H2H3 / WEEK 7: IIIcons vs Vehemences

And this is comeing from the two "worst" teams (Record wise). H2H is really even this year.

I'm going Vehemences. The IIIcons looks a lot stronger from the overview and as amazing as it is in concept and exicution it lacked the 'fun factor' that I felt loud and strong in V's.

Basically the land tiling seemed a bit over rough and such. I really feel for you guys having placed so many blocks up so high... That had to take forever... The V's had a dueler concept there that had me downright nervous at times and the flyer was perfectly done as to not even need breaks at the station.

I have a vague idea who (well one person for each) built the parks however I know to keep that to myself. I will say that I feel sorry for whichever team losses because both of them really rolled out the big guns.

ride6

Ghost Cell Crisis
Its parks like this that are really pushing RCT2 to new limits, demonstrating what can be done when you combine some skill, quality custom scenery and a fuckload of patience. I really have to give props to whoever made this park, b/c it probably has more man hours involved in its construction than I put in one work week. I mean, the fact that the entire fucking park is virtually all quarter tile is just stunningly amazing, but also combined with building at staggering heights takes this park to a whole new level of parkmaking. The coaster does have slow parts, but I agree with phatage that it doesnt really mean the pacing sucks. It just adds realism and increases the asthetics imo. And on top of it all, some toon objects that I have never seen. (those circular stairs = ) . Anyway, I wish I could put all my thoughts about this park into words, but that would take too long. I have a couple guesses who built this, but also for some reason think the parkmaker involved is someone totally unexpected. Amazing, just amazing.

Unfortunately, I can't see the Vehmences park, but it does appear to be an awesome park. I really wish I had LL, but I don't. To remain fair, I will null my vote, but whoever built the IIcons park should considered for MVP.

Cajamarca represents one of perhaps four examples of what I feel to be the zenith of LL minipark work (the other three being, of course, Erwindale, Battlefield RCT and Escape From Monkey Island). I had to double take when I read that it was LL, as the screens appeared to be rct2. I had to double take when I saw two coaster trains flying at each other up either side of a loop. I had to double take when I saw one half of the map named 'City In The Clouds', as it is, indeed, up to the 31 height mark. Not only does this build on the aforementioned minis in terms of factual basis, powerful imagery and technical skill, but it finds room to innovate: said duelers, extensive exploration with Ozone's architecture, layering, foresight, environment...

I appreciate the effort and ingenuity that went into Ghost Cell Crisis - this is a different type of genius at work - but as an LL fan and as an admirer of the art of restraint in parkmaking, Cajarmarca is my dream. Of course there are petty misfortunes - the peep jam, the lack of naming (and, in the case of named scenery, trivial/predictable use thereof), the slow flyer sections, the missed possibilities (indoor temple theming, for example, although in the presence of so much else it's difficult to complain too much).

Frankly this post isn't really doing justice.


(oh, and as a postscript, I will understand if this park doesn't please the rct2 masses and loses the vote, but I think it would be unfortunate on the part of the makers, as they deserve all the plaudits they receive).

I'm throwing my vote at IIICons, only because I like the sky-island theme... both parks are so visually stimulating... but I like the atmosphere of the IIIcons park better.

See, but here's the thing. You probably could have seen the Icons' park coming. With the advent of land blocks and cBass' black background it was only a matter of time. People already were creating horizontal versions of that months ago, with different lands separated by black spaces. Add land blocks to the picture, able to be placed floating at any point in midair without anything beneath, and it was only a matter of time before someone thought of a vertical arrangement of the separate lands idea. Old Red showed us the capability of creating whole lands floating in midair, and this is taking it in a different direction. Now, given that, the Icons' park is awesome because pulling off the technical challenges behind the idea sounds pretty damn hard (except I just learned about that control-key-same-elevation trick which might have made it a lot easier).

The Vehemences' park on the other hand is IMO one of the greatest tricks ever pulled off in RCT. They made an LL park look like RCT2 with rapids track and stuff, and did it well. I am glad to see that it fooled people at first because it confirms that it was a triumph of LL, and not a failed attempt. I am not a die-hard LL-only kind of guy but when RCT2 seems to be having all the fun nowadays (look at the Icons' park), and all the ideas are happening there (also, look at the top two Pro Tour entries), it is great to see a totally new concept pulled in LL five years after its debut. And one that even is a reference to RCT2. Saying "hey now, this old game's still got some fire left in it. There are still many new doors to be opened." Not to mention that it is far harder to pull off any sort of a gimmick in LL than in RCT2. No, I couldn't have seen this coming like the RCT2 park.

See, but here's the thing. You probably could have seen the Icons' park coming. With the advent of land blocks and cBass' black background it was only a matter of time. People already were creating horizontal versions of that months ago, with different lands separated by black spaces. Add land blocks to the picture, able to be placed floating at any point in midair without anything beneath, and it was only a matter of time before someone thought of a vertical arrangement of the separate lands idea. Old Red showed us the capability of creating whole lands floating in midair, and this is taking it in a different direction. Now, given that, the Icons' park is awesome because pulling off the technical challenges behind the idea sounds pretty damn hard (except I just learned about that control-key-same-elevation trick which might have made it a lot easier).

The Vehemences' park on the other hand is IMO one of the greatest tricks ever pulled off in RCT. They made an LL park look like RCT2 with rapids track and stuff, and did it well. I am glad to see that it fooled people at first because it confirms that it was a triumph of LL, and not a failed attempt. I am not a die-hard LL-only kind of guy but when RCT2 seems to be having all the fun nowadays (look at the Icons' park), and all the ideas are happening there (also, look at the top two Pro Tour entries), it is great to see a totally new concept pulled in LL five years after its debut. And one that even is a reference to RCT2. Saying "hey now, this old game's still got some fire left in it. There are still many new doors to be opened." Not to mention that it is far harder to pull off any sort of a gimmick in LL than in RCT2. No, I couldn't have seen this coming like the RCT2 park.

I completely agree Panic. As soon as I saw Old Red's park, the idea of an island in the sky made its way into my mind. I had even planned on attempting one myself, but I wasn't going to start until after H2H. Seeing what the IIIcons have made, however, has changed my mind. This would blow anything I could do out of the water. You may have been able to see it coming, but its still the first of its kind.

The V's park was also extremely original, even if it was based on past LL parks. The fact that most people probably thought it was an rct2 park from the screens ( or even tried to open it in rct2 ) shows that LL is still right up there with the "new and improved" rct2. While I'm not a fan of LL as much as rct2, I greatly respect those who play LL because of the amount of time spent on every detail of the park, as well as the creativity that is displayed in parks such as this. LL limits you, but because it does, you get really creative.

Both parks are very well done, and probably one of them will get my vote for best of season, but I did decide to go with the Vehemences park. Like Gutterflower though, I'm just going on instinct here, because I honestly can't decide which I like more.

I'm honestly on the fence here. Both parks are exceptional, especially the IIICon's. I don't know, I guess Ghost Cell was a bit too far out for me, and was sort of messy. But the Vehemence's was a happy medium. It's creative, fun, and pleasing to the eye. And both the coasters were awesome. I think the Vehemences take it for me due to more rides, and just being more beautiful.

Both parks deserve an applaud, though. This is probably our best round.

And Cajamarca had Balsa Boats on the beach!
I thought that was nifty.

Definitely Vehemences......the timing of the coaster/rides were great! The theme was also executed very well...

it's so wrong that one of these parks will eventually be a loser and earlier in the season 'strange happenings in time' won.

(no offense raven and other guy that worked on it, of course)

really, these are two awesome displays of RCT.

The Vehemence's was pretty sweet. The style shift from the civilized part to the temple was really cool. Also, the launch coaster(s) were extremely well designed. The foliage part was the best feature on the entire map. It kind of reminded me of how natelox themed his Three Villages, which takes a lot of skill.
The boat was, without saying, incredible....

IIIcon's park was amazing too. The whole configuration was neat. I was really attracted to the fact that the coaster played a part in both levels of the map. The foliage job was pretty and the architecture was pretty good. Not great, but pretty good. Very nice job.

The Vehemences ended up getting my vote, though. Props to both of the builders.

From the overview I thought Cajamarca is a rct2 park, I was stunning when I saw that its a sv4.
The archytecture with the Inca Stones is awesome and the Duellers... unbelievable.

Ghost Cell Crisis has a great idea behind it and if you know the time in which it was built we have
a very good result

i actually, honestly, disagree with you panic.

Although i see the point in seeing the rct2 park coming, i definitely didn't see this park coming. It looks lovely, the land really looks chunky, the water, the architecture. The coaster was more than brilliant. People say its too slow... they should look at how it catches that just under 20 mph zone every single time and dives, sweeps, and varies the speed incredibly. Think about it this way, how would you go about making a coaster in a landscape that... floats? A regular coaster is almost not an option! The coaster showcased here fits in perfectly and i think the coaster took a lot of skill and hard work. I'd say this is actually my favorite H2H park of all time, even with its few sloppy flaws. I do agree with this aspect to a certain extent.

The part i don't agree on is that you didn't see the ll park coming. This rapid using style has been showcased before by the parks mantis mentioned above. Although it takes a lot of skill to make it look as beautiful as it does, i really don't like the look of the rapids track that much. The coasters all seemed like a mess, and i had no idea what they were doing. The connected track is very cool though. The part that really makes this park for me is the landscaping. I haven't seen such a perfect landscape in ages. I LOVE the way the maker used the grass. The foliage seems to fit perfectly, the rock sides fit perfectly, its all... amazing.

By far the best matchup.

The coaster in the IIICons park was truly genius. One of the top 5 coolest coasters I've ever seen and that's without all the crazy cool theming. Add that to the mix and it soars above everything else. Really a stunning piece of work. Showcases everything RCT2 does well. In fact, before this competition started I was saying that RCT2 will have a major advantage in this competition. It was more even in H2H2 but now with all the custom scenery that has come out and the increasing shift in the member pool towards more exclusively RCT2 players, I knew a LL park had to be twice as good as it's RCT2 counterpart to win. And for the most part that's been true although there have been even less LL parks than I expected. The Mollesters have released all LL parks and aside from that there's the two Vehemences parks, including the one this week. And I think you'll see that in the votes. The longer this goes on, the more the RCT2 advantage will wedge these two apart. But I don't want to make this just about RCT2 vs LL cause that isn't fair to the people who built this. It's a fantastic idea pulled off to perfection. Would it be nice if there was more of it? Of course, but that's the only thing I can find fault it. It definately leaves me wanting more. And that's a very good thing.

In comparison, I could make a pretty strong argument for going with the LL one this time though. It's definately not an idea on the genius level of Ghost Cell Crisis and neither of the rides are as impressive, but then again, there's some things you just can't do in LL and floating islands obviously is one of them. I see what Panic meant about this park having less precedence. The hacks and theming tricks have been used before but not in the ways they've been used here. It's more of a technical achievment than anything else. That dueling coaster is really sloppy if you just look at the track, but if you watch it in motion the timing of the trains is what's impressive. The flyer is fairly typical, maybe on the above average side for a ride of that type, but nothing unprecedented. And the boat is just when I think about how tough it is to make something like that in LL. That's a lot of Beast hacking if you want to talk about patience. But then, while this park wins in scale and technical achievment, it also has some very disappointing unfinished parts like the pyramid which was no doubt meant to be something more than just filler and a lot of the buildings, especially in the elevated city, look suspiciously unfinished. Unnamed even. But like mantis said, you can take issue with it's faults or you can appreciate what it is. I think landscaping and 'shrubbery' and technical creativity are really the biggest strengths of LL parkmaking and those are the standouts here.

So ultimately it is a matter of preference cause each one is very stunning in it's own way. I'm not going to say 'may the best park win' cause I can't even tell myself which is the better park. There's really no way to compare them. I'll just say 'jolly good show man' to all those involved and wait to see what fate decides.

oh the irony

haha, nice think-alike.
pity cajamarca is going to lose. not really surprising though when the rct2 park is probably thrice as much viewed. lovely how the ll park gives away the taste of the good old days...
of course, i voted for it. the rct2 one was maybe a fun thing or so. sort of wannabe phatage or cbass style. nothing for me.

I want to crack 100 votes again.

dream all you like, corky

*sings the lyrics to ddr song "little boy" just for corky*

How about Dream a Dream instead? Cuz Little Boy is just... pedophelic.

well, that's why i'm singin it for ya, duh.

...

It's sad that this match-up isn't getting as much attention as it warrants. Do people not realise that this is the perfect opportunity to learn how they can improve their RCT through innovation and technical refinement?