we can keep the movie analogy.... that's much more down Ed's alley! )

Sorry guys. I understand that there is far more to the park than what new ground it breaks. As there is with any park.

To tell the truth, that rubber band thing was settled a long time ago and left behind. I just thought of that pun two days later. Not very punctual I must say.

Indeed, for Ed, RCT is merely the means to express a vision.  And the crazy hacks are merely the "special effects" he's "invented" to produce that vision.

If all people take out of Lord of the Rings is that it had awesome special effects, and they totally miss the heart of the story, then Peter Jackson would be quite disappointed indeed, as is Ed if you suggest that his hacking is what stands out rather than his story.

(we can keep the movie analogy.... that's much more down Ed's alley! )

yes, i agree. movies work much better than rubberbands. instead of snapping, they can flop.

Anyway, it's kindof a bittersweet defeat for me because I love your park so much, not to mention it's nice to see you actually finish something. And it reminds me of the great things we were planning for RCT2 before the redraft. I've loved the potential of RCT2 for some time now, but the universe seems to be conspiring to keep me in LL. If anything, I hope this matchup stands as a lasting reminder of the infinite potential of both games. I guess I'm one step closer to retirement -- won't be long now folks.

Retirement?

Permanent retirement?



Ed...

ride6

Indeed, for Ed, RCT is merely the means to express a vision.  And the crazy hacks are merely the "special effects" he's "invented" to produce that vision.

If all people take out of Lord of the Rings is that it had awesome special effects, and they totally miss the heart of the story, then Peter Jackson would be quite disappointed indeed, as is Ed if you suggest that his hacking is what stands out rather than his story.

(we can keep the movie analogy.... that's much more down Ed's alley! )

yes, i agree. movies work much better than rubberbands. instead of snapping, they can flop.

*rimshot*

Late reply, unfortunatly. I only got to look at "Cajamarca 1532." I thought it was good, but I did not enjoy it as much as previous works from CoasterEd. I loved the landscaping. The land was raised in such a way that we would usually use brown colouring (for the rock effect), but using the grass was incredibly refreshing. I also liked the terraced crops (I think they were crops) very much. What took away from the park was it's sterile atmosphere. Lines were too clean, gardens too manicured and architecture too symetrical. There was no sense of realism and hence no reason to believe it was real. I spoke to iris about the park and he said "Blood Island" was missing something and "Cajamarca 1532" filled that void; but I think it's a step down. "Blood Island" had more details, more creativity, more grit, more realism. That touches on another intresting subject; "Cajamarca 1532" seemed too similar to "Blood Island." Something newer would have been more appealing. I love your style CoasterEd, atleast your older style (you said the park wasn't finnished the way you wish due to time issues though), but if you're changing it up, more power to you! Your style will inevitibly change, but I know your creativity never will.

It's funny that people say it looks like RCT2 because I really rushed to finish it on time. It would have been a lot more detailed if I'd had more time and it would have looked a lot more like RCT2.

That sounds like some political statement; as if you're trying to garner the votes of those who just vote for the RCT2 parks because they don't own RCTLL. Perhaps it is my conservatism speaking (I consider myself quite liberal; but as I grow older I become more conservative because, well, change is bad right ), but why try to make RCTLL look like RCT2?

Well, I guess I take it to mean something a little different. When I say that I'm trying to make LL look like RCT2 what I mean is that I've learned something from looking at RCT2 parks and the level of detail they can achieve with 1/4 tile objects. And I think part of taking the game further has always been incorporating what you see into your own style to make it better. So I don't see why I can't use some of what RCT2 can do in LL parks. There's no rule that says buildings in LL must be made out of raised terrain and ghost train windows. That was an adaptation to the tools available. So why stop there? We can keep adapting to new methods in order to reach that ultimate goal of perfection. I don't think this style is perfect for everything, but I barely got started with it in Blood Island and I wanted to see what else I could do with it. Unfortunately, time really cut me short. Look at the building in the far corner next to the farmhouse which has all the poles sticking off of it. That's more what I was going for with the other buildings but I just ran out of time. I did step one, build the foundations for the buildings, but that's as far as I got. Even the gold mine entrance which the towers stick out of was a rush job. And the pyramid isn't even started as far as I'm concerned. It was going to look more like the temple in Blood Island with stacked blocks and weeds growing everywhere and scaffolds. I'm thinking about finishing it just to show people what I'm thinking because it's not like anything that's been done before so it's hard for me to explain it. So anyway, it's not like I said "I'm going to make LL look like RCT2" as if that's any kind of important goal to have. I really like what I've seen from Mala in RCT2 and Phatage and cBass and Toon and Timothy Cross and I wanted to take some of what I love about their work and bring it to my own work in a way. So in my mind the two games kind of blur together. Parkmaking is parkmaking, it's just the tools available in each game are a little different. The trouble is, people seem to take into them preconcieved notions of what a park should be. That's why I've never endorsed any of the "Long live LL" talk even though I've only ever built in LL. Cause it's not about choosing sides to me, it's about making parks and if you've got an LL disc and an RCT2 disc, what difference does it make which one you have to put in to view a certain park?

And anyway, I agree with you that it's lacking in the realism of Blood Island. Details spell realism to me, as I've explained before. Blood Island and Battlefield RCT and Erwindale and Cataclysm and even egyptopia to a lesser extent exemplify what I mean by realism through clutter. Clutter looks real to me. I know you understand this Nate cause I see it in your latest work. And that's what I was going towards with this park too. I just never made it to the detail stage of it. And about it being similar to Blood Island -- for one thing that tropical jungle look is a big part of my imagination from growing up and playing pirates all of the time so it's a theme I come back to a lot. And also, it's been over a year since I made Blood Island (or anything else for that matter) so it didn't feel to me like I was treading over the same ground, more like I was rediscovering myself as a parkmaker. It helps to start with something a little familiar. The next one will be something very different, I assure you.

w00t! There'll be a "next" one!

snip

Thank you for that, ed. I've been saying that forever. Why we all just accepted raised land + ghost train windows as defining what is "real" has always I think made it difficult to actually define realism in rct and thus I've always just said what people call realism is what i call "just another style". And people tell me my parks are "fantasy" and that they don't convey any sort of realism. Fair enough, I don't see any more realism in what they do either. It is the details that define a park, that let you grasp it. That's why I strive to build as far out as I can. If I can give something enough detail, then perhaps people will believe it. I've always believed my parks to be solid and imaginable vistas just as much as those "realistic" parks. Atmosphere and execution. Doesn't matter what the theme is, if those 2 things are solid, then you have a believable park.

And I totally agree with what you said on "game choosing". It's not about which game you use, it's about how you use it

Cut it out you guys, you're making me want to build a full solo park in LL! Actully that's something I've been thinking about doing for nearly a year now. Currently I've built one and it was shit. A mere warm up to single themed areas and coasters that would follow...

However Ed's rambling and Amity Cove have really inspired me. Maybe I'll have to give LL a shot again, on the big scale...

It's something to do with the way detail in LL is created, it seems more magical than it doesn in rct2...

ride6

Do it.

^ Yeah, everyone's doing it these days...

Anyways, I found my RCT1 disk (actually, it mysteriously appeared right next to the computer), so I finally could check out Cajamarca. It's really a shame that two good parks had to go up against each other (although it makes things exciting!), but my vote definitely would have been for this one. It's so... beautiful, and not in a "WOW" kind of way, but rather the kind of beauty that makes me have a deep respect for the builders (like the Three Villages). Everything flowed so well... the coloring was excellent; everything was just great. I'm glad I was able to see it.

Ghost Cell Crisis, on the other hand, was so... extreme. I've never seen anything quite like it, what but I saw, I liked! The whole atmosphere was just brilliant... the foliage, the flowing architecture... it was all just genius, and applaud them, because they deserve a win. The only thing I didn't like was when I lost sight of the coaster and changed views, I would be totally thrown off and lose it even more... but there's not much you can do about that.

Excellent on both parks... both deserved it, but unfortunately only one could take the prize. I look forward to future work from all four builders.

One more vote and we crack 100!

it'll never happen! Stop such foolish dreams al!

^ & ^^, i think we just cracked 100 votes...

i cant believe the vote percent.

^ & ^^, i think we just cracked 100 votes...

w00t!

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IT'LL NEVER BREAK 110! NOT ON YOUR LIFE!

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IT'LL NEVER BREAK 110! NOT ON YOUR LIFE!