H2H5 / A Statement for the teams/community.

Well... talk about a messed up state of affairs and i feel its getting out of hand.

I hope no one takes the following post the wrong way as i have great respect for everyone here as park makers and dont want to see anyone leave the community.

I can understand peoples stance on parks being beaten by what they consider inferior parks from another team. Both when we (the Elementalists) have lost and when other teams have won in other matchs.
However i cannot condone the behaviour and reactions of some people in this community. Again this applies to our team as much as some of the others and I'm honestly ashamed of the way some people have chosen to react.

Whichever ways match ups go people will be unhappy (apart from a forfeit) but that is no reason to lash out at other park makers or the community for their opinions. Sure in your eyes they may be inconsistant, biased or poorly grounded, But you are not going to do any good or change peoples opinions by abuse.

It is possible to change peoples opinions with a well grounded and explained argument, I changed my opinion on the Canyon park earlier in the season and regret not voting for it now. However this only occured after reading some of the other things people pointed out in their posts and not by the people who blasted me for my first post (and there were a few who did).

As far as I'm concerned this is analagous to a sport and some of us are being extremely unsportsmanly.

I still play this game for the fun of playing and yes i do build for some recognition too (Your probably lying if you say you dont) but these verbal scuffles are ruining this tournament for others.
I'm not saying dont debate things and dont state your opinions BUT i am saying be careful how you do it.

So i urge us as teams and a community to take a step back from this and think of the harm your doing to the community as a whole.

I may get flamed to death for this but i feel it had to be said as several topics recently have flared up. I have posted a version of this in my teams forum as well. I hope i haven't pissed anyone off too much and i have tried to refrain from using names but i hope you can see how this all looks from my eyes.

Thats all i have to say for now.

Well, it's certainly not "recently".. In my opinion it started with match 1 from round 1 where several people set the tone.. I don't think you can blame anyone, because as you said, it's about parks where its makers have put a lot of time and effort in and search for some recognition for it over here..

It rubs everyone the wrong way though, when someone calls them out (at least it works that way for me).. If someone calls me out, they can expect a reaction.. Simple as that, even if it's something like a contest on the internet for an old computer game.. If you think it's annoying that I respond in a topic to that, where you should be commenting on the parks, pointing things out, I think you can easily just scroll a bit down and ignore my post.. I usually like to argument my statements, but with some things people said it's really hard to word yourself properly.. I think more people on this site behave this way, and I think it's only natural to defend yourself..

I agree with you that I hope more people would choose their words with more care.. Maybe I'm guilty to this myself, if so please except my apologies..

In the end though, I think this is the best contest NE has seen in its history, despite the bitchfighting in the topics.. Some amazing parks have already been build and I personally love the activity here around NE.. Some really good new builders have emerged too, which is only good for NE's future..

SF

Don't apologize Roomie, I completely agree with you. And, as SF posted, it started VERY early on in the tournament. That's partly why I've shyed away from posting anything at all. (that, and I've rebuilt my laptop lately, and just barely reinstalled rct.)

Ye h2h has become pretty heated this time,possibly due to the fact that people dont know who built a park,so are willing to fully disagree with anything they dont like (since theres little to disrespect until the vote is over) only to be beaten down by the whole team.Ive actually stopped reading the threads for the parks since now the majority of the time there is nothing in there other than people debating 'the game' and everything to do with it rather than the actual park.

excellent post Roomie,
thats pretty much how ive felt.
as expressed in afew of the treads.

Thank you Roomie, I agree as well.

At first I told myself the bitchfights are normal and we've always seen them during H2H. But today when I came to the site, I was actually kinda worried things could get out of hand.

Several people including myself have made unnecessary posts out of bitterness. I apologize for my own. I guess it's better to just let those people realize how immature they're being rather than coming down on them as if it's personally offensive. The joke is still on them. Their park is losing.

I don't want to start anything with K0NG as that would be both immature and pathetically ironic...I have just observed that you've been in most of the bitchfights recently, and I have seen your point in all of them and have even agreed with some of them. But dude, you have a tendency to specifically look for things to take issue with in other people's posts. If we were having a discussion about piano and I made a long post about Beethoven in which I said he died in 1837, I feel like you would pick that out and say "no he died in 1827, which proves you don't know what the fuck you're talking about." Most people wouldn't take issue with the stuff you pick out. You may be pretty good at holding your own in arguments, but the fact that you seemingly need to argue with other people makes you look more insecure every time. It's a downward spiral. Whether or not you're right or not, you're losing stead all the time. You'd probably be a good lawyer in the future, but people don't register for an RCT forum because they want to be right about something. People are here to have fun. So please don't infringe upon that.

Edited by Panic, 08 June 2009 - 03:42 PM.

the obvious problem is that with the exception of 2-3 matches, everything has been pretty close quality wise. People have been building all kinds of cool shit and for the most part submitting finished parks. I think on some level people were expecting a h2h4 situation where a couple teams dominate based on inactivity or problems finishing and for the most part the matches were to be decided on who finished the most.

But then everything was thrown out the window when everyone started making awesome entries and had to start voting based on personal preference. Obviously some people are going to be upset based on other's reactions to their work or their final decisions based on their own preferences. Sadly in every match there has to be a loser no matter how they feel about it... and this is a situation they're going to feel screwed over by "the other side" whatever that might be (LL vs rct2 or realism vs fantasy).

I think some things have gotten pretty stupid though. The worst comes from members of a team mindlessly attacking another park just because they are angry at losing or just wanting to win a tight match. This idiotic propaganda is the stuff that's got to stop imo. Someone saying "Just look, they offer NOTHING new and NOTHING interesting and NO good rides and OUR park does everything theirs doesn't and even CURES CANCER" is so pointless to the subject of the parks. I don't mind people having their opinions either but when they get nasty just because they're feeling pissy about losing I think it's time to get your priorities straight.

Totally one sided comments toward a certain team irritate me as well... if you don't have something to say about both parks then shut the hell up.

Edited by Milo, 08 June 2009 - 03:50 PM.

Additionally, I think the rule that says it's forbidden to theorize who the parkmakers were is causing people to be passive-agressive. If you think SF did a certain building and you don't like the roof, you should be able to tell it to him straight instead of "well I've never liked any theming by guy who obviously built it but this is a new low," which is just cowardly. I think that's at least in part leading to some of the bitchfighting.

Edited by Panic, 08 June 2009 - 05:55 PM.

Ok, I'm not gonna 'expose' myself here too much, either literally or figuratively (literally would chase more people away from this forum than anyone could imagine) but, suffice it to say that I'm never as serious as most of you would believe me to be. And, I never attack anyone's ideas, style or the effort that everyone here puts forth. I might say that it's not my 'cup of tea' or that I prefer certain styles over others but, I never denigrate anyone's work. I'm not going to get into specifics here regarding any of my posts or any 'bitchfights' that I've been involved in. I'm just going to say that people should not always take me at face value. I know that some people realize this already. So, lighten up and have fun....life's too short to take everything so seriously. And, if you don't agree....well, I'm sure I'll read about it and go off on some profane rant to let you know my opinion.

^that read quite nice

The compliment sandwich might also be a problem I think. People point out the plus points of the winning parks to follow only directly with the bad points of the losing park which everyone is ultimately going to take more negatively. Rather than commenting on both ends of the spectrum on both parks (which let’s face it is pretty hard considering you are voting for a park you like more rather than analysing both with no outcome).
The fact that NE members have tried to actively literate themselves when posting may be the main problem, maybe everyone should try posting more often like they do on other forums 'looks good','wheres the download' etc etc
Btw thats not an actual suggestion

Major props to you Roomie.

That was very well put, and deffinatly touched on a ever increasing issue. I try to stay out of this stuff, because I've learned from experince, so sorry if I did anything. But yeah, this should just be about having fun and giving the RCT communite some great peices of work to look at. Many of these parks have inspirerd me to want to build some great things once this is done, and from all teams as well. That's what I love about this contest, all the parks are great to look at and give me insperation for futrue projects.

I agree with Milo. For example, given how H2H4 went, I thought our first match was going to be our awesome park versus a decent park from the Hurricanes, but it was instead our awesome park versus another very awesome park, and it really came down to the personal preferences of the voters, which is something that's hard to debate. It's like if you took two movie masterpieces (say, 'Star Wars IV' vs 'The Godfather'), had them released in theaters the same weekend, and only one of them could become financially successful. One would be rewarded and the other wouldn't, even though they were both great.

Also, I imagine the amount of time that it takes to make a park nowadays is making people more emotionally attached to their team's parks.

Good thing you said it, Roomie.

I noticed your spelling changes when you become serious.

Good thing you said it, Roomie.

I noticed your spelling changes when you become serious.

Thats because I'm not drunk...

Thats because I'm not drunk...

That's pretty unfortunate. Probably the most horrible thing brought up in this thread.

That's pretty unfortunate. Probably the most horrible thing brought up in this thread.

yes well it is rare... Back in the day i posted some pretty awful very very drunk posts

Anyway back on topic

I'm glad the first post was taken well. I agree that the contest so far has been of excellent calibre, park wise. I just hope we can keep it up without killing each other

I think the rule that says it's forbidden to theorize who the parkmakers were is causing people to be passive-agressive

I for one actually agree with this. I'm not a fan of this rule and think it gets rid of part of the fun. I can see why it was implemented but in reality it just shifts the conversation on to MSN.

I want to say sorry for calling you all idiots.

But you're still all retarded.

Duuuuuuuuuuh.

PS...the Elementalists aren't done yet, even though you voted down one of the greatest h2h parks ever (and I only say that about milo's part, haha).

-Sorry for kick-

I didn't check the dates, Casimir sent me here, blame him.

I miss Micool.