New Element - Park - Busch Gardens Asia

MCI Offline

My mum said I could be anything I wanted, so I became a cult.

Anyway, I give you the most jealous review in RcT2Elitists history:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KpY75ci1ctU

Congrats on the archievement rob! Truly one of the greatest parks this game has seen.

robbie92 Offline

First of all, thank you so much for the feedback and responses to this park. There were years when I imagined that this park was going to sit on my hard-drive as a half-empty map for so long, and I never expected it to be finished and garner the positive response it's had.

Like many of you guys, I feel that the score, while I'm grateful I got it, is definitely inflated and undeserving; BGA is far from perfect, and there's definitely things that I wish I did better, or even just did differently. That being said, writing off the park as undeserving due to it being unfinished, or saying that I did the park a disservice by wrapping it up, feels like an actual disservice to the content that was in the park. I hit the object limit almost ten times between the release and when I first hit the limit before H2H7, and the constant threat of that looming over my head caused me to pull the trigger on this park sooner than later; I probably could've spent another few months really culling the park's objects and reconfiguring rides and areas and landscaping, but I wanted to get this park out sooner rather than later. Other than some missing objects in places and some relatively thin foliage on the outskirts of the park, I think BGA is finished. It generally falls in-line with what I envisioned the park to be, and it accomplishes what I set out to do.

Additionally, I think any comments about how the park is purely technical and doesn't contain much "parkmaking" is a bigger disservice to what is there. I spent a lot of times working on how to compose areas, how to make layouts make sense, and how the park visually layers to make sure that the park didn't just rest on technical merits alone, since those will adapt and change as the game and community progresses; the parkmaking I strove for was more related to the overall composition, aesthetics, and atmosphere of the park.

Thanks again, and I'll respond more individually to the comments in the topic as time arise throughout the week.

Steve Fan Offline

Finally got a chance to look at this. This isn't probably going to be the lengthy kind of review that I wanted to do, but I'm at work now and posting on the mobile site.

Rob, first and most importantly, well done on finishing this. This is truly and inspiration to see you slave over this for years and come toe to toe with the object limit but STILL finish, against the odds. Most people (myself, specifically) would have just said "fuck this and fuck this game" but you stuck it out, and that's truly the hardest part.

Now, the park. Where to start? It's staggering and incredibly well done, but unfortunately, I think the object limit held this back from being a true masterpiece. I am doing my best to look at the park for what it is, and not what it could be, but I admit now that it's hard to look past it. I think it still deserves the score it got simply due to the sheer scale and detail and planning of the map, though. You progressively get better with your parks, Robbo.

The entrance area might be my favorite part of the park. It immediately sucks you in and I get the feeling it was your favorite part of the park to create. Strong architecture and layout, and wonderful Busch atmosphere. The chairlift station is so simple yet effective. And those strollers! Awesome. Plus the custom flat was clean, and the large theater is how bigger buildings should be. Great job here.

The Southeast Asia(?) area with Naga is probably my runner up for best area, again, for that Busch atmosphere. Naga is a great take on Loch Ness and the supports and layout are excellent. However, those rapids - wow. I'm getting a feeling you took inspiration from Kali Rapids at Animal Kingdom, but I could be wrong. Great station and queue and perfect execution of the diagonal drop. The log flume is nice too, but I feel like it suffered from the object limit issues. Definitely could have used more theming I think, but the technicality and layout of it was well done.

Japan has a great introduction from leaving Southeast Asia, because you cross the bridge and see the mass of towering supports over the water. Great, great stuff. The area as a whole is nice, but it probably feels the least Busch-inspired to me. Still, architecture is great and the whole area feels distinctly Japanese. Shinobi (badass name) is a great mash up of both Cheetah Hunt and Verbolton and it settles into the surroundings nicely. I really like those red Japanese awning things too. And another cool chairlift station! I dig the chairlift in this park, don't know why.

Finally, Jagganath. Wow. Just wow. Would I go as far to say this is the best invert the game has seen? Maybe in our current, modern era. It definitely gives Denali a run for its money. Such a great layout and those supports - damn. You have infinite patience, Rob. My favorite part of the ride is the entrance to the cobra roll along the shore with the landscaping and such. Really atmospheric. India as a whole is strong, one of the strongest in the park again, because it has the Busch feel going for it (but not as much as other areas!). Really liked the carousel and the big restaurant (fuck, forgot the name sorry Rob!), great architecture there. The station and queue for the invert was really great too; it was very easy to imagine myself there. And tigers! Cool. Wait, are there animals in all these areas? I don't remember seeing much else. Busch isn't strictly an animal park franchise is it?

Tibet! This is Pacifcoaster's area right?

Just kidding. This is a great little spot in the park. Nailed the Sheikra vibe very well. Layout and ride details are solid and the diagonal splashdown was cool. Overall this area seemed a little busy for my tastes, could be because of all the overhangs and detailed buildings under them, but it was still fairly immersive. However, apart from the nod to Sheikra this area didn't seem very Busch to me. Not a problem though, still a great area.

China might be my least favorite part of the map. Not to say that it's bad, it just doesn't seem like you had as much fun with this area as the others. It almost kind of looked like you didn't know what to do with it. Though, there's some good stuff here. The main stretch of buildings is nice and that burst of color with the hyper's station is wonderful (forget the name again, sorry Rob). The hyper itself was pretty good, probably my least favorite coaster in the park. Not because it was bad but just because it wasn't exactly groundbreaking but I can see that was kind of what you were going for. That turnaround behind Jagganath is sick though. I also really liked the water ride here, with the cool little Chinese pagodas in the queue and stuff. The Sesame Street kids area was pretty cool too and I liked that you gave it a theme like China. However, that Elmo dragon seems like it'd be terrifying in reality, hahah.

All right, I guess that was a long review after all. Mobile site be damned! Wonderful work on this Rob. Deserves the rating it got and all the hype that comes with it. Now, looking back at the construction of this park, it seems easy in comparison to how you're gonna top it with your next one.

That was a reference to finishing DCA, by the way...

Never stop building, Rob, and congratulations on such an achievement.

Coasterbill Fan Offline

I've got to say I keep opening up this park and that Tibet area is so fucking fantastic. The more I look at it the more I love it. The whole park is great but Tibet is flat out ridiculous.

alex Fan Offline

Congratulations on persevering and releasing this park Rob! The spotlight is well deserved. Here is your well deserved wall of text:

I'll start by mentioning that I was never as excited about this park as most other members, probably. Partly because I've only been at the site a year, barely a third of the lifespan of this park. Mainly because I'd never been as inspired by Ultra-realistic parks. I can appreciate the way realistic parks use backstage and infrastructure detailing to tell a more three-dimensional story but up until this release I hadn't really seen one that had the atmosphere, beauty and depth of theming of some of the RoB era spotlights and the LL Classics. I was won over by Busch Gardens Asia!

Although this is clearly a very modern realism park, I noticed a lot of tropes that reminded me of classic NE parks - It has themes, big 'signature' coasters and a centre lake! The entrance area forgoes a parking lot - instead we're immediately presented with beautiful structures. The atmosphere feels distinctly warmer than other realism parks, partly due to the reddish paths and lush foliage but also because of the rich theming and how you kept the backstage stuff subtle.

The Ride Lineup was something I loved about this park. It seems you didn't just put in coasters you thought a realistic park ought to have but ones you genuinely wanted to build too. Instead of getting Boomerangs and Batman clone's we get original, exciting coasters like Jagganarth. There's little to say about this coaster that hasn't already been said. It flows so beautifully and I love the support work (somehow the combination of density + brown colour gives it a rickety, made-out-of-wooden-poles feel.). Shinobi is not only a unique coaster but remarkable in that there seems to be no room for the outdoor section amongst the buildings and path yet it somehow belongs perfectly and looks beautiful from every angle. Doesn't distract at all and is in harmony everything else. Even the "safest" coaster - Nagas - still had bags of character because of the iconic supports which work wonderfully in giving the coaster a sense of history and iconic-ness - for lack of a better word. Garuda, whilst being a fairly straightforward Dive machine was made interesting by it's mountain-like presence over the Tibet area. I thought you composed the 2nd half of it very cleverly too - with the figure 8 of the drop/turn/splashdown. Fenghuan is my least favourite coaster but is still solid. I have no idea how people make hyper coasters unique or interesting but you did a pretty good job here. The upward spiralling turnaround into an underground dive is a good moment. Anchor River Rapids is compact whilst stunningly themed. Suzhou Splashdown looks simple but is deceptively well thought out. Great idea to have it be a renovation from a scenic river cruise into a splashdown. The symmetry you've created with the bridge and the 180 turn with the pagoda in the middle is a great touch. Had you opted for the standard rectangular layout this would have been ruined by the station position and in my opinion this vaguely triangular footprint is more attractive.

You're obviously superb at architecture and the park wasn't a disappointment in this regard. Each area had a distinct, authentic style and within the areas each building had individual character. There are times when I think you could dial the detailing back (when stuff glitches) but the buildings all feel very alive and atmospheric. I think I was first won over to your micro-detail style when I looked through Worlds Fair during h2h. The victorian archways, bridges and ironwork just wouldn't have had the same immersion if executed in a simpler style. The same goes for the architecture and theming here. Some standout moments; Angkor temple; the bird show awning structure (I really liked the spiky modernist look. Somehow didn't feel out of place.) Naga's station (screams SE asia); the understated japanese buildings surrounding the chairlift station. The entire Instanbul and Tibet areas were standouts (if thats possible??). All the elements in both these areas just came together really well to create beautiful, believable and immersive spaces. The bigger picture is equally as important as details and the composition throughout this park is exceptional.

Of course this park has some rough edges and isn't perfect. I desperately wanted to find reasons to not vote this 100% and was very close to going with 95 because of some of the bare spots around the edges and a few particularly conspicuous sunken trees. I decided in the end it wasn't enough to take away from the sheer brilliance or ruin the immersion. Truly a landmark release and my favourite RCT2 park. Well done again Rob!

Cocoa Offline

Alright, can't let this park go unreviewed

This may be the most realistic park I've ever seen. Not because of extreme detailing or backstage work but because the whole picture is so well thought out and comes together so well. The history of the park just feels so correct and screams busch gardens, and all of those elements are reflected in the park itself perfectly. Architecture is amazing and inspiring and there's a lot to see everywhere. Especially in India I think you totally smashed it, thats probably my favorite area (or maybe Tibet, although I think it feels more lively because that's where all the peeps end up ). You definitely can tell where the object limit pushed you and its a shame it had to be taken out on removing lush foliage, which I think would have pushed the atmosphere even farther and in a more busch-gardens-y direction. But regardless I totally understand why that couldn't happen.

Anyway I'm not gonna post a wall of text extolling each area but you really did a fantastic job Robbie, something that I'm sure we'll all be looking to for inspiration in years to come. Hopefully here's to a new era of themed parks, not just realistic ones

robbie92 Offline

First of all, thank you all for the comments so far. I figure it'd take some time and have a lot of redundancies if I try to respond individually to each comment so far, so I'll try to make it a bit more universal and hit some of the more repeated topics.

'UNFINISHEDNESS': I can't lie by saying that the park wasn't rushed towards the end of the project. Knowing that I had a very busy work schedule ahead of me, I took my week off for Christmas and New Years to really push through the final bits of wrap-up on the park, including outside foliage, object-culling, peep work, naming, etc. Through this, I had Liam help me with a lot of the grunt work, as well as testing. Unfortunately, in this rush to wrap up the park during my free time, I ended up missing things like peep jams and unfinished buildings. However, the foliage out of the park, while spare, was about as finished as I'd hope to get it; if there was no object limit, perhaps it'd be more lush and thick, like was originally intended. As a whole, the park itself is finished in a sense that I completed what I set out to do. The areas are about as full as planned, and the ride lineup is at the level that I anticipated for the park. From an aesthetic standpoint, few things beyond some of the foliage thickness were really compromised by finishing under the limit. I ended up skirting around the limit for seven months or so, hitting it multiple times in the process. I think the comments about the park being unfinished, while valid in a sense that there's certain bits that missed the cleaning up process, are pretty unfounded from a sense that the park itself is pretty full of content and scope; it was an ambitious project, and I think it achieved what it set out to do.

SCORE: I'm very grateful to the panel for voting this spotlight, and quite frankly flabbergasted about the score. However, like many of people have stated, it's definitely inflated and not quite deserved. That being said, I think a lot of the reasons people said it wasn't deserved, a lot of which I addressed above, were definitely inflated. Yes, it had mistakes, and no, it wasn't unfinished. There was a ton of effort poured into the park, and a lot of time was spent making sure the things that I felt mattered (i.e. layouts, park composition, aesthetics, and general atmosphere) were perfected before submission. BGA is by no means a perfect park, but I'm lucky that it resonated well with the panel and the community. A lot of the park's goals were to marry the seemingly disparate approaches to "realistic" parkmaking, where parks either would heavily compromise theming in favour of realistic details, or vice versa; with this park, I wanted to make sure that both would have a presence in the park. I think that balance between more immersive theming, along with the typical detail-oriented clean execution of realism, was able to strike more of a chord with the panel than some other releases which may have skewed towards one side or the other. Hopefully this can get more people to play with theming!

LAYOUTS: Thanks for the feedback on the coaster layouts for this park! I feel a key component of any strong park should be some killer rides; it is "roller coaster tycoon" after all. Jagganath was literally the first thing built on the map, and it really drove me to work on the park, if only to give the ride a proper setting that could match its layout. In the same vein as the main park goals, in trying not to compromise both theming and realistic details, a lot of time was spent making sure that all of the coasters would be as believable as any rides in a high-tier realistic park, including any realistic details needed to support the ride. For a lot of these rides, the supports were some of the most fun things to make, as the nature of the layouts and their interactions around them required some ingenuity to make both plausible and "attractive." In particular, Naga's supports were a blast to make, as Arrow coasters have less of a grace to them as B&Ms and thus call for more industrial or elaborate supports. The hyper, while not an afterthought, was definitely the most typical layout of the big coasters in the park, and I can see how it doesn't really resonate with anyone in the same way that most of the others do. However, I think that the layouts for this park are definitely my pride and joy, as they really help all the areas come to life.

Thanks for the comments so far! Hope you've enjoyed the park!

Louis! Offline

BOUT FUCKING TIME BITCH

Sephiroth Offline

What's crazy to me is, looking back, how much life changed while watching this park. I mean seriously these projects are taking so much time it's insane. I'm not even going to make much comment on the park (sorry rob) because honestly to me the quality isn't even questionable. There are mountains of evidence that rob worked his tail off to meticulously perfect as much as he could within the object limit. And it paid off. It's gorgeous. Sublime. Amazing. Awe-inspiring. If you showed me screens of this back in 2003 or 2004 I would have passed out in amazement.

But that's not to say this type of achievement isn't coming at a high cost, which is why I find myself laughing at people who are nitpicking. I mean I could list the major events that happened in my life since this project first started and we'd have quite a lengthy list.

So.... yeah, we could argue all day about what should and shouldn't be in the park, and how voting should work, and all that. But at the the end of the day it's a wonder this park even exists at this quality level. Great job rob, and amazing dedication. It kind of makes me sad how little time it takes to look over parks that take so long to make. Thank you for sharing your years of hard work with us.

Stoksy Fan Offline

2 months late...bit embarrassing.

In retrospect I think I perhaps got a little over-excited about this release. Watching through the building process I can understand just how much work into finally finishing this as well as having to deal with the issues of the object limit, error trappers, and having to sacrifice so many things as a result.

BGA, as brilliant as I continue to think it is, is not without flaws, each individual area is arguably some of the best RCT we've ever seen on this site, but what I regret when voting and where I think I've learnt a lot more about why Starpointe, as the most obvious example, is so heavily lauded is re-viewability. Such that no matter how many times I look at it, it's just as good as the last time. When first looking at BGA I was overcome by the fact that it was finally finished, I knew how the park would look finished and once I opened it I saw exactly that; boom 100%, favourite park ever. But the more times I open this park the less I look at the individual areas and the more I look at things that aren't quite as detailed. For example, the transition into China, the area by the first turn out of Naga, some of the missing objects you find now and again, and the positioning of certain features.

The entrance is nuts, absolutely incredible. It's iconic, detailed, viewable, beautiful, and colourful. Literally everything you want to see in an entrance. Maybe a little cramped by the chairlift station if I were to nitpick, but overall flawlessly composed. However, you start to feel some of rushed/unfinishedness already (eg by the lakeside) which is a shame but at least you offered some consistency by cutting back in basically all areas instead of sacrificing a single area.

Sesame Street was such an interesting contrast to the somewhat muted colours of the entrance. Such vibrancy was perfect for a kids area. It's the kind of cramped chaos that perfectly reflects the feel and style of that type of area. Best theatre façade of all time (other than possibly DCA) I'd say.

I think that the transition between the theatre and the actual Chinese area suffered from a combination of lack of dense foliage (can't really be helped) in conjunction with the simplistic architecture. As I said about Westwinds, the single-levelled buildings are so difficult to detail, making it almost necessary for something else to look at/offset the lack of architectural detail. Perfect in a real-life sense, but the isometric view means I just see roof->foliage->blank land. For example looking at the area in front of the theatre from the angle as if I was leaving the area is flawless, but other angles show too much of the plain grass I think. The actual Chinese area brilliantly offsets single-level buildings with the lanterns and distance between buildings on either side of the path. Panda enclose is so, so good (as is the tiger enclosure but I'll get to that later).

Leaving China enters a bit of an ambiguous transition zone. Both the health centre and stables seem oddly located. A bit like how people commented on Extinction about the location of the visitor's centre and how it could have been more iconically placed, I think that I feel a similar way about these buildings. It appears shoehorned into that quite narrow (when including the building itself, maintenance path, and park access) area between the splash boats and Garuda. The stables are lovely, but the location is not ideal in my opinion.

Tibet is very nice. Shame that the peep population didn't distribute itself quite as evenly into the area by the Garuda splashdown + turnaround. The theatre is again quite well built. For some reason the amount of roof doesn't bother me nearly as much on this building, probably because it's contrasted so well by the surrounding architecture (in a style that shows a lot more of the wall details than say China). Seeing the immelmann looming over all the buildings, ugh, incredible!

India was a little unexpected. It's interesting that you appear to have chosen to represent almost the lush side of India as opposed to the hot, dry, dusty norm (of more populated areas) that people might be familiar with. The architecture is again, phenomenal, other than the slight excess of roof by the restrooms. Enough people have lauded the brilliance of Jagannath that I can't really add anything else. It's a brilliant layout, everyone knows that. The tiger enclosure is perfectly placed, excellently composed, and visible interaction (eg seeing peeps walking through the enclosed section) is icing on the cake. I actually think that the carousel is perhaps the weakest part of the area. It just doesn't quite seem to fit with the rest, something how the architecture has been composed doesn't flow with the rest of the surroundings I don't think. It doesn't feel as 'solid'(?) as everything else. Perhaps understandable because it's housing a carousel but it seemed slightly out of place.

The transition into Thailand needed something else on the other side of the bridge. It didn't need to be a flat (you already had that covered with the great custom flat on the other side) but I just felt that you extended the transition slightly longer than it needed to be. Even some sort of sign signifying what area you had just entered, or having a building in a similar style to the others of the area instead of the food/drink stand, may have been enough. The architecture is great, the coaster impressive, and the flume probably one of the best (if a little unfortunately bare in surroundings). Another incredible custom flat, although the trampoline (viewing the finished park as a whole) was probably unnecessary, at least in that particular area of the park as it didn't really fit that well I don't think.

The indoor section + queue path for Shinobi are so brilliant. There are times when I think the coaster almost interacts too much with the actual area, but then again how can you complain about too much interaction? It's a great coaster, and looking at the dive under the two bridges from the angle with Jagannath in the foreground is breathtaking.

The final area I am yet to talk about is Cambodia (South-East Asia/Rapids surrounding area). The stadium is probably the best I've ever seen. Simply for it's composition with respect to the surroundings; the supports and canvas awnings just fit so perfectly with the area, shame about the bird. RIP. If anything the Thai Twist custom flat is a little out of place, whether because of the actual ride type or positioning I'm not sure, but it just didn't seem to 'work' for me. In contrast is the perfection that is the river rapids. Finally someone includes theming elements that are not just foliage and rockwork and it makes the whole ride such an enjoyable section to look at, from the queue entrance, to the layering by the fallen tree, to the section of path overlooking the sunken turnaround.

It's a brilliant piece of RCT rob, it's satisfying from a keen follower of this project and a viewing perspective to finally see this finished. Is it the best park ever? Pretty darn close for me. Do I regret my 100% vote? A little bit. In retrospect I think there are enough things in this park that detract from what may constitute a "100% park." I think the more I look at it, the more I notice some unfortunate (and to be fair mostly unavoidable) problems I imagine brought on largely by the object limit. But that in no way suggests that this isn't an incredible, phenomenal, brilliant, beautiful piece of RCT that combines all of the things that make RCT and NE what it is; coasters tick, architecture tick, composition tick, innovation tick, foliage tick (for the most part). Please don't leave us rob, keep building something. And by something I mean DCA

nicman Fan Offline

Bush garden parks are know for there amazing scenery, so it would be hard to recreate one, but you just pulled it off. BTW: did it only take your 400 hours to make?

robbie92 Offline

Thanks for the comment, Stoksy. I always love reading feedback from someone who's seen the park throughout construction and has gone through the park like you did. I agree that the transitions between some areas weren't really as thought through as I hoped. In an ideal world, I would've loved to build this park a bit more spread out. One of the benefits for both of the real-life Busch parks is their general size; the areas are all pretty spread out, and it gives some room for some really nice natural transitions. For RCT, the map shrank to try to deal with the object limit and my general scope of construction, so the transitions between areas were made smaller in the process. However, I know that the object limit and my general desire to finish led me to neglect some areas that I was hoping to return to, like the Thailand/India transition or the China/Tibet transition.

Nicman, I assume it only was 400 hours or so. I tend to build in bursts, so I'd have times of really quick building punctuated by long periods of inactivity, so it took me four real-life years to complete this, but at an average of 100 RCT years/RL-year.

Seph, thank you so much for that comment! It really helped me realize how long this park has really been a part of my life and kept me tied to this community, even past just this iteration. BGA has been a concept of mine since I joined NE in 2008, and it was one of my first advertised parks (first one I actually themed), so this park really feels like a culmination of 8 years here at NE. Maybe that's why I feel so aimless on the site these days, because this huge weight has lifted. I guess it's onto the next project that'll take me four years .

Lotte Fan Offline

Hey Rob, where's Djinn at? 2016's almost over

Austin55 Fan Offline

Can't believe I voted this shit 100%. Definitely only 95.

robbie92 Offline

Hey Rob, where's Djinn at? 2016's almost over

Honestly, I'd rather attempt a 1980 version of this park instead of building even more on this map. No more object-culling!

Can't believe I voted this shit 100%. Definitely only 95.

It's an 80

robbie92 Offline

Looking back at this overview... I should reinstall RCT2, shouldn't I?

chorkiel Offline

Meh. Stop at your peak.

G Force Online

He peaked 3 years ago don't be silly.

Everyone knows that your RCT peak comes between 22 and 24, after that it's just a slow decline.

Just look at Kumba, or Geewhzz.

RWE Offline

You should install open and have a look into the server, when the next park will be started!

FredD Fan Offline

Looking back at this overview... I should reinstall RCT2, shouldn't I?

Yes please.

alex	100%	yes
Austin55	100%	yes
geewhzz	100%	yes
inthemanual	100%	yes
pierrot	100%	yes
Stoksy	100%	yes
disneylandian192	95%	yes
Louis!	95%	yes
][ntamin22	95%	yes
Poke	80%	yes
98.13%		100.00%

Park / Busch Gardens Asia

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