Park / NSpheres Empire
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15-December 04
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To deviate at the point of excess diversity doesn't do anything but make you elitist. To deviate in the face of such uniformity as seen here is actually needed.
don't mean to be hurtful or anything.
Evil, that is one of the best posts i've read.
ride6
we're peaceful. let us do what we want. why moan?
So please continue....its actually more interesting than any other thread atm.
But then this confuses me as well:
"Being derivative at the point of excess diversity doesn't do anything but make you elitist."
I'm trying to figure out what you meant but the word derivative throws me off. Derivative means lacking originality, or copying off of others. I kinda see how you would relate 'indie' to elitism, but I don't know that excess diversity is the reason. So yeah, I guess I have no idea what that statement means.
But I do feel Posix that you continue to misjudge what I'm trying to do with my parks and that makes me sad. Erwindale Forest was never an attempt to revolutionize anything. It was the next logical step for me from the work I had been doing. I guess the main difference is that I stopped trying to create things as they actually are and started trying to create things as I wish they were. To elaborate...
The realistic style comes from making recreations of real life parks. The more succesful 'recreationists' are the ones that found ways to go beyond the limits of what was included in the game. They started making custom flat rides that weren't included in the game. They used scenery in ways it wasn't intended. Joe Holland's Islands of Adventure was genius in that way. It wasn't just a great recreation, it was a great park because it expanded what everyone thought RCT was capable of. When I first started playing RCT, I mostly liked making recreations so I learned a lot of tricks for bending the rules of the game too. It wasn't about bending the rules though, it was about making the best recreation possible. Remember Nevis started out making reacreations too. Those custom supports were another way of making a better recreation. He could recreate the support structure in addition to the coaster track itself.
So at some point I just got bored with making traditional amusement parks. Probably because I spent like a year on Cedar Creek and almost as much time on Egyptopia. I got burnt out on making amusement parks. And really, too much of those big parks are just filler. There's a lot of generic trees and buildings spacing out what I would call the 'cool stuff'. So when it came to making mini parks, I just set out to cram as much cool stuff in there as I could. No filler. No pretty little buildings and trees that all look alike. No more B&M coasters. Only custom coasters were allowed. Every ride must be an event. It's not like I don't like the simple parks anymore, I just wanted to try my hand at something else for a change. And then what happened was, I never had time to make anything else. I really really wanted to make a garden park filled with lots of pretty flowers and charming little buildings. I still do. Just never had time for it. But take another look at Blood Island because buried underneath all of that theming, I think, is a very simple park. It's almost all trees and bushes and flowers and landscaping. If you take the coaster out of there, it's just a tropical island. No paths, no shops or stalls, no rides. Not even a park entrance. It's not a park, it's one big themed coaster. But like I said before, I didn't do that because I expected people to like it. Actually, I didn't. I did it because that was an idea that I could get excited about. It was something I hadn't seen before.
I've seen a lot of parks. A lot. Thousands probably. That's why I'm so jaded now. Why very few parks really excite me. These new RCT3 parks excite me. They're something entirely new. Uncharted territory.
Erwindale Forest, Cataclysm, Battlefield RCT, Blood Island. Maybe you still see those as gimmicks. Big trees, cranes, helicopters. I don't really care anymore what my place is in the NE pantheon. It was fun to get some attention, it always is, but that wasn't why I made them and it isn't what I like about them. I challenged myself with each one to do something I'd never done before. Something I'd never seen before. I didn't even think they were working out most of the time until they were almost done. And the H2H parks I'm working on now are the same way. They might work out, if they do they'll be great, or they might not. I don't build out of confidence I build out of fear and when it does work out and the thing is finally done, it's worth it when people out there love it. That isn't what gives them value though, what gives them value is the challenge. To you they're a bunch of gimmicks. Coaster hacks and sculptures slapped together to win votes and praise. They aren't that at all. They are little worlds I create to challenge myself.
Oh forget it. I can't really explain. All I'm really trying to say (and have been trying to say) is that every time someone posts a park or a coaster or something, it may be just another park to you but they put a lot of time and energy into it and to reject it as just another knockoff is pretty insensitive. You don't know what went into a park. Maybe it looks a lot like something else, but then maybe they never saw those other parks. In the search for 'good art' a lot of times people miss the point of what art is about anyway. It's sharing something of yourself with other people. And maybe those unoriginal parks aren't the product of a generation of clones, but rather a generation of brilliant artists still finding themselves.
Trying to create worlds, that's a whole new mentality. I guess it makes sense when I think about your modern age. Everything seemed to be like it's own little world, no it wasn't nessisarily complete. The combination of parks like Battlefield, Cataclysm and City of Dreams brought me to the full concept park known as Utopia City (concept name). Something that I thought up but would be so complicated and time consuming that I dare not attempt it. I can see what I wanted it to look like however I more than just doupt my ability to build it, I know with the crushing number combo of little time and lots of other rct related projects means that it might never get built. Will I relay the entrity of the idea? Maybe someday, however not today. I'm still clinging to the hope that I will find the time to build it myself.
Funny thing though, I completely forgot about the whole concept until just now. It's one of those things that I want to do but I don't. I mean I know it would be inceadible if I built it but I don't believe that it's what I want to build. That's what rct is, what you want to build. Not just what's great. Another project I hope to do and would recommend to every rct2 parkmaker is to go back to your roots and do a project with not custom sceanery, or play some LL. I've played a decent amount of LL recently and it really makes you apprieciate some of the little things in rct2. Like object stacking for example. In rct2 it's effortless but in LL it can take hours to complete something simple. Taking a step back helps me realize how impressive every park, mini, design, coaster, even flat is. The mere fact that the programer took the time to put all the pixels together to make recognizable objects is impressive. The fact that we've turned it into an art form is something that is almost hard to imagine. I'm sure Chris Sawer would either be impressed or insulted by our dedication and effort.
Rct is art and like art a large majority of it is commercial, in the sence that they're made for mass consuption by popular culture. The facts can't be escaped. It's those few that play the game without a care for glory or a worry about what others will think, those are the people that rise above. I used to care more about the glory than the form to get it. Now i couldn't give a damn whether or not I ever "break out". That doesn't matter to me anymore. This is an artistic hobby. Art is creativity, hobbies are recreational, so this is a form of creative recreation. To me that's what rct is. I believe that if all of NE's active rct-playing members would take a step back and ask what rct is for them then we might see creativtiy flurish again.
For me any form of rct is exceptible. Yes I enjoy certain forms over others however I do not believe skill can be accuratly judged based on style. Skill is the ability to create what you invision, creativity is the rest. If Posix or cg? are creating exactly what they saw in their minds then they're more skilled than I am. I create "about" what I invisioned, not entirely. If Posix manages to whole thing then he is truely skilled. Creativity is the choice of what to build and how unique it is. If you build a theme that everyone's done before but you do it completly differently then I would argue that you are extremily creative. Sorry to Posix if I insulted you in any way, I was just using you as an example. The reason I except all forms of rct is simple: in any hobby there is variation, take radio controled airplanes for example. Is somebody who builds and flys a 1/15th scale replica of a WWI biplane any less skilled then the person who builds 1/ 20th scale replica of a new F-22 raptor and flys it. Of course not, they are merely different. That's the beauty of art and hobbies, variation does not nessisarily mean better or worse dispite what "popular culture" leads us to believe.
Summery Basically rct is an artistic hobby where people create their own worlds. Their own visions, ideas and abilities come together to form an interactive peice of art. As with any hobby there are different forms none better than the others, even if certain types are well recieved while others aren't.
Excuse the unorganized mess of this thing. I was just letting the mental rivers flow and jumping into the boat to see where they go.
ride
Corkscrewed Offline
- I build to bring a dream or fantasy world that was formerly in my head onto finished production.
- I build for acclaim and praise.
- I build to experience the joy of making a theme park vicariously.
- I build because I have a thousand ideas.
- I build because I strive to be the best in everything; I'm a perfectionist; I want to be the best RCT 2 parkmaker ever.
- I build because it's a nice break from the stresses of real life sometimes.
- I build because it's fun.
That's the honest truth. I doubt many will agree with everything I put. Some will like the first part. Others the second part. And still others bits and pieces. And a few might reject all of it.
But hey, it's kept me going for five, going on six years now. Where others have dropped, I'm still going strong. I'm personally pretty proud of that, even if it's really a pretty stupid thing. But I also don't take things overly seriously.